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everyone needs to chill..... things are not that bad

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Old
11-18-2009, 08:05 AM
  #1
offdacrossbar
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everyone needs to chill..... things are not that bad

ok, first off, relax.

look, this team has serious flaws but the caps are one of the best teams in the east. we didnt create much last night true, but its a 1 goal game till the very end really. and we played a pretty decent 3rd period considering.

everyone needs to chill though. we are a .500 type team and like them or not, we are missing 2 centerman and torts is trying to create something but so far, its not really working and the team is lacking cohesion.

i think we need to expect less short term. we need to beat the weaker teams and play smart, solid hockey against the better teams and see if hank can steal a few games until we get healthy. until that happens, i think we stay right around .500 and really, thats not terrible.

here are 2 things we need to do short term to maintain.

1. improve the pp. torts needs to remove callahan from the pp. hes a 3rd liner talent who really doesnt belong there. would prefer a guy like higgins or lisin over cally. higgins who does better board and work a better shot and lisin whos a better passer and has better wheels. neither are snipers really, but both i think work better than ryan. i understand why torts has him out there, right handed shot and good along the wall, but its not working.

2. reign in the defense. we are still giving up too many odd man rushes not just on blown coverage but neutral ice turnovers by our slow skating dmen. we need to help hank more. other than mdz and gilroy and even say redden, none of our other dmen belong anywhere near the cirlce in the ozone. a guy like staal isnt sure what he is right now, is he an offensive dman or a defensive dman. i say you tell marc staal, stay home, play it tough and make the safe pass. let mdz, gilroy and redden push the puck but guys like rozy and girardi and staal need to play defense first.

long term, this team needs a top centerman who can skate and a defenseman who can take rozys spot and play a solid, simple, rugged, stay at home game.

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11-18-2009, 08:08 AM
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Things are not good either...

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11-18-2009, 08:09 AM
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The caps aren't that special, especially without Ovechkin.

Their defense is pretty bad outside of Greene. They wont go far.

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11-18-2009, 08:29 AM
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Heres an interesting stat, tell me this means things are good?
Quote:
The Rangers went 19:20 without a shot on goal, spanning from 4:32 of the first period to 3:52 of the second.

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11-18-2009, 08:30 AM
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Yeah, I think this team is playing below it's actual talent level, and they're a better team than this recent stretch...but it falls on some players to actually play up to their ability.

Avery and Callahan especially have been playing like 4th liners. They're not really generating any scoring chances or any offense out there...they are guys the team needs to provide some offense and they're not doing it at all. Higgins is somewhat in the same boat, but I think he's been getting better chances. Same with Kotalik, who at least is getting shots on net...with him, and with his shot, that's the most you can hope for.

Lisin is another one that's failing to live up to expectations. He's gotta actually do something out there. He's fast. Woo. So far that's getting him and the team not much at all. His puck handling is poor, he doesn't get into scoring position, and he can't pass.

The defense...eh, they all need to step it up, but the forwards need to help them out too. The Rangers breakout has been mediocre since the lockout, and the defense rarely has a good play to make when they get the puck after pressure by the other team. Yeah, they go up the boards with it...because there's no forwards to help them out. The forwards are up at the blueline for some reason, or in front of the net, allowing the other team to get inside of them and pick off those up the board clears. THis has been going on since Renney, so I don't know . I watch other teams break the puck out and it looks organized, like everyone knows where to be. With the Rangers, it's scattershot, and it has been that way for years.

But yeah, some of it also is these guys needed to learn to play with each other. Like I said last night, they don't seem to know where their linemates will be, so the cycle doesn't get anywhere. They also lack players who can make plays with the puck, but that's a Sather problem to sort out.

They can play better, but they need to actually start doing it...some of these guys (Callahan, Avery, Lisin, to a lesser extent Higgins and Kotalik) need to step up into that secondary scoring role, and if they can't, they need to be moved for someone who can. This team doesn't need more fourth liners, and that's what some of these guys are playing like. I'm giving Anisimov a bit of a pass since he's a rookie, but now would be a great time for him to go "hey I scored 40 goals in the AHL, I should pop some in now too)

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Old
11-18-2009, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
ok, first off, relax.

until that happens, i think we stay right around .500 and really, thats not terrible.

.
when did having a maxed out salary cap and being a .500 team become described as anything BUT terrible? i guess i missed the memo.

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11-18-2009, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by GeorgeHamiltonsTan View Post
when did having a maxed out salary cap and being a .500 team become described as anything BUT terrible? i guess i missed the memo.
and there ya go...

its not a disaster, but how do they seriously compete against the Pens/Flyers/Caps when the team has flaws and few options to fix them...

Sather pulled the rabbit out of his hat turning Gomer into Gabby. But can he do that with Redden or Drury?

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11-18-2009, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Yeah, I think this team is playing below it's actual talent level, and they're a better team than this recent stretch...but it falls on some players to actually play up to their ability.

Avery and Callahan especially have been playing like 4th liners. They're not really generating any scoring chances or any offense out there...they are guys the team needs to provide some offense and they're not doing it at all. Higgins is somewhat in the same boat, but I think he's been getting better chances. Same with Kotalik, who at least is getting shots on net...with him, and with his shot, that's the most you can hope for.

Lisin is another one that's failing to live up to expectations. He's gotta actually do something out there. He's fast. Woo. So far that's getting him and the team not much at all. His puck handling is poor, he doesn't get into scoring position, and he can't pass.

The defense...eh, they all need to step it up, but the forwards need to help them out too. The Rangers breakout has been mediocre since the lockout, and the defense rarely has a good play to make when they get the puck after pressure by the other team. Yeah, they go up the boards with it...because there's no forwards to help them out. The forwards are up at the blueline for some reason, or in front of the net, allowing the other team to get inside of them and pick off those up the board clears. THis has been going on since Renney, so I don't know . I watch other teams break the puck out and it looks organized, like everyone knows where to be. With the Rangers, it's scattershot, and it has been that way for years.

But yeah, some of it also is these guys needed to learn to play with each other. Like I said last night, they don't seem to know where their linemates will be, so the cycle doesn't get anywhere. They also lack players who can make plays with the puck, but that's a Sather problem to sort out.

They can play better, but they need to actually start doing it...some of these guys (Callahan, Avery, Lisin, to a lesser extent Higgins and Kotalik) need to step up into that secondary scoring role, and if they can't, they need to be moved for someone who can. This team doesn't need more fourth liners, and that's what some of these guys are playing like. I'm giving Anisimov a bit of a pass since he's a rookie, but now would be a great time for him to go "hey I scored 40 goals in the AHL, I should pop some in now too)
Avery and Callahan are not goalscorers. They need someone to create offensive chances for them, the way they create them for others with their style of play. The same can be said about Higgins, and Lisin just looks like he doesn't belong anywhere near this league. He's pretty much useless if he isn't on a breakaway. Outside of Gaborik, Prospal, Del Zotto, and Dubinsky, no one on this team is capable of creating.

It's not their fault no one on this team is capable of passing the puck. And as long as we're paying superstar money to 3rd pairing defensemen and a 3rd line forward, we won't have anyone capable of setting up a play. So, as far as I'm concerned, very little has actually changed. We have four more seasons after this one of Lundqvist and Gaborik on their current contracts. Thankfully, we'll be spending 6.5 million on a bottom-pairing defenseman for all four of those seasons, too. That's a huge problem.

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11-18-2009, 09:24 AM
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Avery and Callahan are still 20 goal scorers (or close to it in Avery's case). My point isn't just that they aren't scoring goals, but that they're not even coming close to generating offense. Yes they'd play better with someone to get them the puck, but they're still playing under the ability level. Callahan especially looks like he's regressed...his very inconsistent on how effective his forechecking is. Sometimes it's great, sometimes it's not, but ultimately he looks like a fourth liner who's trying hard, not a former 20 goal scorer.

These guys are better players than what they're showing us. It's not just that they're not scoring goals, it's everything else as well.

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11-18-2009, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHamiltonsTan View Post
when did having a maxed out salary cap and being a .500 team become described as anything BUT terrible? i guess i missed the memo.
true.

but we are missing 2 fairly important centers and we all know this team will looks different come march.

we are better than we have played of late but not nearly as good as our hot start

until we get healthier and can make some moves, playing .500 hockey would be acceptable.

again, like usual, it comes down to just making the playoffs and making some late season moves to make us better. at that point, you ride hank and gaby as far as they will take you.

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11-18-2009, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Avery and Callahan are still 20 goal scorers (or close to it in Avery's case). My point isn't just that they aren't scoring goals, but that they're not even coming close to generating offense. Yes they'd play better with someone to get them the puck, but they're still playing under the ability level. Callahan especially looks like he's regressed...his very inconsistent on how effective his forechecking is. Sometimes it's great, sometimes it's not, but ultimately he looks like a fourth liner who's trying hard, not a former 20 goal scorer.

These guys are better players than what they're showing us. It's not just that they're not scoring goals, it's everything else as well.
Avery is a guy thats never scored 20 goals in a season, and until proven otherwise, Ryan Callahan is a guy that scored 20 goals one season and not yet a "20-goal scorer"

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11-18-2009, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Avery and Callahan are still 20 goal scorers (or close to it in Avery's case). My point isn't just that they aren't scoring goals, but that they're not even coming close to generating offense. Yes they'd play better with someone to get them the puck, but they're still playing under the ability level. Callahan especially looks like he's regressed...his very inconsistent on how effective his forechecking is. Sometimes it's great, sometimes it's not, but ultimately he looks like a fourth liner who's trying hard, not a former 20 goal scorer.

These guys are better players than what they're showing us. It's not just that they're not scoring goals, it's everything else as well.
They scored those goals playing with a playmaker. I agree that neither is playing perhaps as well as they did before, but I don't think the lack of scoring is on them. I wonder if Callahan isn't just gassed from playing all-out every single game of his career so far. Avery just looks like he's confused. I think he's lost sight of this supposed "line" that he can't cross. He's playing like he's been neutered.

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11-18-2009, 09:34 AM
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I assure you, things have been pretty bad the last month or so.

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11-18-2009, 09:46 AM
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things are only kinda bad.

the team played pretty well last night. its really touch to beat an elite team without your top 2 centers. overall, i still think our ceiling is the second round of the playoffs.

i'm still curious to see what's gonna happen with drury. the guy i sit next to said he saw him at his kid's game earlier in the week and that while he was gracious enough to sign anything, he looked like complete crap. so who knows what's gonna happen there.

a healthy drury would definitely help, the 7 mil in cap space would help a lot more.

may be time for slats to start kicking some tires. we could use a bit of a shakeup.

i'd love to see sanguinetti get a shot.

i think higgins looks great as the 3rd line center. it may be the perfect role for him.

lisin's 2 way game has been refreshing, but his offense has been lacking. hopefully he gets going soon, but i definitely am enjoying his effort on the other side of the puck. he made a great backcheck on ovechkin last night

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11-18-2009, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
They scored those goals playing with a playmaker. I agree that neither is playing perhaps as well as they did before, but I don't think the lack of scoring is on them. I wonder if Callahan isn't just gassed from playing all-out every single game of his career so far. Avery just looks like he's confused. I think he's lost sight of this supposed "line" that he can't cross. He's playing like he's been neutered.
Callahan didn't spend the entire season with Gomez...let's not pretend, here.

Why do we keep making excuses for these guys. They're not playing well. They look lost on offense. They constantly lose battles for the pucks. They never know where their linemates are, they themselves are out of position. They're just plain playing poorly on offense. But no, can't criticize these guys...

I'm not saying they have to do everything and singlehandidly provide all of the secondary scoring, but "Mr. Consistent" Ryan Callahan is on pace for a whopping 27 points this year.

They need to step up and do SOMETHING. Because all they're doing right now is blocking some shots and providing rest for Gaborik until he can get back on the ice and try to score.

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Old
11-18-2009, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Callahan didn't spend the entire season with Gomez...let's not pretend, here.

Why do we keep making excuses for these guys. They're not playing well. They look lost on offense. They constantly lose battles for the pucks. They never know where their linemates are, they themselves are out of position. They're just plain playing poorly on offense. But no, can't criticize these guys...

I'm not saying they have to do everything and singlehandidly provide all of the secondary scoring, but "Mr. Consistent" Ryan Callahan is on pace for a whopping 27 points this year.

They need to step up and do SOMETHING. Because all they're doing right now is blocking some shots and providing rest for Gaborik until he can get back on the ice and try to score.
Because Callahan and Avery are probably the 2 biggest "fan favorites" on the Rangers. In other words, they are bulletproof. In turn, overpaid guys like Drury or newbies like Higgins will suffer the "THEYRE DISAPPOINTING" rhetoric from the fanbase. Avery and Callahan will be defended at every turn, when in actuality, they are as guilty as anyone when it comes to fulfilling expectations.

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11-18-2009, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Because Callahan and Avery are probably the 2 biggest "fan favorites" on the Rangers. In other words, they are bulletproof. In turn, overpaid guys like Drury or newbies like Higgins will suffer the "THEYRE DISAPPOINTING" rhetoric from the fanbase. Avery and Callahan will be defended at every turn, when in actuality, they are as guilty as anyone when it comes to fulfilling expectations.
Exactly.

Look, as much as Redden isn't playing up to his contract, he's playing his position better than Callahan is playing his right now.

For all we want to ***** about Redden and Rozsival and Drury and whoever needing to step it up, we need these other guys like Avery and Callahan to step it up too.

Just ignoring the problem with "well so and so makes a bunch of money and that keeps the Rangers from acquiring another star player!" doesn't make it go away.

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11-18-2009, 09:59 AM
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I'm cool but on the same hand don't expect me to get too excited if we go on a hot streak.

At the end of the day we still have Gaborik. Anisimov, Grachev, Dubinsky, Del Zotto, Staal Gilroy, Sanguinetti and LUNDQVIST. (I'm not so sure we're going to be abe to re-sign Prospal). That's a hell of lot better future than we've had in a long time.


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11-18-2009, 10:01 AM
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ok, first off, relax.

look, this team has serious flaws but the caps are one of the best teams in the east. we didnt create much last night true, but its a 1 goal game till the very end really. and we played a pretty decent 3rd period considering.

everyone needs to chill though. we are a .500 type team and like them or not, we are missing 2 centerman and torts is trying to create something but so far, its not really working and the team is lacking cohesion.

i think we need to expect less short term. we need to beat the weaker teams and play smart, solid hockey against the better teams and see if hank can steal a few games until we get healthy. until that happens, i think we stay right around .500 and really, thats not terrible.

here are 2 things we need to do short term to maintain.

1. improve the pp. torts needs to remove callahan from the pp. hes a 3rd liner talent who really doesnt belong there. would prefer a guy like higgins or lisin over cally. higgins who does better board and work a better shot and lisin whos a better passer and has better wheels. neither are snipers really, but both i think work better than ryan. i understand why torts has him out there, right handed shot and good along the wall, but its not working.

2. reign in the defense. we are still giving up too many odd man rushes not just on blown coverage but neutral ice turnovers by our slow skating dmen. we need to help hank more. other than mdz and gilroy and even say redden, none of our other dmen belong anywhere near the cirlce in the ozone. a guy like staal isnt sure what he is right now, is he an offensive dman or a defensive dman. i say you tell marc staal, stay home, play it tough and make the safe pass. let mdz, gilroy and redden push the puck but guys like rozy and girardi and staal need to play defense first.

long term, this team needs a top centerman who can skate and a defenseman who can take rozys spot and play a solid, simple, rugged, stay at home game.
i hardly find myself agreeing with your posts but i feel like i have to commend you for this one

you are spot on about where this team is right now and about cally on the power play....also, you presented everything initelligently which is a nice change of pace around here, especially when the team is in a slump

however, i slightly disagree with you about the defensemen....they certainlly aren't great, but i feel that the forwards share some of the blame for the neutal zone turnovers....from what i've seen, their positioning in some situations forces the defensemen to make very risky passes or to make moves one on one with a forechecker. That explains why you don't see guys like Del zotto turning it over too much becasue he's actually capable of completing impossible passes that a lot of players in the league can not


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11-18-2009, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Yeah, I think this team is playing below it's actual talent level, and they're a better team than this recent stretch...but it falls on some players to actually play up to their ability.

Avery and Callahan especially have been playing like 4th liners. They're not really generating any scoring chances or any offense out there...they are guys the team needs to provide some offense and they're not doing it at all. Higgins is somewhat in the same boat, but I think he's been getting better chances. Same with Kotalik, who at least is getting shots on net...with him, and with his shot, that's the most you can hope for.

Lisin is another one that's failing to live up to expectations. He's gotta actually do something out there. He's fast. Woo. So far that's getting him and the team not much at all. His puck handling is poor, he doesn't get into scoring position, and he can't pass.

The defense...eh, they all need to step it up, but the forwards need to help them out too. The Rangers breakout has been mediocre since the lockout, and the defense rarely has a good play to make when they get the puck after pressure by the other team. Yeah, they go up the boards with it...because there's no forwards to help them out. The forwards are up at the blueline for some reason, or in front of the net, allowing the other team to get inside of them and pick off those up the board clears. THis has been going on since Renney, so I don't know . I watch other teams break the puck out and it looks organized, like everyone knows where to be. With the Rangers, it's scattershot, and it has been that way for years.

But yeah, some of it also is these guys needed to learn to play with each other. Like I said last night, they don't seem to know where their linemates will be, so the cycle doesn't get anywhere. They also lack players who can make plays with the puck, but that's a Sather problem to sort out.

They can play better, but they need to actually start doing it...some of these guys (Callahan, Avery, Lisin, to a lesser extent Higgins and Kotalik) need to step up into that secondary scoring role, and if they can't, they need to be moved for someone who can. This team doesn't need more fourth liners, and that's what some of these guys are playing like. I'm giving Anisimov a bit of a pass since he's a rookie, but now would be a great time for him to go "hey I scored 40 goals in the AHL, I should pop some in now too)
while im not going to agree with your statement, i will say that im disappointed in lisins offensive game. i agree hes not getting into scoring position, but i think thats because hes being way more defensively aware and always looking not to lose his man or get caught. hes playing cautious hockey and thats a good team thing but isnt helping him score points. and hes pressing- like everyone else at this point.

it seems that what ever torts did to him worked- too well. hes forgotten how to handle the puck and shoot it on net. he looks like hes over thinking and not letting the game come to him.

at the same time, every one of the concerns he came with, poor defensively, does not back check, not good in the corners, and is one dimensional seems to have changed to... he has a poor shot, hass no offensive pressure and not overly creative.

from what ive seen he takes the body plenty, he certainly hustles, he backchecks, he goes after pucks in the corner, he wins battles and he gets back to cover for any dman who goes deep. and one more thing, he never ever over stays a shift so he shows good awareness there. he goes about his business in a professional way playing a 2 way game but still seems to be missing something offensively.

its funny, hes no where near what i expected he would be offensively, yet hes worlds better than i though he would be without the puck.

eventually, his offense will come once he relaxes and gets a few to go in.

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11-18-2009, 10:17 AM
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Not one player on this squad is performing (save for those named Lundqvist, Gaborik, MDZ & Prospal).

The blame falls on every other player. Inluding the injured ones who were just as crap-tastic prior to getting hurt as the rest are now.

Things aren't that bad? You gotta be kidding me! They win one and lose 3... that's not gonna be .500 hockey for long.

The last time I checked .500 hockey doesn't get you into the post-season.

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11-18-2009, 10:22 AM
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From an outside POV, the Rangers have two elite players (Hank/Gaborik) and the rest are 3rd/4th liners. Your defense has some up and comers but will struggle. Crazy as it sounds I think it's likely that they'll be battling with the Isles for the 5th spot in the Division.

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11-18-2009, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
while im not going to agree with your statement, i will say that im disappointed in lisins offensive game. i agree hes not getting into scoring position, but i think thats because hes being way more defensively aware and always looking not to lose his man or get caught. hes playing cautious hockey and thats a good team thing but isnt helping him score points. and hes pressing- like everyone else at this point.

it seems that what ever torts did to him worked- too well. hes forgotten how to handle the puck and shoot it on net. he looks like hes over thinking and not letting the game come to him.

at the same time, every one of the concerns he came with, poor defensively, does not back check, not good in the corners, and is one dimensional seems to have changed to... he has a poor shot, hass no offensive pressure and not overly creative.

from what ive seen he takes the body plenty, he certainly hustles, he backchecks, he goes after pucks in the corner, he wins battles and he gets back to cover for any dman who goes deep. and one more thing, he never ever over stays a shift so he shows good awareness there. he goes about his business in a professional way playing a 2 way game but still seems to be missing something offensively.

its funny, hes no where near what i expected he would be offensively, yet hes worlds better than i though he would be without the puck.

eventually, his offense will come once he relaxes and gets a few to go in.
Sorry, but another one of your Lisin excuses is being debunked before our very eyes.

Hes not on this team to play particularly well away from the puck. Tortorella wanted to make sure he was at least capable on the defensive side, and he has been to an extent. This team needs offense, and Lisin is supposed to provide some, so lets not expand on the myth that hes "playing cautious" on the offensive end in a Tortorella system, OK?

Every game, I watch him use his speed, make a good play or even two, but continiously fail to finish off a good play by either burying a goal or dishing off to a teammate. He ALWAYS screws it up one way or another.

I think its the time is nearing where you'll have to admit that Enver Lisin is just not as talented as you thought.

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Old
11-18-2009, 10:26 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Avery and Callahan are not goalscorers. They need someone to create offensive chances for them, the way they create them for others with their style of play. The same can be said about Higgins, and Lisin just looks like he doesn't belong anywhere near this league. He's pretty much useless if he isn't on a breakaway. Outside of Gaborik, Prospal, Del Zotto, and Dubinsky, no one on this team is capable of creating.

It's not their fault no one on this team is capable of passing the puck. And as long as we're paying superstar money to 3rd pairing defensemen and a 3rd line forward, we won't have anyone capable of setting up a play. So, as far as I'm concerned, very little has actually changed. We have four more seasons after this one of Lundqvist and Gaborik on their current contracts. Thankfully, we'll be spending 6.5 million on a bottom-pairing defenseman for all four of those seasons, too. That's a huge problem.
Yes. Our best d-man is a bottom pairing d-man. What are the rest of the players? Minor leaguers?

Give me a break, Sting. I figured you'd lose your bias by now. Sad.

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Old
11-18-2009, 10:34 AM
  #25
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things are not that bad?

we are 4-8-1 since our 7 game winning streak.

Not only that, but we look like **** on most nights.

OK every so often they play a period of hockey that looks like they have the ability to dominate teams, but rarely is it 2 period in a row, nor have we seen them play a complete game (win or lose) they way they did against the Ducks.

Things are worse than you make them out to be.


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