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Should the Isles get involved in bidding for Filatov?

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Old
11-19-2009, 11:38 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
If we could land Filatov and he grew into a Pavel Datsyuk type......amazing. I'd say we could 100% dedicate our time to building the defense after that. Like Tavares, he's a home run. You pop fly out a lot, but you get that home run and you have something special, rather than runners stranded on base like we always end up with (Okposo was a fine triple).
If it takes a first and......we do it.
NO. NO. NO.

How many times have we tried quick fixes and they have back fired? It is going to take a lot to get him and he (IMO) has proved that he does not want to do what the coach wants. If he does not want to work in a deffensive system now, why would he ever be a Datsyuk type.

Lets not trade 1st round picks unless we are on the brink of winning the cup. 1st round picks at any level are very important. Look at the Devils. When was the last time they picked in the top 20?

LETS DO THIS THE RIGHT WAY. STAY ON COURSE!!!!!!!!!

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11-19-2009, 11:43 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Moooose444 View Post
I am not saying get rid of Moulson. He can play with Bailey or Frans but a potential line with Filatov-JT-KO would be nasty.

I actually think it was kinda smart by the Blue Jackets. They don't have a top 6 spot for him. This kid needs to be playing not watching from the press box. Will he really gain that much dominating the AHL for another year.
If he improves his game in all three zones and grows up, yes. The KHL is better, though. His confidence goes up, he grows more mass, he improves his shot/passing/positioning......who knows?



Datsyuk came in after 2001, having been drafted in 1998. That's three years to put on weight and grow his game and now, he has 4 Lady Bings, was a Hart finalist, won two Selke's.....what if we drafted him and put him right out on the ice in 1998 or 1999? (and the Wings do this with every prospect, waiting for 100% readiness)

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11-19-2009, 11:52 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I don't see how what he did was "me first".

He asked the management and got their input.

He didnt like a system in which a 19 year old wasnt handed top playing time and was instead asked to be as good on his defensive game as his offensive. Instead of working so that his all around play was good enough that he would be considered for top line duty, he asked to flee back to Russia where his pond hockey skills would be tolerated. Just because he asked doesn't make it ok.

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11-19-2009, 11:56 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
If he improves his game in all three zones and grows up, yes. The KHL is better, though. His confidence goes up, he grows more mass, he improves his shot/passing/positioning......who knows?



Datsyuk came in after 2001, having been drafted in 1998. That's three years to put on weight and grow his game and now, he has 4 Lady Bings, was a Hart finalist, won two Selke's.....what if we drafted him and put him right out on the ice in 1998 or 1999? (and the Wings do this with every prospect, waiting for 100% readiness)
Plus, Datsyuk was soft and one dimensional early on. I was non impressed with him at all, it took him several years to mature into the player he is today. I can still remember pre-lockout many Wings fans calling for him to be traded because he was devoid of any grit. Doesn't mean Filatov will follow suit, but I think the Datsyuk comparison as a hopeful is apt in this case.

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11-19-2009, 12:00 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Hipster Doofus View Post
Plus, Datsyuk was soft and one dimensional early on. I was non impressed with him at all, it took him several years to mature into the player he is today. I can still remember pre-lockout many Wings fans calling for him to be traded because he was devoid of any grit. Doesn't mean Filatov will follow suit, but I think the Datsyuk comparison as a hopeful is apt in this case.
Just some very similar "negatives" from day one, starting with his size.

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11-19-2009, 12:01 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
If he improves his game in all three zones and grows up, yes. The KHL is better, though. His confidence goes up, he grows more mass, he improves his shot/passing/positioning......who knows?



Datsyuk came in after 2001, having been drafted in 1998. That's three years to put on weight and grow his game and now, he has 4 Lady Bings, was a Hart finalist, won two Selke's.....what if we drafted him and put him right out on the ice in 1998 or 1999? (and the Wings do this with every prospect, waiting for 100% readiness)
Datsyuk was drafted 171st. Filatov 6th. Expectations are much loftier when you're at the head of the draft pack. Moreover, a player drafted 171st is expected to take a few years to develop, if at all.

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11-19-2009, 12:02 PM
  #32
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Part of the knock on Bailey is that he doesn't have anyone to pass to.

Filatov could solve that.

*could*

He's supposedly upset with the defense first system of the Jackets.

I don't think Flash has a defense first system.

So...should we?

How much is too much to give up?

What would CBJ want?

2nd rounder in next year and a prospect I can't think of?
I would love to see him on the Isles, I was hoping we were going to draft him in 2008. I think him and Tavares would have been a great combo. That being said, despite being sent home, I don't think we have the right combo to get him from Columbus, nor do I think they are anywhere near ready to give up on him. he's a great prospect, AND only 19 years old. Too early to give up on him.

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11-19-2009, 12:09 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by jrattzinger View Post
Datsyuk was drafted 171st. Filatov 6th. Expectations are much loftier when you're at the head of the draft pack. Moreover, a player drafted 171st is expected to take a few years to develop, if at all.
Or in another direction, he should in theory be more polished skill wise, and if time is invested into him could have a higher upside.

Personally I wouldn't give up to much for him. The Russian threat is scary for a team like us, we can't afford to give up assets for a guy who has not accomplished anything and may bolt if things don't go his way. Not that I would't be interested, just very cautious.

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Old
11-19-2009, 12:12 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrattzinger View Post
Datsyuk was drafted 171st. Filatov 6th. Expectations are much loftier when you're at the head of the draft pack. Moreover, a player drafted 171st is expected to take a few years to develop, if at all.
Datsyuk held similar regard in an age where the size was a MAJOR negative. Datsuk proved critics wrong and analists weighed the weight issue far less when a player compared to Datsyuk was available.



If Datsyuk was drafted 6th, Detroit would still leave him alone and thus, their success with their prospects. Pushing a kid because of his draft ranking rather than his readiness......a recipe for mediocrity we are quite fond of. CBJ rushed the kid, but now are acting the wiser. Right now, the Isles fans want Bailey demoted to grow better, CBJ wants Filatov to grow abroad and Detroit.....just never seems to have these problems (except in net because they cannot get young goalies to succeed - their goalie coach is incompetent).


Perhaps the "rules" should be rewritten regarding how soon a player is "ready" based on arbitrary ranking data alone.

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11-19-2009, 12:15 PM
  #35
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Back to the OP--what bidding? Has CBJ put him on the trading block? Or do they intend to keep him and try to develop him properly?

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11-19-2009, 12:24 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by BJo View Post
Moulson and Tavares are clicking on all cylinders right now and you want to break them up for a 19 year old who just fled to Russia? Cmon. We have a good thing going right now. There is no guarantee Filatov's "raw skill" would even click with JT. JT isn't even playing with KO anymore. He's actually put up his best production on a line with MM and Park, no?
Yes they are clicking on all cylinders right now but I looking towards the future. Even if you wanted to split them up it would give the Isles two legimate scoring threats going foward.

Also considering its supposed to be a weak draft and hopefully the Isles aren't picking early, it really isnt sacrificing too much. Bringing in another 19 yr old is not a quick fix.

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11-19-2009, 12:24 PM
  #37
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There is absolutely no shot this happens.

And the idea of trading this year's first rounder is laughable. No shot that happens, either.

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11-19-2009, 12:29 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Moooose444 View Post
Yes they are clicking on all cylinders right now but I looking towards the future. Even if you wanted to split them up it would give the Isles two legimate scoring threats going foward.

Also considering its supposed to be a weak draft and hopefully the Isles aren't picking early, it really isnt sacrificing too much. Bringing in another 19 yr old is not a quick fix.
iiiiimmm pretty sure this is a strong draft, VERY top heavy. NEXT year is supposed to be one of the weakest drafts in quite some time.

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11-19-2009, 12:34 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BJo View Post
Moulson and Tavares are clicking on all cylinders right now and you want to break them up for a 19 year old who just fled to Russia? Cmon. We have a good thing going right now. There is no guarantee Filatov's "raw skill" would even click with JT. JT isn't even playing with KO anymore. He's actually put up his best production on a line with MM and Park, no?
BJo what is the point of being an Islander fan if we don't have to suffer? Moulson and Tavares succeeding goes against every thing that us Isle fans stand for. We might as well take on another problematic Russian that can use the KHL as a bargaining chip (if you don't think he is problematic, I don't see Bailey causing any problems.)

Oh and Yahoo has him listed as 175 pounds....********. That guy weighed under 150 going into the draft and I bet he doesn't weigh more than 160 right now. 175 pounds is worrisome for me, much less what his real weight is.

I would love to have prospects of Filatov's caliber, but he is not going to be worth the price of the assets we would have to give up.

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11-19-2009, 12:42 PM
  #40
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Despite the past draft and any trading down issues - has anyone here seen Filatov play? in the AHL perhaps?

I'm curious to know what his challenges are at the AHL and/or NHL level.
He's obviously skilled, speed, dynamic offensively and I assume he's not physical and probably not reliable defensively as yet. I know he's also small.

I don't suspect his upside is questioned at all at this stage. The fact that he bolted to the KHL is not really a concern (without truly knowing all the specifics) but if this kid is truly projected to be the star he's supposed to be, then he'll fetch a much better return than a 2nd rounder and a mid-level prospect.

I don't think Columbus is going to trade him. I believe they'll work things out with him - especially if they still believe he's the player they drafted.

If NOT, then I'd want to be sure the pro-scouts have seen enough of him at the AHL level to think he can still project to be an effective NHL player. We've seen a lot of talented Russian players (not to stereotype or to single out Filatov) not achieve their high expectations - can't be too careful, especially when there are assets to give up.

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Old
11-19-2009, 12:46 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
If Datsyuk was drafted 6th, Detroit would still leave him alone and thus, their success with their prospects. Pushing a kid because of his draft ranking rather than his readiness......a recipe for mediocrity we are quite fond of.
IMO, Filatov still would have come to North America. I agree that Detroit probably wouldn't have him in the NHL right now... they'd probably want him in the AHL. But, if you read between the lines, it's implied that Filatov would have more or less refused an AHL assignment at this point, thus the loan.

I disagree that he's been rushed. Most of his problem with the Blue Jackets seems to stem from the fact that he isn't being rushed and that he wants top 6 minutes right now.

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Old
11-19-2009, 01:13 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Richie Daggers Crime View Post
IMO, Filatov still would have come to North America. I agree that Detroit probably wouldn't have him in the NHL right now... they'd probably want him in the AHL. But, if you read between the lines, it's implied that Filatov would have more or less refused an AHL assignment at this point, thus the loan.

I disagree that he's been rushed. Most of his problem with the Blue Jackets seems to stem from the fact that he isn't being rushed and that he wants top 6 minutes right now.
For the record, they leave the European kids in Europe, as they did with Franzen, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Holmstrom, etc. When they get close, like Darren Helm, they go to the NHL. "Close" meaning they'd nbe in 75% of the NHL's lineups months earlier.



I envy their patience. The proof is the way they all click on the ice.

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11-19-2009, 01:15 PM
  #43
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No to the question.

And I believe if Snow ever had even the remote bit of real interest in him, he'd not have done what he did in 08 when he was sitting in our lap.


Last edited by Chapin Landvogt: 11-19-2009 at 01:27 PM.
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Old
11-19-2009, 01:27 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
For the record, they leave the European kids in Europe
Understood, and I'm not trying to make a statement about Det, but more about Filatov. He was fairly insistent about coming to NA to play. He can play in the AHL, like NA players do when they're not developed yet. Europe in and of itself isn't better or worse than the developmental leagues in NA. The only difference is the side of the planet they happen to be standing on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
When they get close, like Darren Helm, they go to the NHL. "Close" meaning they'd nbe in 75% of the NHL's lineups months earlier.
Right. IMO, since Filatov is here in NA, he's no different than Darren Helm, in least in terms of how to be treated in terms of development. But, Helm has spent a couple seasons in the AHL. Filatov, like I said, seems to be implying that he'd refuse AHL assignment. Again, I don't see the rushing.

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11-19-2009, 01:38 PM
  #45
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iiiiimmm pretty sure this is a strong draft, VERY top heavy. NEXT year is supposed to be one of the weakest drafts in quite some time.
Top heavy doesnt mean the draft if strong. If the Isles are still hovering around the playoffs by the deadline they won't pick in the top of the draft and this pick is less valuable. They could get a top 5 talent for say the 16th pick and a 2nd. He will almost be closer to playing because he will be 20 compared to the 18 yr old we would've drafted.

Also them trading down doesn't mean the didn't want him necessarily. They just felt they need to restock the prospect pool and they did that.

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11-19-2009, 02:03 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by The Invisible Poster View Post
What would CBJ want?

2nd rounder in next year and a prospect I can't think of?
It would take alot more than a 2nd & a prospect to get him to say the least.

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11-19-2009, 02:36 PM
  #47
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"Should the Isles get involved in bidding for Filatov?"

Well, if you acquire Filatov now, better find a coach who doesn't demand strong five on five play before he hands out icetime. Otherwise the quitter will quit on NYI, too.

Thankfully, seems like one has to earn icetime on Long Island these day (see: Tambellini, Comeau and Boy Rob). The days of Yashin, Chow, Kvasha and other one-way losers is over. (Hence the "rebuild", even if a few fans don't appreciate that KEY point.)

One has little doubt (or at least hope) that Filatov will grow up and get it and become worthy of top six icetime someday in the NHL. One also does not doubt that no coach worth a dime will give it to him pbefore he demonstrates such. If he didn't have the patience beyond the first seven weeks of this season with Columbus, why would he have it on Long Island?

And why would a franchise seeking higher standards want to take on that risk and lack of character? You want people who take on challenges, not fecklessly walk away from them.

Get away from the niiice stats, the hiiiiiiighlights skills, and his Date of Birth...and you see a lack of spine. Some fans of this team clearly still pine for these types of exciting!, unreliable types. Not me. More important, not the coach. It's why Boy Rob sits and sits and sits....

Prediction: Filatov grows up and ultimately gets another shot in Columbus. Fans may dream otherwise, but franchises do not panic and feel obliged to trade players simply because their teenagers act like...teenagers. They instead invest, time money and patience in their development. Filatov at 23 hopefully will be a different person, a different player, than he is at 19.

This is not a player that a team like NYI need take on. And this is not a player whom the CBJ need move at this time. They'll let him enjoy his time in Siberia and see if he is NHL-worthy next year.

Sorry. I hate very few things. However, I do hate quitters, and those who believe that opportunity should be handed to them.


Last edited by Trottier: 11-21-2009 at 01:11 PM.
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Old
11-19-2009, 03:15 PM
  #48
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of course its worth looking into

I just dont see a fit that suits the jackets needs

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11-19-2009, 03:16 PM
  #49
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Not sure about Filatov...he is still very young and perhaps to much of a Project.

Perhaps Fabian Brunnstrom of the Stars might be a better choice if Snow even is looking since the team is playing so well.

Brunnstrom is sitting in the 5th position LW behind Neal, Eriksson, Morrow, and Brenn
Rumor has it Brunnstrom might be on the block.

6'2" 212lbs From Sweden and is 24 years old....a bit of a high price tag @ 2.225mill

last year he had 17 goals and 12 helpers

Bergy and Brunnstrom are left wingers we could build on.

Perhaps Comeau and a 4th rd pick could get it done....not sure what The Stars might be looking for. Thoughts on Brunnstrom


Last edited by Otto91: 11-19-2009 at 03:32 PM.
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11-19-2009, 03:22 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
"Should the Isles get involved in bidding for Filatov?"

Well, if you acquires Filatov now, better find a coach who doesn't demand strong five on five play before he hands out icetime. Otherwise the quitter will quit on NYI, too.

Thankfully, seems like one has to earn icetime on Long Island these day (see: Tambellini, Comeau and Boy Rob). The days of Yashin, Chow, Kvasha and other one-way losers over. (Hence the "rebuild", even if a few fans don't appreciate that KEY point.)

One has little doubt (or at least hope) that Filatov will grow up and get it and become worthy of top six icetime someday in the NHL. One also does not doubt that no coach worth a dime will give it to him pbefore he demonstrates such. If he didn't have the patience beyond the first seven weeks of this season with Columbus, why would he have it on Long Island?

And why would a franchise seeking higher standards want to take on that risk and lack of character? You want people who take on challenges, not fecklessly walk away from them.

Get away from the niiice stats, the hiiiiiiighlights skills, and his Date of Birth...and you see a lack of spine. Some fans of this team clearly still pine for these types of exciting!, unreliable types. Not me. More important, not the coach. It's why Boy Rob sits and sits and sits....

Prediction: Filatov grows up and ultimately gets another shot in Columbus. Fans may dream otherwise, but franchises do not panic and feel obliged to trade players simply because their teenagers act like...teenagers. They instead invest, time money and patience in their development. Filatov at 23 hopefully will be a different person, a different player, than he is at 19.

This is not a player that a team like NYI need take on. And this is not a player whom the CBJ need move at this time. They'll let him enjoy his time in Siberia and see if he is NHL-worthy next year.

Sorry. I hate very few things. However, I do hate quitters, and those who believe that opportunity should be handed to them.
Agreed on most points with the exception of the prediction. Whole situation is ugly, but the fact that he's going to be handed a lot of money ($875k tax free vs. $65k in the AHL?) in the KHL without having proven anything scares me. Maybe the kid will prove me wrong, but running away from a tough situation and being rewarded for it in the process doesn't strike me as the ideal "reality check" type of situation.

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