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Pat Quinn understands the Oilers, but do the players understand him?

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Old
11-19-2009, 11:03 PM
  #26
Tedi
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
All I predicted for Smyth was 30-35 goals. Still sounds reasonable.

The Oilers need far more than "leadership faces".

They need skill, size, defensive ability and leadership.

An extreme makeover is still called for.
Maybe not nearly as reasonable as when you had your full gloat on, I still don't think he'll touch 30. I'd agree with size, defense and leadership as far as the makeover goes. I was wrong about alot of players this year for the Oilers, I thought Horc would rebound, I thought Moreau would have a strong season and I thought Pisano would finally get it going again. These 3 players should have had much larger roles this year and they have been virtually non existent.

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11-19-2009, 11:11 PM
  #27
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Interesting thread, thanks.

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Old
11-19-2009, 11:22 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Bingo. He has no whipping boy, he calls it as he sees it, whether it be veterans, or rooks. Interesting that he cushioned the comments on Gilbert by spreading the blame. Not only that but he is straight to the point and specific. Looks like we have as good a coach as we could ask for. Now we need a gm that is on the same level.
We do. Well, sort of: He's working behind the bench at the moment and is a little busy teaching fancy-dan kids how to become men.

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11-19-2009, 11:23 PM
  #29
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Actually the Oilers season so far is typical of a team on the rise. Scoring a lot of goals but letting a lot in.

Brule coming into his own, Sullivan creating offence, Penner turning into a premier power forward, etc, etc.

They don't need full rebuild or anything else, they just need to stay the course.

If need be dump a few contracts in the minors. Ex Nilsson.

Defence is a problem but that can be taught!


Last edited by hockeyaddict101: 11-19-2009 at 11:37 PM.
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Old
11-19-2009, 11:34 PM
  #30
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I really think that the Oilers have been slipping away from their early season play ever since the injuries to Stone and Jacques.

With a healthy lineup, this team plays much more consistently IMHO.


Penner-Gagner-O'Sullivan
Potulny-Brule-Hemsky
Cogliano-Horcoff-Pisani
Moreau-Comrie-Stone

Souray-Gilbert
Smid-Visnovsky
Grebeshkov-Staios

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Old
11-19-2009, 11:49 PM
  #31
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It bugs me that the Oil can't win the 3-1 and 2-1 games. They can score when everything is clicking but watching this team... I just can't see the opposition being held to 1 goal. And that's not an indictment on the goaltenders either considering that Khabibulin is 2nd in the league in saves.

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Old
11-19-2009, 11:56 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
Actually the Oilers season so far is typical of a team on the rise. Scoring a lot of goals but letting a lot in.

Brule coming into his own, Sullivan creating offence, Penner turning into a premier power forward, etc, etc.

They don't need full rebuild or anything else, they just need to stay the course.

If need be dump a few contracts in the minors. Ex Nilsson.

Defence is a problem but that can be taught!
Hooey.

They are 14th in G/G (9th in the WC) and 24th in GA/G.

Staying that course, even if you get GA to league average will get you a 9th-12th place finish when your special teams are 12th and 20th.

That's the definition of mediocre.

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11-19-2009, 11:59 PM
  #33
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A team on the rise.. haha, gimme a break. Isn't it clear to see the talent isn't there?

They need at least 1 more big, skilled body in their top six and the bottom six requires a major overhaul. I don't think it's as bad as some may like to think, given their drafting record I'm pretty confident they can get it together...

Trades need to happen though, small guys need to go, I don't care how skilled they are. Players are the problem, not the coaching.

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Old
11-20-2009, 12:00 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
Hooey.

They are 14th in G/G (9th in the WC) and 24th in GA/G.

Staying that course, even if you get GA to league average will get you a 9th-12th place finish when your special teams are 12th and 20th.

That's the definition of mediocre.
I definitely think that the PK's slumping has something to do with all the injuries. So I'm hopeful that the PK will pick up.

The PP playing at it's current potential, or greater, would really go a long way in ensuring we can be more competitive on a nightly basis.

Because, let's face it, we are simply to small of a team be effective at ES.

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Old
11-20-2009, 12:03 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by One Trick Pony View Post
I definitely think that the PK's slumping has something to do with all the injuries. So I'm hopeful that the PK will pick up.

The PP playing at it's current potential, or greater, would really go a long way in ensuring we can be more competitive on a nightly basis.

Because, let's face it, we are simply to small of a team be effective at ES.
The PK was horrid last year without all the injuries. Perhaps it's the players?

The PP, like always, lacks finish. You can't teach that.

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11-20-2009, 12:11 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
The PK was horrid last year without all the injuries. Perhaps it's the players?

The PP, like always, lacks finish. You can't teach that.
Well, the PP has been quite effective this year in the games I've watched, much improved from last season.

The new PK system instilled by Renney has definitely sparked a change in the Oilers gameplan, because it was doing remarkably well before that 5-2 dousing at the hands of the Flames.

I think with gritty players/veterans in the lineup such as Stone and Pisani, our PK can go back to being solid.

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Old
11-20-2009, 12:15 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Gord View Post
I'd rather hear truth like this than having poorly played games suger coated.
the truth is refreshing.
both get tiring after a while when some of these dudes cant turn the corner. and its always Jekyll and Hyde here anyhow from fans. when they lose theyre completely retarded (figuratively), and when they win its the second coming.

ill be impressed by Quinn's comments and demeanor when these guys mature/turn the corner/develop smarts that catch up to the "skill."

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Old
11-20-2009, 12:22 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by elpol View Post
We do. Well, sort of: He's working behind the bench at the moment and is a little busy teaching fancy-dan kids how to become men.
He cant do everything, can he?

He is like a warm blanket, a cup of hot cocoa, and John Wayne all rolled into one. He just makes you feel safe and cosy.

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Old
11-20-2009, 12:31 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
Hooey.

They are 14th in G/G (9th in the WC) and 24th in GA/G.

Staying that course, even if you get GA to league average will get you a 9th-12th place finish when your special teams are 12th and 20th.

That's the definition of mediocre.
How many goals did Chicago let in the year before they went to round 3! Look it up. Tell me where they ranked defensively? Where did they finish in the standings? The difference was that they started to score goals! They were the ultimate in mediocre but had improved in the goal scoring categories. Like all young teams that have talented youth, they had to learn to play defence.

The Oilers despite all their injuries are 5th in goal scoring, they are starting to get secondary offence from players like Gilbert Brule, only 22, O'Sullivan, only 24. The goal scoring is improving but the defence is mediocre just like most if not all young teams on the rise!

It won't happen overnight but the offensive signs are there just like they are for all young and talented teams that are on the rise.

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Old
11-20-2009, 12:34 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Discipline View Post
It goes without saying the last dozen games have been as depressing as any stretch we went through last year.
Man, that's just hooey. They've played some really good games without getting the win in the past 6-7.

If all you're doing is looking at the score at the end of the night, then maybe you'd be depressed, but if you actually watch the games, there is some entertaining hockey going on. Much more so than at any point last season.

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Old
11-20-2009, 12:36 AM
  #41
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Man, that's just hooey. They've played some really good games without getting the win in the past 6-7.

If all you're doing is looking at the score at the end of the night, then maybe you'd be depressed, but if you actually watch the games, there is some entertaining hockey going on. Much more so than at any point last season.
How soon we forget the 10-2 and 9-2 shellackings on home ice.

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Old
11-20-2009, 12:38 AM
  #42
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How soon we forget the 10-2 and 9-2 shellackings on home ice.
Was not the topic this year?

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Old
11-20-2009, 12:47 AM
  #43
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I concur, the Oilers have played tremendously well the last 4-5 games, actually OUTSHOOTING AND OUTCHANCING their opponents for a change.

I think bad puck luck, and injuries are the sole reason that the road trip wasn't a success. Especially in the Atlanta and Ottawa games.

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Old
11-20-2009, 12:48 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
Was not the topic this year?
Relax. I was responding to a comment.

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Old
11-20-2009, 01:05 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
He cant do everything, can he?

He is like a warm blanket, a cup of hot cocoa, and John Wayne all rolled into one. He just makes you feel safe and cosy.
John Wayne? hopefully on one of his few lucid days...

I was thinkin' more like that old Santa Claus from Miracle on 34th Street.

Honestly, do ya think that Quinn might just possibly be carefully 'wiping' the team in management's face? (professionally, of course). I believed the sincerity of managment in bringing Quinn/Renney in to take this team to the 'next level', or whatever.

I think the players actually might be starting to 'understand', but aren't really 'getting it', let alone 'executing' to much of a degree.

I never believed in the assessment of talent being put forth by management...

What I think is only that, so take with a grain of salt if you must: Papa Quinn is here to not only teach the masses how to play our beautiful game properly and consistently - He's also here to teach the organization about accountability and, more importantly, that if it quacks like a duck, it REALLY IS A DUCK!!!!! please deal with the duck, it's not going away...

it's not just the team that has become complacent and not knowing how to win or be successful. Certain moves have been needed, yet never addressed. Quinn is, imo, simply and systematically exposing this failure to the organization in a way that they will hopefully see.

They need no more drunken obsessions with landing the uber-star player please. Papa Pat says "Let's try to be a real Hockey team, and here's how ya do it kids. Oh and you management guys better be payin' attention, cause I'm not going to hang around if no one is listening." Then and only then, will our time come again, and not a moment sooner.

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Old
11-20-2009, 01:09 AM
  #46
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John Wayne? hopefully on one of his few lucid days...

I was thinkin' more like that old Santa Claus from Miracle on 34th Street.

Honestly, do ya think that Quinn might just possibly be carefully 'wiping' the team in management's face? (professionally, of course). I believed the sincerity of managment in bringing Quinn/Renney in to take this team to the 'next level', or whatever.

I think the players actually might be starting to 'understand', but aren't really 'getting it', let alone 'executing' to much of a degree.

I never believed in the assessment of talent being put forth by management...

What I think is only that, so take with a grain of salt if you must: Papa Quinn is here to not only teach the masses how to play our beautiful game properly and consistently - He's also here to teach the organization about accountability and, more importantly, that if it quacks like a duck, it REALLY IS A DUCK!!!!! please deal with the duck, it's not going away...

it's not just the team that has become complacent and not knowing how to win or be successful. Certain moves have been needed, yet never addressed. Quinn is, imo, simply and systematically exposing this failure to the organization in a way that they will hopefully see.

They need no more drunken obsessions with landing the uber-star player please. Papa Pat says "Let's try to be a real Hockey team, and here's how ya do it kids. Oh and you management guys better be payin' attention, cause I'm not going to hang around if no one is listening." Then and only then, will our time come again, and not a moment sooner.
So if I get what you are saying, not only is he here to teach the players but also to teach management how to do their job as well?

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Old
11-20-2009, 01:18 AM
  #47
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He's calling it exactly as he sees it. One of the same reasons I liked Mac-t

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11-20-2009, 01:32 AM
  #48
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Just listening to his post-game comments, Quinn comments on a variety of issues plaguing this team. I'll paraphrase some of them here.

On team speed:

Quinn acknowledges that the team has fast individuals, but that the team speed is not showing because players are hesitant to make a pass in favour of carrying it themselves. Says the team does have good puck carriers and that sometimes if a pass isn't there, the correct play is to carry the puck. But "8 times out of 10" a pass should have been made instead.

I really think Pat used the Chicago game to show this point. It hasn't gotten through to the players yet, though.

On Gilbert, defensive zone play and GA:

Quinn acknowledges Gilbert made some glaring mistakes but doesn't place the blame squarely on 77. Says at least 6 other defenseman aren't playing well in their own zone, not to mention at least 11 other forwards aren't supporting the defense - that's why the GA is so high. Says they'll continue to work on it and work on it until it gets better. Says the coaching staff have been on Gilbert to defend well now that the points aren't coming.

I hope Renney sees some of the issues as well and works to fix them.

On positive mentality, self-satisfaction and acceptance of defeat:

Quinn says the team needs to learn to do the small things right consistently, and then build upon those. Says the team is getting too self-satisfied with small victories and then not realizing there's still lots of work to do.

On the other hand, he also acknowledges they are not a mentally tough team. Says they get down too easily once a bad break occurs. Says they need to learn to bend but not break - that all NHL teams bend, but that the good ones don't break. Says they need to learn to presevere through bad luck. Gave an example of Gilbert mishandling the puck twice leading to GA, but that no one helped 77 out to cover for his mistakes. Says good teams cover for each other. Says the team accepts defeat too easily right now, needs to change mentality to be more even-keel.

I really enjoyed this part of his presser. It was quite enlightening to hear him dissect the woes of this team, and he couldn't be more accurate imo.
What's old is new again. These are all issues that have lurked in this team's personnel for some time. It is the maddening inconsistency and complacency that sneaks in. They get satisfied and comfortable. I cut the kids some slack as they find their way in the Show and will go through ups and downs. But the veteran cast is rather erratic. Faceoffs have been pathetic and an achille's heel. The Oil are getting healthy and hopefully will string some wins together and build confidence. But I believe this roster needs to be changed.

Speaking of young teams, I just saw the Hawks completely dominate the Flamers at home. Now that was a thing of beauty to see young skill players with high end skill, hockey intelligence, and finishing abilities. I wish the Oil would put a full court press to get Patrick Sharp!
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Old
11-20-2009, 01:37 AM
  #49
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So if I get what you are saying, not only is he here to teach the players but also to teach management how to do their job as well?
essentially.

think of it this way: (I'll try to be brief)

Plenty of eyebrows were raised at the hiring of Quinn/Renney. I can say from having heard on radio here in Vancouver that there were many a 'comment' questioning Tambo's wisdom behind the hiring, because well, "They just aren't a very good hockey team" as various commentators would say.

Quinn's not the only guy who could've come in to 'teach' or create a new culture. Renney was pretty qualified on his own, but certainly not sexy or charismatic enough on his own to keep the hoards at bay.

We know Quinn has extensive management experience, but loves to coach. He also understands what makes a good hockey team, what makes for a great organization.

I'm just musing about whether Tambo's decision to hire the golden duo was more about getting his mentor and jedi-master Quinn back closer to him, and in a capacity where the master can exude influence. Because he can. We all know he can. The target of the influence isn't Lowe either. It's Katz. Part of Katz's success depends on the people he surrounds himself with to do his bidding. I really do think that his keeping Lowe on as President was a decision based mostly on loyalty, plus a healthy dose of having drunk Lowe's Kool-aid for so long, that he hadn't accepted yet that his team was slowly being driven off a cliff.

Even though I am pointing finger directly at Lowe, I will say that he doesn't deserve anger or hate from the fans/people: He sincerely and wholeheartedly did what he felt was best for the organization and city. It's just painfully clear that his vision fell short. Luck, missed opportunity, lack of opportunity...

Quinn is just the icon of legitimacy, stability, and success that I believe could get the message across, where others couldn't or wouldn't.

...See, it is the players sir. They're fine fellows all (mostly), but should definitely not be all together on the same team. The more the team flounders, the stronger Quinn's, hence, Tambo's position is with ownership.


Last edited by elpol: 11-20-2009 at 02:10 AM. Reason: one word is too vague...
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Old
11-20-2009, 02:11 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elpol View Post

He's also here to teach the organization about accountability and, more importantly, that if it quacks like a duck, it REALLY IS A DUCK!!!!! please deal with the duck
....


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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post

So if I get what you are saying, not only is he here to teach the players but also to teach management how to do their job as well?
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Originally Posted by elpol View Post

essentially.
I was hoping for a duck soup recipe..........

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