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Pat Quinn understands the Oilers, but do the players understand him?

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Old
11-20-2009, 11:32 AM
  #76
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The better play would be to target Byfuglien. He could be had for next to nothing just for them to clear cap space. Combined with Penner we would be a totally different foe. Teams would not like coming into our building anymore.

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11-20-2009, 11:33 AM
  #77
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I doubt it. I don't think he even makes the Hawks roster.

Centres are Toews, Madden, Bolland, Ebett and Fraser.

Maybe as a winger but he would have some pretty stiff competition.
Get outta here, Cogliano, even with his faults is a bonifide NHLer and quite frankly could thrive in Chicago's system.

If such a deal were to take place it is one done today to help them solve tomorrow's problem.

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Hossa will be playing in that spot.
I actually forgot about Hossa but the point still remains. When Hossa comes back, Sharp isn't suddenly out of the line up he is just further down or on the other side. If a deal is made and a roster player is involved then the new player can still play in Sharp's spot.

...

This is obviously speaking from an Edmonton perspective. No doubt that the Hawks plan A will be player for picks or prospects but I doubt many teams in the league (with the exception of Brian "take my picks please" Burke) will be lining up to do them any favours.

From Edmonton's perspective it makes more sense to move a guy like Cogliano than a prospect or picks.

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11-20-2009, 11:34 AM
  #78
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100%. And I am a huge Sharp fan.
Even if we got him signed long term somehow? I would take him EASILY over any of our youngsters, it won't work anyway since we would have to clear cap space of our own to get him and they can't take on any salary.

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11-20-2009, 11:42 AM
  #79
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Even if we got him signed long term somehow?
I don't think Sharp is the type of player you burn a long term contract over.

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11-20-2009, 11:45 AM
  #80
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I don't think Sharp is the type of player you burn a long term contract over.
Really? I beg to differ..... He's the exact player that you do that for imo He does a little bit of everything and does it all at a high level He's not some kid that has untapped potential

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11-20-2009, 11:47 AM
  #81
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Get outta here, Cogliano, even with his faults is a bonifide NHLer and quite frankly could thrive in Chicago's system.

If such a deal were to take place it is one done today to help them solve tomorrow's problem.



I actually forgot about Hossa but the point still remains. When Hossa comes back, Sharp isn't suddenly out of the line up he is just further down or on the other side. If a deal is made and a roster player is involved then the new player can still play in Sharp's spot.

...

This is obviously speaking from an Edmonton perspective. No doubt that the Hawks plan A will be player for picks or prospects but I doubt many teams in the league (with the exception of Brian "take my picks please" Burke) will be lining up to do them any favours.

From Edmonton's perspective it makes more sense to move a guy like Cogliano than a prospect or picks.
Sharp is a natural centre and prefers to play there so he would likely bump Madden to the third line.

I can't see Cogliano taking that spot nor can I see him bumping Toews, Madden, Bolland or Fraser.

So he would have to replace one of Versteeg, Brouwer, Ladd or Kopecky. Eager is on the fourth line for a reason and I don't think Cogs has that particular skill set.

I just don't see there he would fit.

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11-20-2009, 11:48 AM
  #82
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I don't think Sharp is the type of player you burn a long term contract over.
He's already signed for 3 more years at $3.9M.

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11-20-2009, 12:03 PM
  #83
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The Oilers are not the Chicago Blackhawks...not even close. The Blackhawks are blessed with several elite forwards, the Oilers have none unless Hemsky steps up.
The Hawks are also considerably younger than the Oilers.

The Oilers are not 5th in goal scoring...they're 14th in G/G unless you think every game the opposition has in hand will be a scoreless tie.
So Penner is a mirage? Could be but we are not over a quarter of a season through. Hemsky is a good player and for the first time is starting to some other talent around him to compliment him.

Gagner is 20, Brule is 22. They do have young forwards that are good players.

They have a young very physical dman that is picking up his game in Smid which all future good teams need and some veteran leadership.

The signs are there and if it was ANY other team but Edmonton you would recognize it.

I am not comparing Edmonton to Chicago NOW! I am comparing the situations. Chicago made their first step forward the year before they made the playoffs by increasing their goals and were better offensively.


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11-20-2009, 12:16 PM
  #84
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So Penner is a mirage? Could be but we are not over a quarter of a season through. Hemsky is a good player and for the first time is starting to some other talent around him to compliment him.

Gagner is 20, Brule is 22. They do have young forwards that are good players.

They have a young very physical dman that is picking up his game in Smid which all future good teams need and some veteran leadership.

The signs are there and if it was ANY other team but Edmonton you would recognize it.
Penner is not a mirage, he's having a great season but perhaps a 20 game sample size is a little small before we call him elite.

Hemsky is what he is and has had other "good players" to play with in the past.

Gagner is 20 and Kane just turned 21 (yesterday), Toews is 21 while Brule is 22. Take your pick.

Smid is doing fine for a 23 year old but so are Barker (23) and Seabrook (24) and Keith who is only 26.

I'm not sure what "signs" I'm supposed to be looking for but comparing the Oilers to the Blackhawks is a bit over the top.

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11-20-2009, 12:21 PM
  #85
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He's already signed for 3 more years at $3.9M.
I won't argue the fit with you, needless to say we disagree and that's fine.

My comment about not signing him to a long term contract was more cursory than anything else. For some reason I thought he only had a year left and took the "signed long term" comment to mean extending for more than a few years.

I wouldn't do it, actually knowing he is signed for three more years changes my mind entirely. I wouldn't persue him at all given the commitment.

If the Oilers cap situation (other teams as well) has taught us anything it is that you reserve long term contracts only for the ellite, young ellite at that. If a player doesn't fit that category I think you need to max out at three years unless the player is leaving alot of money on the table...which they obviously don't do.

Sharp sort of fits the mold for his term but not with the rest of the salary structure the Oilers are faced with.

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11-20-2009, 12:25 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
Penner is not a mirage, he's having a great season but perhaps a 20 game sample size is a little small before we call him elite.

Hemsky is what he is and has had other "good players" to play with in the past.

Gagner is 20 and Kane just turned 21 (yesterday), Toews is 21 while Brule is 22. Take your pick.

Smid is doing fine for a 23 year old but so are Barker (23) and Seabrook (24) and Keith who is only 26.

I'm not sure what "signs" I'm supposed to be looking for but comparing the Oilers to the Blackhawks is a bit over the top.
I am not comparing the teams NOW. I am comparing the situations. I am not even talking about this year.

They are both young teams and Chicago has more elite players and thus got better faster than Edmonton but that doesn't mean that you can ignore the progress of those Edmonton players.

Penner himself is only 27, What is Hemsky 27? It is not like they are old men!

We are not talking this year. So we have the progression of Gagner, Brule, Smid, O'Sullivan who is what 24?.

Do you really none of the players mentioned are not going to continue to progress? Doubtful.

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11-20-2009, 12:26 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
I won't argue the fit with you, needless to say we disagree and that's fine.

My comment about not signing him to a long term contract was more cursory than anything else. For some reason I thought he only had a year left and took the "signed long term" comment to mean extending for more than a few years.

I wouldn't do it, actually knowing he is signed for three more years changes my mind entirely. I wouldn't persue him at all given the commitment.

If the Oilers cap situation (other teams as well) has taught us anything it is that you reserve long term contracts only for the ellite, young ellite at that. If a player doesn't fit that category I think you need to max out at three years unless the player is leaving alot of money on the table...which they obviously don't do.

Sharp sort of fits the mold for his term but not with the rest of the salary structure the Oilers are faced with.

I know this was directed at DSF but let me jump in here for a second..... The Oilers have no elite players in their system (hopefully MPS at some point) and there are no elite players to be had so why not trade for a guy like Sharp who's signed at a pretty good contract and would help this team in so many areas, i don't get why not, he would immediately be one of our best if not best forwards.

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11-20-2009, 12:34 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
I am not comparing the teams NOW. I am comparing the situations. I am not even talking about this year.

They are both young teams and Chicago has more elite players and thus got better faster than Edmonton but that doesn't mean that you can ignore the progress of those Edmonton players.

Penner himself is only 27, What is Hemsky 27? It is not like they are old men!

We are not talking this year. So we have the progression of Gagner, Brule, Smid, O'Sullivan who is what 24?.

Do you really none of the players mentioned are not going to continue to progress? Doubtful.
Of course they will. Do you think young players on other teams won't?

I think your idea here is the Oilers are a "team on the rise".

Couldn't you also say that about Colorado, Columbus, Phoenix, STL and especially Los Angeles?

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11-20-2009, 12:38 PM
  #89
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I won't argue the fit with you, needless to say we disagree and that's fine.

My comment about not signing him to a long term contract was more cursory than anything else. For some reason I thought he only had a year left and took the "signed long term" comment to mean extending for more than a few years.

I wouldn't do it, actually knowing he is signed for three more years changes my mind entirely. I wouldn't persue him at all given the commitment.

If the Oilers cap situation (other teams as well) has taught us anything it is that you reserve long term contracts only for the ellite, young ellite at that. If a player doesn't fit that category I think you need to max out at three years unless the player is leaving alot of money on the table...which they obviously don't do.

Sharp sort of fits the mold for his term but not with the rest of the salary structure the Oilers are faced with.
Well, I think Sharp immediately becomes the Oilers best all round player so I wouldn't blanch at $3.9M for three years. And he's only 27 so really not outside the core age group by much.

I just don't think the Oilers have anything other than perhaps Eberle and a pick that would interest the Hawks.

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11-20-2009, 12:43 PM
  #90
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The Oilers have no elite players in their system (hopefully MPS at some point) and there are no elite players to be had so why not trade for a guy like Sharp who's signed at a pretty good contract and would help this team in so many areas, i don't get why not, he would immediately be one of our best if not best forwards.
Because Sharp is not elite either.

He is a good player but when your best player is only a good player your team is not going to be very good. And when you're paying a good player to be your best player you are handcuffing yourself from potentially getting the type of player you really need should the opportunity come along. Now obviously Sharp's existing contract isn't the same as paying him to be your best player but I do think his contract is close to the outter marker of decent value.

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11-20-2009, 12:46 PM
  #91
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Well, I think Sharp immediately becomes the Oilers best all round player...
Meh, he would be a very nice compliment player, which they need, but that's as far as I would go.

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11-20-2009, 12:52 PM
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Meh, he would be a very nice compliment player, which they need, but that's as far as I would go.
Complimentary to what I guess I have to ask.

He's on a PPG pace, is a great penalty killer and plays both wing and centre very effectively.

While I agree the Oilers could use a player a level above even that, you would be looking at a $5M to $7M player and that would be a very tight fit.

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11-20-2009, 12:56 PM
  #93
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Of course they will. Do you think young players on other teams won't?

I think your idea here is the Oilers are a "team on the rise".

Couldn't you also say that about Colorado, Columbus, Phoenix, STL and especially Los Angeles?

LA is a fine example of what I am talking about actually. Where did they finish last year? Where did they finish defensively? Slowly they are improving, as their players mature. It has been painfully slow, they are probably a better example than Chicago! In fact they scored less goals then Edmonton last year and let in 266 goals but they have too many young talented players to not improve. It didn't hurt to have an older power forward have an exceptional season before he got injured!

I find it interesting that you have been harping on how LA will improve for what 3 seasons now and don't recognize the young talent in Edmonton Silks.

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11-20-2009, 01:01 PM
  #94
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Because Sharp is not elite either.

He is a good player but when your best player is only a good player your team is not going to be very good. And when you're paying a good player to be your best player you are handcuffing yourself from potentially getting the type of player you really need should the opportunity come along. Now obviously Sharp's existing contract isn't the same as paying him to be your best player but I do think his contract is close to the outter marker of decent value.
Yeah but he's not payed to be elite so he won't cripple the salary cap situation and for what he brings to the table, he's a bargain at $3.9 mil He would be our best pker, best goal scorer and one of our grittiest and fastest players all rolled up into one package, the guy is a beast and would be our best overall player.

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11-20-2009, 01:14 PM
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Complimentary to what I guess I have to ask.
This is probably a rediculously obvious answer but, complimentary to the players around him.

The Oilers need a player that is THE guy. Barring that, they need a bunch of affordable pros that can give them the finer points of the game.

Sharp is neither. He is abit of a tweener in that regard.

I suddenly feel like I am running down Sharp and that isn't my intent because I like him as a player but given his contract I simply don't see him as a fit for the Oilers.

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He's on a PPG pace, is a great penalty killer and plays both wing and centre very effectively.
A near PPG pace.

It's funny becuase I think you and I are pretty much in sync with our opinions of Horcoff and his contract. Granted Sharp's contract isn't the same albatross but if you look at them as players, Horcoff has actually put up more points in a season than Sharp and has a better career PPG than Sharp. The obvious difference is that Sharp scores more goals.

Is another, slightly lesser version of Horcoff, the cure for this teams mediocrity?

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11-20-2009, 01:15 PM
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LA is a fine example of what I am talking about actually. Where did they finish last year? Where did they finish defensively? Slowly they are improving, as their players mature. It has been painfully slow, they are probably a better example than Chicago! In fact they scored less goals then Edmonton last year and let in 266 goals but they have too many young talented players to not improve. It didn't hurt to have an older power forward have an exceptional season before he got injured!

I find it interesting that you have been harping on how LA will improve for what 3 seasons now and don't recognize the young talent in Edmonton Silks.
Well, I think I have a pretty good handle on Edmonton talent so, since you like the LA example, do you think the Oiler's young talent matches LA's?

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11-20-2009, 01:18 PM
  #97
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Yeah but he's not payed to be elite so he won't cripple the salary cap situation and for what he brings to the table, he's a bargain at $3.9 mil He would be our best pker, best goal scorer and one of our grittiest and fastest players all rolled up into one package, the guy is a beast and would be our best overall player.
Would he be a bargain on this team specifically?

Put Sharp's 3.9 mil to the Oilers salary structure for the next 3 years and then try to figure out where the team would have room to improve.

I don't think they could and I certainly don't think Sharp is THE answer this team is searching for. This team is already plagued with to many Sharp type contracts, adding another one is like adding Comrie to a team that is plagued with small forwards...oh wait...nevermind.

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11-20-2009, 01:22 PM
  #98
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Interesting article on the Blackhawks situation. More likely smaller moves to alleviate cap space.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...-numbers_N.htm

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11-20-2009, 01:25 PM
  #99
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Well, I think I have a pretty good handle on Edmonton talent so, since you like the LA example, do you think the Oiler's young talent matches LA's?
LA has taken so long to develop that to compare equally I could throw in Eberle and, MPS who are both having exceptional seasons. Remember that I am NOT talking about this year!

We are talking about Edmonton's future. Just you like you have been talking LA's future for the last 3 years!

I recognize that the young Oilers have some talent in their organization and in their team.

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11-20-2009, 01:29 PM
  #100
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Would he be a bargain on this team specifically?

Put Sharp's 3.9 mil to the Oilers salary structure for the next 3 years and then try to figure out where the team would have room to improve.

I don't think they could and I certainly don't think Sharp is THE answer this team is searching for. This team is already plagued with to many Sharp type contracts, adding another one is like adding Comrie to a team that is plagued with small forwards...oh wait...nevermind.

What Sharplike contract do we have? Hemsky? The best bargain on our team?

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