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So....What's Tkachuk's excuse this postseason?

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Old
04-14-2004, 02:47 AM
  #1
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So....What's Tkachuk's excuse this postseason?

Just curious because when he stops getting paid, he stops playing for the most part. Damn shame he's still getting paid ridiculous cash with a no-trade clause to be a consistent no show in the playoffs. Most of the big names have stunk in this series for the Blues, but at least Weight had one great series last year. Tkachuk is a regular season player and I'm 100% convinced of it as of now. I gave him benefit of the doubt for a long time (since the last couple of seasons with the Coyotes), but right now, I say **** Tkachuk. He may get to 500 goals before his career is done, but he is useless under any real pressure wearing the Bluenote.

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04-14-2004, 09:00 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laperriere22
Just curious because when he stops getting paid, he stops playing for the most part. Damn shame he's still getting paid ridiculous cash with a no-trade clause to be a consistent no show in the playoffs. Most of the big names have stunk in this series for the Blues, but at least Weight had one great series last year. Tkachuk is a regular season player and I'm 100% convinced of it as of now. I gave him benefit of the doubt for a long time (since the last couple of seasons with the Coyotes), but right now, I say **** Tkachuk. He may get to 500 goals before his career is done, but he is useless under any real pressure wearing the Bluenote.
Man, I've never heard anyone complain about how much the blues stink as you. I'm not trying to start a war or anything. Everytime I read your posts it's like the attack of Mr. Negative! I haven't heard you say anything good about the Blues in a loooong time. You went on about how they wouldn't make the playoffs and then you went on about how they didn't have a chance to win against San Jose, and now you are going on about how bad they are playing. Tkachuk is one of the players that played his ass off to get us into the playoffs, wouldn't you call that real pressure? Do you like anything about the Blues?

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04-14-2004, 09:12 AM
  #3
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At least he has 11 SOGs.

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04-14-2004, 10:21 AM
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Aside from his meltdown in game two where he selfishly took about a dozen penalities, I can't find fault with Tkachuk's effort in this series. He's battled, and while he hasn't scored, he's made several exceptional plays to set-up scoring chances which have led to several of the Blues' goals.

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04-14-2004, 11:08 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger
Aside from his meltdown in game two where he selfishly took about a dozen penalities, I can't find fault with Tkachuk's effort in this series. He's battled, and while he hasn't scored, he's made several exceptional plays to set-up scoring chances which have led to several of the Blues' goals.
I think that Game 2 is a direct result of the work of Mike Rathje/Scott Hannan in Game 1. And there was that HUGE brain fart he had in Game 1 to give the Sharks a PP for the last two minutes of the 3rd period. I'm with Lappy on this; he's gotta start doing something in the playoffs. Aside from '02, he's looked nothing but craptastic.

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04-14-2004, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laperriere22
Just curious because when he stops getting paid, he stops playing for the most part. Damn shame he's still getting paid ridiculous cash with a no-trade clause to be a consistent no show in the playoffs. Most of the big names have stunk in this series for the Blues, but at least Weight had one great series last year. Tkachuk is a regular season player and I'm 100% convinced of it as of now. I gave him benefit of the doubt for a long time (since the last couple of seasons with the Coyotes), but right now, I say **** Tkachuk. He may get to 500 goals before his career is done, but he is useless under any real pressure wearing the Bluenote.
I'm actually starting to agree with you. Tkachuk has missed too many easy chances. He has made some nice plays but his job is to finish the chances he gets and he isn't doing it, plus his bad penalties are getting old.

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04-14-2004, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueblood1617
You went on about how they wouldn't make the playoffs
Totally incorrect. I was pretty certain the Blues would make the playoffs. If you're going to generalize, let's at least get the generalizations accurate. You'll be hardpressed to find me stating they wouldn't make the playoffs.

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and then you went on about how they didn't have a chance to win against San Jose
Are they not down 3-1?


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and now you are going on about how bad they are playing.
Really? Seems to me all I'm doing is singling out one of the highest paid players in the league for not producing (again) when his team needs his production. I've hardly made any comments about this series; so again, if you're going to generalize, a little accuracy would go a long way.


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Tkachuk is one of the players that played his ass off to get us into the playoffs, wouldn't you call that real pressure? Do you like anything about the Blues?
I wouldn't say that Tkachuk was the main catalyst in making the playoffs; I give that to luck of the schedule. He played alright down the stretch, but I think players like Osgood and even Sillinger played more important roles down the stretch. What I do know is that Tkachuk has only had one good series with the Blues and that was against the Hawks a couple of years ago. And even then, it's debatable how much of an impact he made on that series.

For his contract (length and dollar amount), it seems like expectations should be much higher than what they are for a lot of people. Some shots on goal and effort aren't why he's the big dollar guy on the team; production is supposedly why he's the big man on the team. Mayers can provide shots on goal and effort too as can a large number of players in this league. Tkachuk is the #1 goalscorer and has nothing. Is he the reason the Blues are losing the series? No, I don't think so. Are his lack of goals hurting the team? Definitely, especially given his checkered playoff past and the Blues' season long offensive woes.

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04-14-2004, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laperriere22
Most of the big names have stunk in this series for the Blues, but at least Weight had one great series last year.
How much more accurate can I be? You definitely said they the players have stunk.

I went back, and it turns out you did say that you thought they would make it in, even though you don't want them to. Sorry, I do admit fault in that one. You're probably right... it takes a much better fan to say they want them to miss the playoffs.

You've also said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laperriere22
I'm hoping the Predators win personally; I think they will give the Sharks or Wings a better run for their money than the Blues can.
When the idea of The Blues Facing The Wings was brought up:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laperriere22
What would actually happen is the Blues will abandon the punishing forecheck to instead play in awe of the Wings and to try to play the Wings style. The Wings will embarrass them...
In the Thread for Brian Savage's Trade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laperriere22
This team is screwed
I'm not off on my facts at all, you have no faith, and you have been Mr. Negative in almost every Blues post since at least the trade deadline. Yes, I think you were right, Tkachuk needs to step it up if the Blues want to make it anywhere. He's put up as many or more points as everyone on the team except Sillinger, so I don't think Walt is the problem. When I said he was a major part in getting us into the playoffs I stand by that, he had 7 goals including 3 game winners in March. He plays hard. If he had been on that pace for the entire season he would have won the Rocket trophy. I'm done with fighting with you. Go Blues Go! I have faith that they can do to the Sharks what the 'Nucks did to us last year!

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04-14-2004, 02:05 PM
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I've been saying it for the past year. Tkachuk is nothing but a glorified garbage goal guy(like the alliteration there, oh yea, I know you do). He has no hands(for a guy getting paid 8.5 million per year), has missed wide open nets, takes selfish penalties, and he isn't even physically intimidating. Yes he takes the beating in front of the net to get his garbage goals, but he hardly ever takes the body. His inflated PIMS are results of stupid epnalties, not physicality. The power forward label he is given is outdated, not because he isn't a power forward, but because the power forward position itself is outdated. I'd rather have a player who can dig in the trenches, who can score, and backchecks, than a guy who stands in front of the net waiting for tip-ins(I know Tkachuk's scope is larger than that, but that's about 80% of it there).

And my boy Demitra, hmm, just trade him, dump him, whatever, I'm done supporting that doucherag. I for one thought this team should've been blown up at the trade deadline. I hate to say that I didn't want them to make the playoffs, but maybe that would've sped up the process of dumping the losers on this team and starting anew.

But hey, if the Blues sack up and win this series and go further than the 2nd round, I'll be the first to eat crow and celebrate. But it's not gonna happen.

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04-14-2004, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueblood1617
I'm not off on my facts at all, you have no faith, and you have been Mr. Negative in almost every Blues post since at least the trade deadline. Yes, I think you were right, Tkachuk needs to step it up if the Blues want to make it anywhere. He's put up as many or more points as everyone on the team except Sillinger, so I don't think Walt is the problem. When I said he was a major part in getting us into the playoffs I stand by that, he had 7 goals including 3 game winners in March. He plays hard. If he had been on that pace for the entire season he would have won the Rocket trophy. I'm done with fighting with you. Go Blues Go! I have faith that they can do to the Sharks what the 'Nucks did to us last year!
You have mroe faith than a lot of us blueblood. Unless the Sharks get the flu, or have more injuries, or Nabokov falls on his face, how can you believe that this incarnation of the Blues can win three games in a row against a faster, more disciplined team with better scoring depth and physical play? I guess that's what faith is, blind faith. Reason tells me this team is gonna do jack *****. I mean they're suddenly gonna sack up and stop taking dumb penalties, take the body on each and very shift, and actually capitalize on wide open nets? This team just frustrates to no end.

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04-14-2004, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueblood1617
How much more accurate can I be? You definitely said they the players have stunk.
No, I said most of the big names have stunk. The big names would be Tkachuk, Weight, Demitra, Pronger, and Osgood. Out of those five, I'd say Osgood has been good and Pronger about average. The other three have drastically underachieved in this series. How does one sentence translate into "going on about how bad they are playing."? That's my question. I'm tired of watching Bizarro hockey where Sillinger plays like the 1st line guy and the 1st and 2nd line guys look like 3rd liners with defensive deficiencies.


Quote:
I went back, and it turns out you did say that you thought they would make it in, even though you don't want them to. Sorry, I do admit fault in that one. You're probably right... it takes a much better fan to say they want them to miss the playoffs.
Damn right I said it. Have you watched the other series at all? Teams like the Flames and Predators have been busting their butts for the bulk of their games; can the Blues say that? No, they can't. They've had flashes of hard work and aggression, much like their regular season, which is why I wanted to see other teams that were playing harder and more desperate than the Blues down the stretch.


Quote:
When the idea of The Blues Facing The Wings was brought up:
Have you watched the Blues vs. the Wings the last 2-3 years? What I said wasn't negative; that's being realistic.


Quote:
In the Thread for Brian Savage's Trade.
And how's the goalscoring coming along for the Blues right about now? The comment was made in regards to Pleau's inactivity around the deadline in improving this team. Savage hasn't helped the offense much at all (it's why he's Mr. October). The defense gets caught running around or out-of-position a little too often and the backchecking is just as questionable at the moment.


Quote:
I'm not off on my facts at all, you have no faith, and you have been Mr. Negative in almost every Blues post since at least the trade deadline. Yes, I think you were right, Tkachuk needs to step it up if the Blues want to make it anywhere. He's put up as many or more points as everyone on the team except Sillinger, so I don't think Walt is the problem. When I said he was a major part in getting us into the playoffs I stand by that, he had 7 goals including 3 game winners in March. He plays hard. If he had been on that pace for the entire season he would have won the Rocket trophy. I'm done with fighting with you. Go Blues Go! I have faith that they can do to the Sharks what the 'Nucks did to us last year!
Faith is silly; there needs to be something there to base optimism on. This is one of the worst Blues teams in recent memory; it often evokes similarities to the Keenan era for me. I keep waiting to see Creighton or Noonan out there playing.

For me, not being a homer or an optimist, I'm going to express my disgust quite often because this team has earned it. There have been only a couple of things of worth to this season. The emergence of Backman and Danton and Pronger returning fairly close to his previous Hart/Norris form. And that's it. What else is there? Maybe Salvador/Walker looking like a nice physical pairing. But what else? Cajanek? Demitra? Sejna? Weight? Boguniecki? Mayers? Shall I continue?

I don't allow emotions to enter into my assessments too often; as such, the Blues had shown no reason for me to believe they could beat the Sharks. Blind faith may allow you to believe it, but I base most of my thoughts on things other than blind faith. This series is going pretty much as I expected and that annoys me. I'd much rather be wrong than right about this year's team.

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04-15-2004, 06:53 PM
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I'm going to agree in large part with Lappy here. Had the Blues played the Wings, we'd be thrilled if we were only down 3-1. We would be playing in awe of them and letting them win games they had no business winning. They'd have quit before the series ever started.

I thought Tkachuk's problems had more to do with Demitra's disappearing act (again) until Game 3. In 3 and 4, Tkachuk has been invisible in large part. He's not sitting in front of the net, he's missing glorious chances, .... - as Lappy said, when he's supposed to really earn his money, he's nowhere to be found. Demitra has been bad, Weight IMO has been average, Pronger has been OK, Osgood has been either great or below average, and as a result it's no surprise this team is about to go off the cliff.

I'm not shocked the team is down 3-1. I'm more angry that they just don't give a care when they need to be playing hard to tie a series up. I'm angry we hear "Gee, we really need to play hard" and then don't see that effort on the ice. As Randy Karraker said this morning on KTRS, you have no idea what team will show up shift-to-shift, much less game-to-game, and it's that inconsistency that makes their record not a surprise.

Believe me, I'm as big a Blues fan as there is. I said they'd win in 6 based on my hope that they'd right the ship and play meaningful hockey in the postseason. Clearly I was wrong. I'm writing my post-mortem for the '03-04 season right now. I expect I'll be posting it tomorrow evening. I'd like to hold out hope that the Blues will rally from 3-1 down, but it won't happen. Period. This team doesn't have it in them to make that comeback.

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04-16-2004, 08:02 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues
I'm not shocked the team is down 3-1. I'm more angry that they just don't give a care when they need to be playing hard to tie a series up. I'm angry we hear "Gee, we really need to play hard" and then don't see that effort on the ice. As Randy Karraker said this morning on KTRS, you have no idea what team will show up shift-to-shift, much less game-to-game, and it's that inconsistency that makes their record not a surprise.
Irish, I've been saying this for a couple of seasons. I really believe that there is a problem in the fabric of this organization. There is no will to win. There is no atmosphere that anything less than 100% effort will not be accepted. We can rarely see how good the team actually is, then they go back into their old, crap effort.

It was refreshing this morning (after the Blues elimination) that Kitchen made a comment to the press that the team did not have the effort in the last game. By doing that, the publicly chastised the team.

Of course, I didn't just write the negative stuff above. I don't want to be accused of not being a "real" fan.

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04-16-2004, 08:06 AM
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Last season I gave Walt the benefit of the doubt. He had a wrist injury and that visibly affected his play and ability to shoot.

However, he has no excuse this season. He just didn't show up at all. He needs to give 1/2 of his salary back to the team for playing like Sheite in the playoffs. :mad:

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04-16-2004, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenzy1
Last season I gave Walt the benefit of the doubt. He had a wrist injury and that visibly affected his play and ability to shoot.

However, he has no excuse this season. He just didn't show up at all. He needs to give 1/2 of his salary back to the team for playing like Sheite in the playoffs. :mad:
You can anaylize it all you want. Keith chokes every year in the playoffs right back to his early years in Winnipeg. I learned early to leave the guy off my playoff pool every year.

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04-16-2004, 01:32 PM
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I think the Blues need to redefine their core. I think in the last four years several teams have discovered that they've paid star money for some players that can't become that core leader on their team. Something happened in this league when Guerin, Holik and Tkachuck were able to seal deals like they got when they are really good players but not star players you build teams around. Tkachuck's playoff tendancies are well documented and I think the Blues aren't the only team that's learned a lesson about big money contracts for players like him.

Good news is that St. Louis has a great defensive core, with more coming up that shouldn't be effected by the new CBA regardless of what it does.

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04-16-2004, 02:19 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimothyR
Irish, I've been saying this for a couple of seasons. I really believe that there is a problem in the fabric of this organization. There is no will to win. There is no atmosphere that anything less than 100% effort will not be accepted. We can rarely see how good the team actually is, then they go back into their old, crap effort.
What a coincidence. I've said for 4 years that when this team finally cops an attitude, they'll be much tougher to beat. As it is, they could play the '80-81 Winnipeg team that went 9-63-8 and be thinking, "Oh gee gosh golly whillickers, I hope we're lucky enough to eek out a point in this game." They need to play with the attitude of, "Oh...the all-time Red Army team with everyone in their prime? Whatever...we're still winning this game."

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04-16-2004, 07:15 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues
They need to play with the attitude of, "Oh...the all-time Red Army team with everyone in their prime? Whatever...we're still winning this game."
I don't necessarily disagree with that, Irish... but it's pretty tough to maintain that kind of intensity for 80 games and still have it left for the playoffs as well.

And you know as well as I do that if the Blues played like that for 70 of 80 games in the regular season, some people would complain about the ten games they didn't go balls-out...

It just blows my mind that one of the few guys who did play that way, night in and night out, is sitting in a jail cell in San Jose right now...

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04-16-2004, 11:35 PM
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Well, I guess I can now scratch the emergence of Danton off of the small list of positive things I can take away from the Blues season. The list now reads:

The emergence of Backman
Pronger returning to form

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04-17-2004, 03:42 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrussianBlue
I don't necessarily disagree with that, Irish... but it's pretty tough to maintain that kind of intensity for 80 games and still have it left for the playoffs as well.

And you know as well as I do that if the Blues played like that for 70 of 80 games in the regular season, some people would complain about the ten games they didn't go balls-out...
As Pat Quinn once said, "You know you'll have 10 games each year when your team doesn't show up. You just hope those 10 games aren't all in a row."

I think when you look at teams like Detroit, Dallas, New Jersey and Colorado (when they had Roy), they could care less who's on the other bench - those teams feel like they'll win every game no matter who their opponent is. Especially Detroit and New Jersey - they have a swagger, a quiet confidence, an attitude that they're going to win tonight. If they don't, big deal - they'll win tomorrow night. The Blues haven't had that. Not even when they won the President's Trophy did you get the feeling that the Blues were willing to take on anyone and feel like they were going to not just win, but dominate in winning.

Am I asking for too much? Maybe I am. But I'm tired of my Blues teams having a meek, "Gee I hope we're lucky and can beat the Rolla Pee-Wees tonight" attitude when they play. I want them to play with an attitude, have a swagger in their stride, and not just win but dominate some nights. When they have to rally in the 3rd to beat a Penguins team that had lost 15 straight AND it takes OT to do it, there's a problem with the team's attitude and passion for winning.

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04-17-2004, 03:51 PM
  #21
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Tkachuk is not a playoff guy, that's obvious, but he is the guy who gets you to the playoffs. Look at how many goals AND assists he had this year...he had some assists, which means he is not just a garbage goal player, he also is a team player. Besides, Walt WAS NOT our problem this year. There are 2 bigger (need I say TALLER) problems this year, those being Pronger(the taller) and Demitra. Pronger needs to learn to stay out of the sin bin. I don't blame but 4:00 mins. of penalties on him in game 2, the refs were just way out of control and needed to be put back in their playpen, but in games 1, 3, 4, 5 he still played undisciplined. Prongs needs to stay out of the Penalty box. And then there is Demitra. Demitra, ever since about December, has been playing horribly, he fumbles passes, fans shots, misses pucks, and the like. Pavs is another player that disappears in the Playoffs, but he wasn't even visible THIS SEASON!

Those are the players we need to look at first...

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04-21-2004, 04:45 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laperriere22
Just curious because when he stops getting paid, he stops playing for the most part. Damn shame he's still getting paid ridiculous cash with a no-trade clause to be a consistent no show in the playoffs. Most of the big names have stunk in this series for the Blues, but at least Weight had one great series last year. Tkachuk is a regular season player and I'm 100% convinced of it as of now. I gave him benefit of the doubt for a long time (since the last couple of seasons with the Coyotes), but right now, I say **** Tkachuk. He may get to 500 goals before his career is done, but he is useless under any real pressure wearing the Bluenote.
There is no denying that he followed his pattern of a very good regular season followed by a ****** playoffs. I just think that Power Forwards of his calibre are very difficult to come by and I sure hope they bring him back so he doesnt go somewhere else and finally bust out in the playoffs.

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04-21-2004, 04:48 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by SneakerPimp82
I've been saying it for the past year. Tkachuk is nothing but a glorified garbage goal guy(like the alliteration there, oh yea, I know you do). He has no hands(for a guy getting paid 8.5 million per year), has missed wide open nets, takes selfish penalties, and he isn't even physically intimidating. Yes he takes the beating in front of the net to get his garbage goals, but he hardly ever takes the body. His inflated PIMS are results of stupid epnalties, not physicality. The power forward label he is given is outdated, not because he isn't a power forward, but because the power forward position itself is outdated. I'd rather have a player who can dig in the trenches, who can score, and backchecks, than a guy who stands in front of the net waiting for tip-ins(I know Tkachuk's scope is larger than that, but that's about 80% of it there).

And my boy Demitra, hmm, just trade him, dump him, whatever, I'm done supporting that doucherag. I for one thought this team should've been blown up at the trade deadline. I hate to say that I didn't want them to make the playoffs, but maybe that would've sped up the process of dumping the losers on this team and starting anew.

But hey, if the Blues sack up and win this series and go further than the 2nd round, I'll be the first to eat crow and celebrate. But it's not gonna happen.
I dont care if they are garbage goals for the most part he gets between 30 and 40 of them a year and at the end of the day they count the same as an end to end rush, do they not.

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04-22-2004, 01:18 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue bleeder 24-7
Tkachuk is not a playoff guy, that's obvious, but he is the guy who gets you to the playoffs. Look at how many goals AND assists he had this year...he had some assists, which means he is not just a garbage goal player, he also is a team player. Besides, Walt WAS NOT our problem this year. There are 2 bigger (need I say TALLER) problems this year, those being Pronger(the taller) and Demitra. Pronger needs to learn to stay out of the sin bin. I don't blame but 4:00 mins. of penalties on him in game 2, the refs were just way out of control and needed to be put back in their playpen, but in games 1, 3, 4, 5 he still played undisciplined. Prongs needs to stay out of the Penalty box. And then there is Demitra. Demitra, ever since about December, has been playing horribly, he fumbles passes, fans shots, misses pucks, and the like. Pavs is another player that disappears in the Playoffs, but he wasn't even visible THIS SEASON!

Those are the players we need to look at first...
Tkachuk is obviously not a playoff guy, by your own words, but yet we need to look at Pronger and Demitra first? Demitra and Tkachuk can rot for all I care, they've been in this organization for years, and still have very little to show for it in the playoffs. Pronger while yes he didn't play weel in this series, he did perform better than KT and Demitra, that's a fact. As far as the undisciplined play, the whole team was slow, undisciplined, and lacked intensity, just to varying degrees.

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04-22-2004, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c-carp
There is no denying that he followed his pattern of a very good regular season followed by a ****** playoffs. I just think that Power Forwards of his calibre are very difficult to come by and I sure hope they bring him back so he doesnt go somewhere else and finally bust out in the playoffs.
A power forward of his caliber? One that should score, dish out big hits, physically impose his will on other players and oh yea, dominate in the playoffs with his scoring touch and physicality. Yea, so far Tkachuk's 1/4, he scores, and that's about it. I hardly remember any big hits he's given in the reg. season or playoffs, he doesn't fight, he doesn't physically impact a game(a la Bertuzzi with his huits on Jackman and MacInnis), and he sure as hell doesn't dominate in the playoffs where physicality is even more of an asset. Plainly put, Tkachuk sucks at his job.

As far as him busting out in the playoffs at the age of 33 or 34, whenever the new CBA is agreed upon, remember that "power forwards" decline earlier because of their physicality. They then have to rely on their skill more. As far as I can see, Tkachuk misses wide open nets and can't score unless it's a tip-in or redirection. So if he can't stand in front of the net and get his tip-ins and redirects, how the hell is he gonna score? I see him going the way of Mellanby, old slow, with little puck shooting skills, he has nothing to rely on when his body fails him ultimately.

And please, no comparisons to Shanahan. He can actually shoot the puck and score from outside the goalie crease.

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