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"Sunday Huddle" Oil Leaders team meeting

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Old
11-22-2009, 03:36 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
With all due respect have you been in the work force very long? When an org is chronically faltering and production, morale, attitude, have been abysmal for years and then the company hires a "ringer" to "readjust" the company attitude you shouldn't be expecting pleasantry and a wine and cheese meeting.

This kind of strip the paint off walls meeting is usually one way. Its basically what Quinn was hired here to do.

The players lost the right to have much input through their missing the playoffs 3 years in a row. Quinn actually states this. That the players, (he stops just short of calling them losers) haven't figured out how to win and don't know how.
The general work force should have very little direct correlation with professional sports. The psyche of an athlete required to operate at peak performance day in day out is on a different planet from the performance required by a machine worker or an oil & gas executive.


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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
I disagree. What could this group of losers possibly have to vent about? Unless it is their perception of unfair treatment in the media by the coach? They havent earned the right to be heard. They sent one coach packing and now they are supposed to tell the new coach how it is? It is time for them to **** and listen and learn and show something. Let their actions speak for them. Otherwise no one wants to hear what this group of cads has to say including someone who has seen it all backwards and forwards like Quinn has. What could these underachievers really have to say to him?
Well this is the danger reading too much into a single quote. For example when Horcoff says we're venting it could potentially be referring to himself airing frustration at letting the team down despite trying to do everything he possible can think of to help out. Then asking Quinn or anyone else for advice on how to best move forward.

He could be referring to how the team is having difficulty coping with some players bringing a consistent effort every night while others are all over the map...there's only so much any individual player can do to influence the efforts of those around him.

Or hell, for all you know it was Penner venting about how Gagner, O'Sullivan and Cogliano are all out chasing tail and getting blitzed while they should be working.

The players will always have a unique perspective on things and they should always have the right to be heard. Even if the response from Quinn is "that's great, you're looking at things like morons so shut the **** up and do what I tell you from here on out".

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Old
11-22-2009, 03:36 PM
  #27
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Sorry, I find this hilarious. The Oilers have a 90-minute meeting with the guys wearing letters and the common response is, "this team has chosen to lose."

Wow.

We have no idea what was said in that room today, but apparently some have it entirely figured out by selecting one quoted sentence from Shawn Horcoff.
Ryan you would know its "not just one sentence" its the whole culture of losing that Quinn has spoken volumes about since he's come here and that the fans have seen here seemingly forever. Or of the passive resistance to direction this group has exhibited for years.

Its a bit dismissive of you to say one sentence. Although it is a sentence that jumped off the page for its inappropriateness. By Horcoff no less.

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11-22-2009, 03:38 PM
  #28
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Perhaps Quinn requiring accountability from each and every player is what's causing the issues. After all, "team leaders" Ethan, Shawn, and Steve experienced nothing of the sort under the previous coach. Maybe that's what their venting was: "Can't we just go back to blaming Penner and Nilsson for every loss?"

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11-22-2009, 03:39 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by -Ryan- View Post
Sorry, I find this hilarious. The Oilers have a 90-minute meeting with the guys wearing letters and the common response is, "this team has chosen to lose."

Wow.

We have no idea what was said in that room today, but apparently some have it entirely figured out by selecting one quoted sentence from Shawn Horcoff.
It is not to be expected? People isn't there enough negative around here to start looking for things?

Horcoff said nothing after that meeting that deserved criticism.

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11-22-2009, 03:39 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Ryan you would know its "not just one sentence" its the whole culture of losing that Quinn has spoken volumes about since he's come here and that the fans have seen here seemingly forever. Or of the passive resistance to direction this group has exhibited for years.

Its a bit dismissive of you to say one sentence. Although it is a sentence that jumped off the page for its inappropriateness. By Horcoff no less.
It is just one sentence because you're not acknowledging what was actually said in the 90-minute meeting (which we don't know).

That culture was hopefully being worked on the meeting. I have confidence that this is the case.

This is why I don't like the media reporting on these meetings. They're meant to be kept private and you don't get much substance when you question people following it.

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11-22-2009, 03:40 PM
  #31
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If the Oilers coaching staff and players felt that this meeting was destructive and not positive, I'd be suspect that it'd be posted complete with interviews on their own webpage.

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11-22-2009, 03:50 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MePutPuckInNet View Post
http://oilers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?...id=DL|EDM|home

I wish I was a tiny little flea on the wall of this meeting. Do you think it's going to help?
No.

Not until this group of losers stops wearing their panties to games and actually starts doing something to earn their multi-million dollar salaries.

Not until the idiots in the front office stop worrying about public image and new arenas and starts actually making some player moves to shore up the shortcomings and weaknesses in the roster that everyone else in the universe has known have been problems here for the last 36 months.

Not until our absentee owner pulls his head out of his ass and realizes that his new toy needs some serious fixing before it's worth the money he paid for it.



Dammit, cheering for the Oilers is like being in an abusive relationship.

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11-22-2009, 03:52 PM
  #33
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Will this meeting really change anything? How many meetings did the prior coaching regime have with these guys? How many times did they get ripped in the media, and to what effect? There seemed to be a general consensus at the end of last season, on both the players' and fans' sides, that the players had tuned out MacT and co. Management capitulated, acceded to the this and changed virtually the entire coaching staff except for one holdover.

Now, this season we are seeing them revert back to the same form after a great start -- zero consistency, zero effort and heart, with seemingly no professionalism i.e. no care in the world how it plays out in terms of losses. And Quinn, who came in with fresh eyes and what I am assuming are professional, non biased views, is singing the same damn tune as MacT (who is looking vindicated on several points). As someone pointed out, the attitudes smack of a sense of entitlement and privilege, where frankly it should be one of gratitude and hard work. Just because you've made it to the NHL and established yourself, you can now coast by because, hey, you have your millions of dollars to comfort you after losses? Where exactly is the professional pride?

Culture change is not going to happen. This...I dunno what you even want to call it, endemic laziness and laissez-faire attitude is not going to be removed until you excise the roster. The problem with that is no one is making trades. Hands are tied everywhere because of the poor decision making of GMs in terms of contracts, including ours. So we are stuck with some of these perennial losers until we lose them through natural attrition or UFA status.

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11-22-2009, 03:52 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Sounds like the players aren't too happy about the public scoldings.
Then this bunch of babies can ****** off. If you're making millions of dollars a year to play at f**king exercising, you should be able to buy skin thick enough to deal with someone maybe taking a potshot at your f**king fragile ego.

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11-22-2009, 03:53 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Ryan- View Post
It is just one sentence because you're not acknowledging what was actually said in the 90-minute meeting (which we don't know).

That culture was hopefully being worked on the meeting. I have confidence that this is the case.

This is why I don't like the media reporting on these meetings. They're meant to be kept private and you don't get much substance when you question people following it.
I won't respond to your other post because I think that was more a reaction to mine.
I will say that its evident that Horcoff DID vent in the meeting as he said so and I similarly believe theres no specific right at this point for him to do so.
If you've underachieved to the degree that he has that he has basically no license to be opening his yap. Again, in meetings this is usually common sense inferred.

Hopefully the culture is being worked on Ryan but its 23games in and the Oilers unravelled in minutes against a "B" Blackhawks performance on home ice. The team did everything but go on one knee and ask for clemency and mercy.

It was evident from the start of that game the Oil were convince they were the nail that the hawks would be pounding.

Seemingly they felt about as much possibility of competing in that game as their fans voiced in the GDT.

Maybe they're just realists too

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11-22-2009, 03:55 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
Perhaps Quinn requiring accountability from each and every player is what's causing the issues. After all, "team leaders" Ethan, Shawn, and Steve experienced nothing of the sort under the previous coach. Maybe that's what their venting was: "Can't we just go back to blaming Penner and Nilsson for every loss?"
I think that's been overlooked in this thread. Although all of the players showed up at Rexall this am, this "team meeting" did not include all the players. It was the core leadership group. To me, this is different from a typical "chewing out" session or even a closed door gripe session. I think this was about the culture of the team and how to change it.

Of course, I wasn't there....but my speculation about this meeting is based on who was and wasn't involved in it...I find that to be it a little more interesting and maybe more telling.

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11-22-2009, 03:56 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Ryan you would know its "not just one sentence" its the whole culture of losing that Quinn has spoken volumes about since he's come here and that the fans have seen here seemingly forever. Or of the passive resistance to direction this group has exhibited for years.

Its a bit dismissive of you to say one sentence. Although it is a sentence that jumped off the page for its inappropriateness. By Horcoff no less.
You are too quick to judge IMO. You can't possibly know what Horc was even venting about; could be he was venting on officials, ice time, team mates, the weather, etc.

And the communication has to be a 2 way street, you can't expect the players to listen and buy in if it isn't a collaborative effort.

Now with all of that said they have to be better. So I would hope they take heed to what the coaching staff is telling them.

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11-22-2009, 03:57 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Horcoff:



I read the above and can't help but think entitlement is automatic with this bunch.
As if they're made men in the NHL and you treat us nice or we'll have things to vent about because we're "professionals".

jebus "professional" infers that you are reliable and get the job done. These pro's on the Oilers haven't earned jack squat. Certainly not the right to question things and have significant input.

Its time for the players here for once to listen to instruction and apply it. Not to feel hard done by..

What in hell would the players be venting about?


Part of the problem here with this bunch is that losing simply requires less effort and dedication than winning. Losing once *obtained* becomes the easiest path of least resistance. If you have a team that have accepted that losing is OK and are prepared to voice any continual excuse for it its tough to overcome.

When I first looked at this thread I thought it was a players only meeting and that they would be going over a fresh list of excuses.

It was actually my first thought. Cynical but....
****ing NOTHING. ARRRGHGHDSLKJASDLKJSDFKJL I'm so sick of the sense of entitlement that this bunch of playoff-missing losers think they should have. Horcoff can cram that type of thinking right back up the ass it crawled out of.

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11-22-2009, 03:57 PM
  #39
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After watching the interview with Horcoff its clear that he was just making the point clear that the lines of communication were open between players and staff and that they could share their on ice observations. I really dont see this as the players feeling a sense of entitlement

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11-22-2009, 04:00 PM
  #40
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Didnt help last year. Is Moreau one of the leaders? Who is going to listen to that guy? We need roster changes.
Captain Moreau was telling his teammates not to take bad penalties, especially the offensive zone ones, also not to turn the puck over, and get into proper position because he could not find anyone to pass to otherwise he has to keep shooting the puck from bad angles....

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11-22-2009, 04:03 PM
  #41
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After watching the interview with Horcoff its clear that he was just making the point clear that the lines of communication were open between players and staff and that they could share their on ice observations. I really dont see this as the players feeling a sense of entitlement
yes, that's how it sounded to me. Once again, a bunch of people over reacting on this board and missing the point entirely.....

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11-22-2009, 04:07 PM
  #42
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The general work force should have very little direct correlation with professional sports. The psyche of an athlete required to operate at peak performance day in day out is on a different planet from the performance required by a machine worker or an oil & gas executive.
Except one little portion that everyone *should* be bringing to their jobs, regardless of what they do: effort and hard work. You are excusing them on the basis that they are elite and require different mindsets to do their jobs. All the talent and technical skill in the world will not avail you anything without hard work.

Don't make excuses for them. If they are so special, their knowledge so sacred and esoteric, then they wouldn't need the advice or counsel of doctors, trainers, or the support staff that tend to their daily routines. They are regular guys who happened to show a natural talent with the game, and up until they made it to the NHL (at least with this group on our team) honed their abilities through hard work and dedication to their craft. I don't really think it's all that different than other people who train for years to get better at something, as a means of earning their keep in life. They are nowhere near as special or precious as you make them out to be. Give your head a shake.

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11-22-2009, 04:10 PM
  #43
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You are too quick to judge IMO. You can't possibly know what Horc was even venting about; could be he was venting on officials, ice time, team mates, the weather, etc.

And the communication has to be a 2 way street, you can't expect the players to listen and buy in if it isn't a collaborative effort.

Now with all of that said they have to be better. So I would hope they take heed to what the coaching staff is telling them.
Horcoff describes the communication as a give and take level playing field communication. Of his input being as important as Quinns in the moment to achieve some sense of resonant harmony

Horcoff is describing an inclusive, fact finding, meeting of heads meeting. He's describing a pleasant unintrusive meeting. A business as usual regular meeting.

Judging from the coaching staffs increasing narratives about the team and players not knowing anything about winning and reversion to habits to achieve losing I seriously doubt this was meant as a two way communication meeting with a percieved equal party.

That Horcoff thinks so may reduce how much input from the coaches is received because the players feel they are on equal standing of giving input.

Remember this is the same group of players that just succeeded in getting a coach fired and all too recently praised the new coaching staff effusively.

In this context the players would have very little credibility airing their concerns at this point.

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11-22-2009, 04:12 PM
  #44
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No.

Not until this group of losers stops wearing their panties to games and actually starts doing something to earn their multi-million dollar salaries.

Not until the idiots in the front office stop worrying about public image and new arenas and starts actually making some player moves to shore up the shortcomings and weaknesses in the roster that everyone else in the universe has known have been problems here for the last 36 months.

Not until our absentee owner pulls his head out of his ass and realizes that his new toy needs some serious fixing before it's worth the money he paid for it.



Dammit, cheering for the Oilers is like being in an abusive relationship.
This post /thread.

I wouldn't put the blame much on Katz [though his friendly friendly relationship with select players on the team does draw some ire from fans]. I still think it begins and ends with Lowe. He built this POS and left it for Tambo to clean up. Unless Katz is going to swallow salary in the minors, we're pretty much stuck like this for a while. I know Lowe isn't the GM anymore but he kind of leaves this "residual" effect IMO

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11-22-2009, 04:14 PM
  #45
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After watching the interview with Horcoff its clear that he was just making the point clear that the lines of communication were open between players and staff and that they could share their on ice observations. I really dont see this as the players feeling a sense of entitlement
From what we have seen on the ice last year, Mactavish's face said it all really, and the reactions on the bench of Quinn, as well as his comments, it is clear that the players are just not listening. I dont see how this meeting is going to change that. And it would appear that we are stuck with them. Its a fine mess.

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11-22-2009, 04:15 PM
  #46
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I think its fine for the players to vent in a meeting like this. I think the purpose is to get both sides on the same page. I'd be more upset if the players were not venting, they should be and clearly are frustrated.

you guys are all crazy

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Old
11-22-2009, 04:15 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by -Ryan- View Post
The highlight of Quinn's post-game comments last night focused on changing the culture on this team. What has been acceptable over the past few years cannot be acceptable today. He looked at the Hawks and praised them for the way they were able to change their culture.

That usually requires more than just on-ice practice. It requires commitment from everyone in the dressing room so that they can become that unit when they do step on the ice.

It can do nothing but good.
Is Quinn a heart surgeon? ready make a historical 22 heart transplants in on day?>

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11-22-2009, 04:16 PM
  #48
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Will this meeting really change anything? How many meetings did the prior coaching regime have with these guys? How many times did they get ripped in the media, and to what effect? There seemed to be a general consensus at the end of last season, on both the players' and fans' sides, that the players had tuned out MacT and co. Management capitulated, acceded to the this and changed virtually the entire coaching staff except for one holdover.

Now, this season we are seeing them revert back to the same form after a great start -- zero consistency, zero effort and heart, with seemingly no professionalism i.e. no care in the world how it plays out in terms of losses. And Quinn, who came in with fresh eyes and what I am assuming are professional, non biased views, is singing the same damn tune as MacT (who is looking vindicated on several points). As someone pointed out, the attitudes smack of a sense of entitlement and privilege, where frankly it should be one of gratitude and hard work. Just because you've made it to the NHL and established yourself, you can now coast by because, hey, you have your millions of dollars to comfort you after losses? Where exactly is the professional pride?

Culture change is not going to happen. This...I dunno what you even want to call it, endemic laziness and laissez-faire attitude is not going to be removed until you excise the roster. The problem with that is no one is making trades. Hands are tied everywhere because of the poor decision making of GMs in terms of contracts, including ours. So we are stuck with some of these perennial losers until we lose them through natural attrition or UFA status.
Id say the team doesn't need a shake up, needs an explosion [implosion?]. Best way to start- waive the captain. "Classless" to some but a shake up AND, more inportantly to HF, clears salary. Should send a message. I'd like to throw in Gilbert and PoS too.

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11-22-2009, 04:26 PM
  #49
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The highlight of Quinn's post-game comments last night focused on changing the culture on this team. What has been acceptable over the past few years cannot be acceptable today. He looked at the Hawks and praised them for the way they were able to change their culture.

That usually requires more than just on-ice practice. It requires commitment from everyone in the dressing room so that they can become that unit when they do step on the ice.

It can do nothing but good.
It also usually requires talent, which to no fault of their own we are a little shy on....

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11-22-2009, 04:37 PM
  #50
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Id say the team doesn't need a shake up, needs an explosion [implosion?]. Best way to start- waive the captain. "Classless" to some but a shake up AND, more inportantly to HF, clears salary. Should send a message. I'd like to throw in Gilbert and PoS too.
I agree that Moreau should be waived, but I don't think the team needs a huge shakeup. There has been tons of turnover in players over the last couple of years. Changing the culture of the team requires the jettisoning of veterans. Fortunately, we have very few veterans who've been here long enough to be a big part of the negative culture. Ditching Moreau, Staios, Pisani, and Horcoff would likely be more than enough to change the culture here. I said in preseason that I was disappointed that those first three were still members of the team (Horcoff too, but that's a bigger issue), and my thoughts have not changed.

Basically it looks like Pisani is done anyway. Moreau can probably snag a draft pick from somebody, as can Staios. The only problem is toughness on the back end if you ditch Staios, so hopefully Tambo could pick up a similar defender from somebody else. I'd love to see Horcoff shipped out, his salary makes a trade near impossible though. I will begrudgingly admit that he's too valuable to just be placed on waivers right now, but if we were to fall out of playoff contention that would certainly become a viable option.

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