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Old
11-22-2009, 08:30 PM
  #51
stempniaksen
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Where the hell does that leave Campoli though? (Not saying thats any reason we dont pull the trigger though)

Phillips - Volchenkov
Barker - Kuba
Carkner - Campoli

That would be a decent top-six, but most of these guys are signed beyond this year. Lots of moves will have to be made to get Karlsson, Lee, Cowen and Wiercioch into the lineup for the next few years.

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11-22-2009, 08:32 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stempniaksen View Post
Where the hell does that leave Campoli though? (Not saying thats any reason we dont pull the trigger though)

Phillips - Volchenkov
Barker - Kuba
Carkner - Campoli

That would be a decent top-six, but most of these guys are signed beyond this year. Lots of moves will have to be made to get Karlsson, Lee, Cowen and Wiercioch into the lineup for the next few years.
Philchenkov
Lee-Kuba
Karlsson-Cowen

Barker will go Via Free agency

I would really like to see a Kuba-Lee Pairing

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Old
11-22-2009, 08:35 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stempniaksen View Post
Where the hell does that leave Campoli though? (Not saying thats any reason we dont pull the trigger though)

Phillips - Volchenkov
Barker - Kuba
Carkner - Campoli

That would be a decent top-six, but most of these guys are signed beyond this year. Lots of moves will have to be made to get Karlsson, Lee, Cowen and Wiercioch into the lineup for the next few years.
It's tough to say.. trading for Barker might mean we won't need to rush Cowen immediately next year, unless he blows us all out of the water.. Campoli might just sign for 1 year and battle Karlsson for the last spot. Wiercioch is a few years away.. Of course, Volchenkov would need to be re-signed..he just has to

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Old
11-22-2009, 08:36 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach 9 View Post
Philchenkov
Lee-Kuba
Karlsson-Cowen

Barker will go Via Free agency

I would really like to see a Kuba-Lee Pairing
Can't.. Barker's signed on for 2 more years after this season..

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Old
11-22-2009, 08:43 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masterandy View Post
Can't.. Barker's signed on for 2 more years after this season..
I guess I missed something... In that case, Let Cowen develop, and Unless he truly plays great at training camp, keep the line-up as is.

If Cowen does blow us out of the waters, then trade Barker away for hopefully a top 6 forward

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Old
11-22-2009, 08:54 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Then what?

Kuba -
Phillips - Karlsson?
Barker - Carkner
Campoli -
Picard -

We have a better offensive, bottom pairing defenseman whose contract makes it nearly impossible to fit Volchenkov into the salary structure next season. Yay!
I think Karlsson and Cowen fill those spots next season... with Cowen's size and physicality, I think he should be able to step in and play 20mins a night no problem.

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Old
11-22-2009, 10:32 PM
  #57
trentmccleary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sensfan83 View Post
I think Karlsson and Cowen fill those spots next season... with Cowen's size and physicality, I think he should be able to step in and play 20mins a night no problem.
Karlsson is already tentatively in that lineup and adding another rookie in Cowen will more than likely make our defense that much worse in the short term.

Cowen could be 9 foot 7 for all I care, we shouldn't screw up the lineup leaving holes all over the place expecting him to be a Top-4 D-man until he proves he is one. He starts playing for a few years and turns into Wade Belak (13th overall, '94)... then what?

How about we wait until we have 4 or 5 Top-4 D-men instead of 3 before we worry about getting rid of them. We don't need Barker and there's still a pretty good chance that neither Cowen, nor Karlsson make the team next year either.

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Old
11-22-2009, 10:43 PM
  #58
stempniaksen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Karlsson is already tentatively in that lineup and adding another rookie in Cowen will more than likely make our defense that much worse in the short term.

Cowen could be 9 foot 7 for all I care, we shouldn't screw up the lineup leaving holes all over the place expecting him to be a Top-4 D-man until he proves he is one. He starts playing for a few years and turns into Wade Belak (13th overall, '94)... then what?

How about we wait until we have 4 or 5 Top-4 D-men instead of 3 before we worry about getting rid of them. We don't need Barker and there's still a pretty good chance that neither Cowen, nor Karlsson make the team next year either.
The bolded statements contradict each other...

Cam Barker is a top-four defenceman on most NHL teams, yet we don't need him?

I know you're a big proponent of a defenceman playing on the same side that he shoots, but why pass up a chance on Barker if the price is right? (pun unintentional)

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Old
11-22-2009, 11:19 PM
  #59
trentmccleary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stempniaksen View Post
The bolded statements contradict each other...

Cam Barker is a top-four defenceman on most NHL teams, yet we don't need him?

I know you're a big proponent of a defenceman playing on the same side that he shoots, but why pass up a chance on Barker if the price is right? (pun unintentional)
Not really, I'm just a big believer that we should have some better balance. I'm not looking for 3L-3R.

I'm just saying that right now; only 3 of our Top10 D-men/D-assets are right handed, we're playing D-men out of position to cover it up and the play of some of them seems to have suffered. Those 3 D-men are bottom pairing Carkner, may-not-make-the-team-next-year-either Karlsson and probably-doesn't-have-a-future-here Lee. If we only had 1 righty and he was a 25 minute a night all-star (and Volchenkov were one of the LH's), I wouldn't care about anybody else. But as it stands, we're not far off of playing a lineup with 6 lefties... with 2 of whom are struggling to handle the switch.

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Old
11-22-2009, 11:38 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Not really, I'm just a big believer that we should have some better balance. I'm not looking for 3L-3R.

I'm just saying that right now; only 3 of our Top10 D-men/D-assets are right handed, we're playing D-men out of position to cover it up and the play of some of them seems to have suffered. Those 3 D-men are bottom pairing Carkner, may-not-make-the-team-next-year-either Karlsson and probably-doesn't-have-a-future-here Lee. If we only had 1 righty and he was a 25 minute a night all-star (and Volchenkov were one of the LH's), I wouldn't care about anybody else. But as it stands, we're not far off of playing a lineup with 6 lefties... with 2 of whom are struggling to handle the switch.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but if we can get Barker for (basically) our trash, it's a deal we have to pull the trigger on (even if it leaves us with too many lefties).

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Old
11-22-2009, 11:39 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
To Ott
D Cam Barker

To Chi
D Brian Lee
D Patrick Wiercioch
2nd round pick
Wiercioch is a keeper. His potential is huge, would be a mistake to trade him

Lee + 2nd is already good value. Don't forget about the cap too. 3.08333 for a couple years vs 1.275 then RFA. Lee won't get a raise, Hawks would save a lot there.

Unless you were talking about Keith?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stempniaksen View Post
Where the hell does that leave Campoli though? (Not saying thats any reason we dont pull the trigger though)

Phillips - Volchenkov
Barker - Kuba
Carkner - Campoli

That would be a decent top-six, but most of these guys are signed beyond this year. Lots of moves will have to be made to get Karlsson, Lee, Cowen and Wiercioch into the lineup for the next few years.
Kuba - Volchenkov
Phillips - Barker
Cowen - Karlsson
Carkner

Lee, Picard and Campoli will be RFAs. Obviously, 1 of them would go to Chicago in the trade so the other 2 could be traded in the off-season IF both Cowen and Karlsson are NHL ready. Or Barker if we decide to go with Lee.

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Old
11-22-2009, 11:44 PM
  #62
stempniaksen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
Wiercioch is a keeper. His potential is huge, would be a mistake to trade him

Lee + 2nd is already good value. Don't forget about the cap too. 3.08333 for a couple years vs 1.275 then RFA. Lee won't get a raise, Hawks would save a lot there.

Unless you were talking about Keith?



Kuba - Volchenkov
Phillips - Barker
Cowen - Karlsson
Carkner

Lee, Picard and Campoli will be RFAs. Obviously, 1 of them would go to Chicago in the trade so the other 2 could be traded in the off-season IF both Cowen and Karlsson are NHL ready. Or Barker if we decide to go with Lee.
Recipe for disaster, but I agree with most of the rest of your post.

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Old
11-23-2009, 12:09 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post


Kuba - Volchenkov
Phillips - Barker
Cowen - Karlsson
Carkner


Lee, Picard and Campoli will be RFAs. Obviously, 1 of them would go to Chicago in the trade so the other 2 could be traded in the off-season IF both Cowen and Karlsson are NHL ready. Or Barker if we decide to go with Lee.

Pairing two rookie defensemens together, would be the worst thing for their development. We don't have the need to rush Cowen either, I rather he develops a bit more of his offensive touch before attaining a roster spot. Carkner is doing fine in his role as the 5/6th defenseman. I would much rather have him in the line-up then rushing Cowen.

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Old
11-23-2009, 07:34 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karlssonlee View Post
Pairing two rookie defensemens together, would be the worst thing for their development. We don't have the need to rush Cowen either, I rather he develops a bit more of his offensive touch before attaining a roster spot. Carkner is doing fine in his role as the 5/6th defenseman. I would much rather have him in the line-up then rushing Cowen.
yup agreed

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Old
11-23-2009, 08:23 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stempniaksen View Post
Recipe for disaster, but I agree with most of the rest of your post.
haha we went through this already. I just paired the "logical depht chart" pairings, but that doesn't mean it would shape up like that, too many uncertainties at this point with Volchenkov needing an extension and a couple decisions needed on RFAs (Lee, Picard, Campoli)

Phillips - Barker
Kuba - Karlsson
Cowen - Volchenkov
Carkner

Maybe that would make more sense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karlssonlee View Post
Pairing two rookie defensemens together, would be the worst thing for their development. We don't have the need to rush Cowen either, I rather he develops a bit more of his offensive touch before attaining a roster spot. Carkner is doing fine in his role as the 5/6th defenseman. I would much rather have him in the line-up then rushing Cowen.
See above.

I think there at least 95% of chances that Cowen is ready after next training camp. If it wasn't for his injury last year, he would probably play in the NHL right now. He was scheduled to be a Top-3 pick before his injury, so if you look at all the young guys (18-19 y/o) playing in the NHL actually, you gotta ask yourself why not Cowen? lol, this wouldn't be "rushing" Cowen, he will be 19 years and 8 months old (almost 20) at the start of the 2010-2011 season.

Karlsson is not as a sure thing IMO (but the chances are still quite high, maybe 80%). It will depend on his development this year (particulary his defensive game) and his body growth until the training camp. If the organization feel that he needs more time, they won't put him in the line-up and keep one of Campoli, Lee and Picard for 1 more year.

And i did say this in my original post :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
Lee, Picard and Campoli will be RFAs. Obviously, 1 of them would go to Chicago in the trade so the other 2 could be traded in the off-season IF both Cowen and Karlsson are NHL ready. Or Barker if we decide to go with Lee.
Hopefully, i gave enough explications.

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Old
11-23-2009, 10:37 AM
  #66
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one more thing to consider re karlsson, cowen, and wiercioch: there wont be any bonus overages next year, as the CBA officially ends after next season (with a players? option to extend another year). Under a hard cap, karlsson stands for 1.2M all year, lee the same, and i presume cowen's contract will be higher (comparable to alzner's 1.6M).

if the sens do trade for barker, it could make sense to keep one of campoli/picard as a bottom pairing defenceman only because cap hit (i cant imagine either getting that much money).

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Old
11-23-2009, 10:49 AM
  #67
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Seems like Chicago would only do this deal if they can move both Barker and Sopel to Ottawa.

Just like the Sharks gave up Ehrhoff (Barker) and Lukowich (Sopel) for White (Picard, more the center of the deal for Chicago's POV) and Rahimi (Shannon)

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11-23-2009, 10:56 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Running Riot View Post
Seems like Chicago would only do this deal if they can move both Barker and Sopel to Ottawa.

Just like the Sharks gave up Ehrhoff (Barker) and Lukowich (Sopel) for White (Picard, more the center of the deal for Chicago's POV) and Rahimi (Shannon)
well, i know we certainly cant afford sopel next year on the cap if we want to keep volchenkov, so i have to wonder whether melnyk would be willing to spend 2.3M on him in the minors.

another alternative would be buyouts of sopel and cheechoo to free up some space. Their buyouts together would count 2M next year and 1.666M the year after on the cap, saving 3.3M on next year's cap.

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