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Old
11-22-2009, 04:40 PM
  #26
sammyp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
I would do that.
I don't want any part of Stempniak.

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Old
11-22-2009, 04:51 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by sammyp View Post
I don't want any part of Stempniak.
Why? He's basically a cheaper version of Lupul.

The Leafs won't trade Kaberle because it will cost too much money to replace him.

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Old
11-22-2009, 04:54 PM
  #28
Joey Moss
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If Anaheim got Kaberle and gave up their first it likely wouldn't be 3rd overall at the end of the season.. just saying.

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Old
11-22-2009, 05:03 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
Why? He's basically a cheaper version of Lupul.

The Leafs won't trade Kaberle because it will cost too much money to replace him.
Lupul and Stempniak aren't really comparable at all, actually. He's signed for 2.5 million and will become a free agent at the conclusion of the year. That really does nothing for Anaheim at this point. The Ducks would be better off retaining their assets and adding a simple stay-at-home guy and a third line winger for a couple mid-round picks and/or B-level prospects.

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Old
11-22-2009, 05:29 PM
  #30
SFKingshomer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sammyp View Post
Lupul and Stempniak aren't really comparable at all, actually. He's signed for 2.5 million and will become a free agent at the conclusion of the year. That really does nothing for Anaheim at this point. The Ducks would be better off retaining their assets and adding a simple stay-at-home guy and a third line winger for a couple mid-round picks and/or B-level prospects.
They're both soft, 1 dimensional wingers with inflated contracts.

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Old
11-22-2009, 05:36 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
Why? He's basically a cheaper version of Lupul.

The Leafs won't trade Kaberle because it will cost too much money to replace him.
I think Stempniak is better all around than Lupul is, but that Lupul will likely end up with more points this year.

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Old
11-22-2009, 05:36 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sammyp View Post
Lupul and Stempniak aren't really comparable at all, actually. He's signed for 2.5 million and will become a free agent at the conclusion of the year.
Exactly, he comes off the books at the end of the year so the Ducks can spend what they would have been paying Lupul on a decent upgrade. I think Lupul has greatly improved his two way game and is no longer a soft one dimensional player anymore but he's worth giving up to acquire a guy of Kaberles calibre.

If anything, it gives the Ducks a decent top pairing defenseman signed for next year with a few good years left in him. It's far better than relying on Whitney and Wisniewski to carry the load.

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Old
11-22-2009, 07:47 PM
  #33
Sean Garrity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
They're both soft, 1 dimensional wingers with inflated contracts.
Lupul hasn't been soft, or 1 dimensional whatsoever this year.

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Old
11-22-2009, 07:50 PM
  #34
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While I like Kaberle and wouldn't mind him on the top pairing long-term, do we really need another offensive defenseman? And while Boynton isn't good, we do need someone back there who is physical and can sort of clear the crease.

It also seems like Philadelphia's 1st is more in line valuewise than Anaheim's. The standard trade deadline package for a top player is a low 1st, a good but not elite prospect, and a good but not great young roster player. Now you're adding a much higher 1st (top 5 as of now, but probably more like 15th or so if the team improves).

I'd rather base a trade around Whitney. The extra pieces would probably have to go up accordingly. Like say a Holland.

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Old
11-22-2009, 07:57 PM
  #35
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So the goal is for the Ducks to have the softest Defense in NHL history?

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Old
11-22-2009, 08:52 PM
  #36
GordieHoweHatTrick
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It's a decent proposal but if Lupul is involved, I think a roster forward has to be coming back & replace Mitera with college prospect, Jake Gardiner. An offensive minded defensive prospect should be coming back for Kaberle.

Lupul, Boynton, 1st & Gardiner
for
Kaberle, Stempniak

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Old
11-22-2009, 09:59 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
It's a decent proposal but if Lupul is involved, I think a roster forward has to be coming back & replace Mitera with college prospect, Jake Gardiner. An offensive minded defensive prospect should be coming back for Kaberle.

Lupul, Boynton, 1st & Gardiner
for
Kaberle, Stempniak
No ty, i'd rather keep gardiner...
I'm not down for this trade.. I like loops, and we need boynton.. our first is quite valuable right now.. so no ty.. besides we have no need for kaberle, we need a shut-down defenceman not another puck mover

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Old
11-23-2009, 12:42 AM
  #38
Vinegar Strokes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
They're both soft, 1 dimensional wingers with inflated contracts.
Haven't been watching much of Lupul this season I see.

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Old
11-23-2009, 12:58 AM
  #39
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Hell no. Leafs would rather tank with Kaberle than tank without him but get some value in return to go towards the future.

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Old
11-23-2009, 01:17 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
They're both soft, 1 dimensional wingers with inflated contracts.
You haven't seen Lupul play this year -- and don't even try to refute that.

It's not like Lupul is untouchable by any means, but I don't think his contract is terrible at all. Carlyle just needs to give him some actual linemates.

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Old
11-23-2009, 12:58 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sammyp View Post
You haven't seen Lupul play this year -- and don't even try to refute that.

It's not like Lupul is untouchable by any means, but I don't think his contract is terrible at all. Carlyle just needs to give him some actual linemates.
Even consistent would be an ugprade. Guys gets shuffled 3 times a game. Slightly overpaid but I think we should keep him. He's become a much better 2 way player than I would have ever expected.

I think Whitney has been a big F as PP QB, but like other have said our bigger needs is a defensive d-man (like Komisarek or Beach).

If we were to make a move for Kaberle I'd want to replace him w/ Whitney (not in addition too).

Whitney + Philly 1st + Anaheim 2nd + Mitera

4

Beach + Kaberle?

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Old
11-23-2009, 01:05 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by caliamad View Post
Even consistent would be an ugprade. Guys gets shuffled 3 times a game. Slightly overpaid but I think we should keep him. He's become a much better 2 way player than I would have ever expected.

I think Whitney has been a big F as PP QB, but like other have said our bigger needs is a defensive d-man (like Komisarek or Beach).

If we were to make a move for Kaberle I'd want to replace him w/ Whitney (not in addition too).

Whitney + Philly 1st + Anaheim 2nd + Mitera

4

Beach + Kaberle?
Why on earth would we trade for Beauchemin when we could have signed him in the off season? The Beauchemin we knew had a lot to do with Niedermayer.

Lupul does not have a spot on this team.

- Lupul did not mesh well with Selanne and Koivu.
- It appears Artyukhin has found a spot on the second line.
- We do not have the personnel for three scoring lines.

The Ducks should package Lupul for a top 4 defense man.

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Old
11-23-2009, 01:05 PM
  #43
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Anyone else think it would just be plain wrong to deal Lupul AGAIN in a deal like this? That would suck.

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Old
11-23-2009, 01:10 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
Why on earth would we trade for Beauchemin when we could have signed him in the off season? The Beauchemin we knew had a lot to do with Niedermayer.

Lupul does not have a spot on this team.

- Lupul did not mesh well with Selanne and Koivu.
- It appears Artyukhin has found a spot on the second line.
- We do not have the personnel for three scoring lines.

The Ducks should package Lupul for a top 4 defense man.
R2 has a few good games and you ready to trade away Lupul? R2 is the definition of inconsistency.

I think even Murray would say he made a mistake letting him go. Beach signed a reasonable deal, but we didn't have the cap space to keep him and sign Koivu.

I realized we still wouldn't have the cap space in the above deal so likely Lupul or Giguere would need to be included. I'd definitely be willing to send more if they take Giguere over lupul.

We may have not have the personal for 3 scoring lines but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. I still advocate for a 3rd line of Ryan, Marchant, Lupul and put calder on 1st line w/ Getzlaf/Perry. Even a Calder, Machant, Lupul 3rd line would be better an option.

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Old
11-23-2009, 02:16 PM
  #45
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- Mark Mitera had a disappointing camp. He is slower than molasses going uphill in January. I'll be shocked if he ever becomes something more than a #5-6 defense man.
Almost like he suffered a traumatic knee injury last season and rushed back to rejoin his team in his final year at college. Oh wait...

As a Ducks fan who must have noticed how significantly better Brendan Morrison is playing this year and that Brendan Mikkelson wasn't really effective until the 2007 Memorial Cup after his injury in 2006, I would have thought that you would be familiar with the extended time that it takes to come back from a torn ACL and that even if the player is skating a regular shift, it hardly means that they are 100% or anywhere near the level that they were at prior to the injury.

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Old
11-23-2009, 03:09 PM
  #46
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We'll just give you Toskala for Giguere straight up.

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Old
11-23-2009, 05:54 PM
  #47
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With Selanne supposedly in his last season, I'd rather hang on to Lupul. I think Selanne will probably play longer, but you never know, and Lupul has shown a lot of improvement, he just happens to be the odd man out right now.

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Old
11-23-2009, 06:34 PM
  #48
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R2 has a few good games and you ready to trade away Lupul? R2 is the definition of inconsistency.

I think even Murray would say he made a mistake letting him go. Beach signed a reasonable deal, but we didn't have the cap space to keep him and sign Koivu.

I realized we still wouldn't have the cap space in the above deal so likely Lupul or Giguere would need to be included. I'd definitely be willing to send more if they take Giguere over lupul.

We may have not have the personal for 3 scoring lines but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. I still advocate for a 3rd line of Ryan, Marchant, Lupul and put calder on 1st line w/ Getzlaf/Perry. Even a Calder, Machant, Lupul 3rd line would be better an option.
Lupul did not mesh with Selanne and Koivu.

Beauchemin has played bad during the games I have watched. Hopefully a Toronto fan can chime in.

Why take apart one of the best lines in hockey? You don't take a potential 40 goal scorer and put him on the third line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Forbes View Post
Almost like he suffered a traumatic knee injury last season and rushed back to rejoin his team in his final year at college. Oh wait...

As a Ducks fan who must have noticed how significantly better Brendan Morrison is playing this year and that Brendan Mikkelson wasn't really effective until the 2007 Memorial Cup after his injury in 2006, I would have thought that you would be familiar with the extended time that it takes to come back from a torn ACL and that even if the player is skating a regular shift, it hardly means that they are 100% or anywhere near the level that they were at prior to the injury.
Are you trying to tell me that Mitera will somehow learn how to skate? Morrison was bad, but he still knew how to skate after his knee injury. Mitera... not so much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Degenerate191 View Post
With Selanne supposedly in his last season, I'd rather hang on to Lupul. I think Selanne will probably play longer, but you never know, and Lupul has shown a lot of improvement, he just happens to be the odd man out right now.
Lupul has shown improvement, but he is still not worth his contract.

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Old
11-23-2009, 06:44 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
Lupul did not mesh with Selanne and Koivu.

Beauchemin has played bad during the games I have watched. Hopefully a Toronto fan can chime in.

Why take apart one of the best lines in hockey? You don't take a potential 40 goal scorer and put him on the third line.



Are you trying to tell me that Mitera will somehow learn how to skate? Morrison was bad, but he still knew how to skate after his knee injury. Mitera... not so much.



Lupul has shown improvement, but he is still not worth his contract.
Brendan Morrison is a veteran and considered a very good skater before his injury. You can't compare him with a prospect. I don't see any reason why Mitera couldn't be just as good as Salei for instance. He was considered a pretty mobile defenseman when he was drafted considering size and being a defensive defenseman. He has done nothing to proof he's a bust.

He has more upside than Salei had for the offensive game as he's quite a good passer. When drafted people would expect him to be a defensive defenseman who could put up 25-30 points a year. I don't see why he shouldn't be able to be a constant 20 point scorer in the future while being good defensively. I can buy the argument trading him because he holds some value, but not because he's looking to become a bust.

I think most would have expected him to play some games this season. But now he's more likely to make his debute next year. So he's not that off the schedule, especially considering the time he missed.

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Old
11-23-2009, 09:53 PM
  #50
Kevin Forbes
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Are you trying to tell me that Mitera will somehow learn how to skate? Morrison was bad, but he still knew how to skate after his knee injury. Mitera... not so much.
From my experience covering Mitera as the Anaheim writer for Hockey's Future, Mitera's skating was never specifically targeted as a deficiency, including, but not limited to, the time I interviewed his Michigan coach, Red Berenson in 2008. Berenson did not mince words when talking about either Mitera or fellow Wolverine/Duck prospect Kampfer and so, going by that vouch of confidence as well as the other knowledge that I have attained through witnessing, researching and interviewing....yes. Yes, I am telling you that Mitera will "somehow learn how to skate."

I firmly believe that your quick judgement of Mitera based on this season alone (of which he has played just 13 games and also the couple weeks that he spent in training camp) is in error. I don't think it is fair to the prospect to write him off so quickly considering both his pedigree and his injury. I can almost guarantee that Anaheim is not thinking less of him and are in it for the long haul with Mitera.

I previously gave two examples of players familiar with the Ducks organization who suffered similar traumatic knee injuries who spent almost a year before they were back in solid game condition.

But that's just my opinion. Of course.

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