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Potential trade with Blackhawks

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Old
11-24-2009, 04:42 PM
  #126
kyle747
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
He's nowhere near as good as Kuba or Lee defensively, that's why the Hawks barely play him. His occasional bit of physical play seems to have dropped of substantially since he earned a full time spot on the team. He isn't the player you're suggesting right now and the comparisons to slightly better Picard's are much closer to reality.
We have too many #5-6 defensemen as it is. If we are going to add to the defense, I'd rather wait for a more significant upgrade.

If it's a case of needing someone for the PP I'd just as soon stick with Picard. Barker has a significant cap hit for a #5 guy who plays less than 15 min a game.

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11-24-2009, 05:53 PM
  #127
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Defence is the toughest position to play in the NHL & takes the longest to learn, so Jason York tells us, but I've also heard many others over the yrs say the same thing. Barker is only 23 yrs old & is obviously still learning the position. You can't teach size, he has decent size & you can't teach offensive skills & he also has pretty decent offensive skills. What you can teach is defensive positioning, reading the plays & playing better with your defensive partner which I'm sure they are trying to teach him. Maybe like Lee he is slow in developing or is just a slow learner.

Barker in 68 games had 40 points last yr same as Kuba our suppossed #1 defenceman, he hasn't even played a full season yet. Does anyone remember what Brennan had to say about Kuba's physical play, "a good waste of size". I'm a little surprised people would be against trading for Barker when less than a week ago so many here wanted Shannon, Lee & Picard traded or waived. What a difference a week makes. This is the second time we have heard a rumour that Ottawa is interested in Barker & I guess the rumours regarding Seabrooke are done for now.

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11-24-2009, 07:08 PM
  #128
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... if Barker is shipped in for Picard + Shannon, what happens with Karlsson and Cowen (hell, even Wiercioch if he's ready) next year? Continue developing them while we roll Philchenkov, Kuba, Lee, Barker, and Campoli?

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Old
11-24-2009, 10:13 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
Defence is the toughest position to play in the NHL & takes the longest to learn, so Jason York tells us, but I've also heard many others over the yrs say the same thing. Barker is only 23 yrs old & is obviously still learning the position. You can't teach size, he has decent size & you can't teach offensive skills & he also has pretty decent offensive skills. What you can teach is defensive positioning, reading the plays & playing better with your defensive partner which I'm sure they are trying to teach him. Maybe like Lee he is slow in developing or is just a slow learner.

Barker in 68 games had 40 points last yr same as Kuba our suppossed #1 defenceman, he hasn't even played a full season yet. Does anyone remember what Brennan had to say about Kuba's physical play, "a good waste of size". I'm a little surprised people would be against trading for Barker when less than a week ago so many here wanted Shannon, Lee & Picard traded or waived. What a difference a week makes. This is the second time we have heard a rumour that Ottawa is interested in Barker & I guess the rumours regarding Seabrooke are done for now.
He makes too much to be training on the job. He'll cost us Volchenkov around a time we want to bring in Karlsson, Cowen and maybe a guy like Wierioch down the line.

Brennan's an idiot then, all that matters is that Kuba is very good. Volchenkov, Carkner and Phillips are around for physical play.

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11-26-2009, 11:08 PM
  #130
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I read on Mark Christopher's Hockeybuzz blog that there may have been a Blackhawks scout in attendance tonight. Picard also led all Senators in ice time tonight. Interesting if the two are related

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11-27-2009, 01:41 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by OE40 View Post
I read on Mark Christopher's Hockeybuzz blog that there may have been a Blackhawks scout in attendance tonight. Picard also led all Senators in ice time tonight. Interesting if the two are related
Wow Picard played 26:19 mins, did not realize that.

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11-27-2009, 07:20 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Karlssonlee View Post
Wow Picard played 26:19 mins, did not realize that.
He's led us a couple games in a row. Er, maybe it was 2 games ago that he led in ice time. Regardless, he's been seeing plenty of minutes.

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11-27-2009, 07:25 AM
  #133
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I am not sure if i want to trade Picard, they guy has really come into his own and is a BIG reason why we have done so well without Kuba then without Volch...

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Old
11-27-2009, 08:00 AM
  #134
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I am not sure if i want to trade Picard, they guy has really come into his own and is a BIG reason why we have done so well without Kuba then without Volch...
Agreed, he's a convenient whipping boy for Sens fans even though he has never really done anything THAT bad.

Sure, he's not a star by any means, but he has been fairly solid and has done his job just fine, particularly while logging so many minutes.

But people are more likely to hone in on that missed net instead of the positives...

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Old
11-27-2009, 08:12 AM
  #135
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Any water held to this yet?

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Old
11-27-2009, 08:17 AM
  #136
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I'd rather have Picard at his salary, playing the way he is, over Barker at his salary, playing the way he is. Picard can get 30-40 pts with a little more confidence. He may not be AS good as Barker but for the difference in salary he's close enough. That 2.2 mil can be used somewhere else.

Campoli, on the other hand....

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11-27-2009, 08:56 AM
  #137
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Campoli, on the other hand....
...should hopefully sit when Volchenkov returns.

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Old
11-27-2009, 09:44 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Sensational Spezza View Post
How are people complaining about Campoli? The guy is playing so well for us. Last game I cannot recall him making any mistakes, he's solid all-around, has a great shot, can move the puck and can handle opposing forwards. Keeps up his play from that last few games and he's a legit top 4 defenseman.

Also Murray haters, Picard has been better for us than Meszaros has been for the Lightning this season, and has a 0.8M cap hit compared to Mezzy's 4M. And Murray added Kuba, Campoli and rented Comrie to help propell us to that 8th spot (Muckler would've gave a 2nd for him).
In what world is Campoli playing "so well"? Even Bryan Murray was on the radio saying if he's not doing much offensively, he's not effective, and he hasn't done much of anything offensively this year.

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Old
11-27-2009, 10:06 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by DG View Post
Agreed, he's a convenient whipping boy for Sens fans even though he has never really done anything THAT bad.

Sure, he's not a star by any means, but he has been fairly solid and has done his job just fine, particularly while logging so many minutes.

But people are more likely to hone in on that missed net instead of the positives...
When Picard is bad (and it's happened frequently, although not as much of late) he's putrid. Awful, absolutely awful. It's got nothing to do with missing any nets either, it's about turnovers, poor passes and poor defensive zone play.

That said, he really has been decent lately so I hope he's turning a corner. He wouldn't be the first dman to take a while to develop.

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Old
11-27-2009, 10:14 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by OgieO View Post
When Picard is bad (and it's happened frequently, although not as much of late) he's putrid. Awful, absolutely awful. It's got nothing to do with missing any nets either, it's about turnovers, poor passes and poor defensive zone play.
Like the Nashville game. He was putrid.

Just sayin

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11-27-2009, 10:19 AM
  #141
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Is Picard still paired with Carkner ?

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Old
11-27-2009, 10:21 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by The King of Town View Post
...should hopefully sit when Volchenkov returns.
Definitely. I agree that Picard can be absolutely horrific, but it also seems like he brings more to the table than Campoli.

Also, it would be tight getting Barker in under the cap if we re-sign Volchenkov, but I don't even see how he gets a role on our team once we bring in Cowen and Karlsson. We would probably end up regretting bringing him in.

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11-27-2009, 10:21 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by kyle747 View Post
Is Picard still paired with Carkner ?
I thought I saw Carkner with Phillips yesterday...

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11-27-2009, 10:31 AM
  #144
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Definitely. I agree that Picard can be absolutely horrific, but it also seems like he brings more to the table than Campoli.
I think a big reason Picard appears to be doing more is that he plays on the first power play unit. Most of his points this year have come from simply controlling the puck at the point for a few seconds and picking up assists, it's not like he's been creative and generating lots of good scoring chances back there. The one thing he does do very well though and you need to give him credit for is getting his shot through traffic, he's very good at walking the line and opening up shooting lanes.

Let's not forget that Campoli has had to babysit either Karlsson or Picard all season, while Picard has had the benefit of playing with Carkner to cover up his mistakes. Personally I see Picard making far more defensive gaffes and bad passes then Campoli, it's just Campoli doesn't have a defensive partner to cover his mistakes. I'd love to see Campoli paired with Volchenkov when he gets back, I think that would really allow him to open his game up and join the rush and be more aggressive in the offensive zone, whereas now he's playing very passively.

Quote:
Also, it would be tight getting Barker in under the cap if we re-sign Volchenkov, but I don't even see how he gets a role on our team once we bring in Cowen and Karlsson. We would probably end up regretting bringing him in.
Realistically Barker doesn't bring a whole lot more than Picard does at this point, except for a big price tag.

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Old
11-27-2009, 10:33 AM
  #145
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I thought I saw Carkner with Phillips yesterday...
because Kuba was taking too many penalties. Phillips and Carkner pk'd together a couple of times and looked phenomenal

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Old
11-27-2009, 10:59 AM
  #146
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send Campoli back to the Islanders for... I don't know, anything.

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Old
11-27-2009, 11:50 AM
  #147
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Kuba has been a lot worse this year but nobody talks about him cause he had 2-3 great games. Picard had 1 awful game and everybody keep bringing it back.

People makes thread when Picard turns the puck over, but when Phillips and Kuba were piling on the give aways and the Sens lost 5 of 7, nobody was even mentioning that it might have something to do with the fact that our #1 pair was not able to feed our #1 line that coincidently scored 2 even strength goals during that stretch.

The reality is that Picard played better than any other defensmen not named Phillips or Volchenkov thus far. Carkner does his job, no doubt, I like the guy but he never touches the puck. Picard is the puck mover on that pair, he's the one moving the puck out of the zone, he's the one in charge of the breakouts. Go around the league and you'll find that leaders in giveaways are the guys who always carries the puck. So considering he carries the puck twice as much as Carkner, plays 2 more minutes per game but both have 14 give aways. I would say that he's actually safer.

All that being said. Bringing Barker here means no Volchenkov next year, unless we trade Kuba. Also, I think Brian Lee is the one who will get traded. He's expensive and has the inconvenient disadvantage of being a Muckler pick.

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11-27-2009, 01:28 PM
  #148
aragorn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dred View Post
I'd rather have Picard at his salary, playing the way he is, over Barker at his salary, playing the way he is. Picard can get 30-40 pts with a little more confidence. He may not be AS good as Barker but for the difference in salary he's close enough. That 2.2 mil can be used somewhere else.

Campoli, on the other hand....
The point about Barker is that he has a much greater potential than Picard, not so much this season but at sometime in the future he will be the better player IMO but at this point it's just a guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mars Volchenkov View Post
In what world is Campoli playing "so well"? Even Bryan Murray was on the radio saying if he's not doing much offensively, he's not effective, and he hasn't done much of anything offensively this year.
He was beat & knocked off the puck often last night against Columbus, he doesn't seem to be playing with a lot of confidence. I'm sure he is hearing it from the coach & maybe the GM who gave away a 1st for him. At times he looks alright with the puck but he can't seem to get it to the net without hitting a stick or accuracy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle747 View Post
Is Picard still paired with Carkner ?
Yes but Caukner is also playing the shut down role with Phillips from time to time effectively & with Phillips on the PK. I'm not sure if they are looking at whether he can do that full time maybe to replace A-Train, who knows but Carkner is playing well & blocking shots. It seems they have asked him to fight less & play more.


The question I have had for some time is whether the Sens can afford to pay two defensive defencemen (Phillips & Volchenkov) more than $6 mil? IMO $6 mil is already too much for two defensive defencemen. I also believe that this organization is very high on Phillips so if one of the two were to be traded it would be Volchenkov & this yr is the perfect yr to do it because he is a UFA. I wonder what Phillips will want when his contract is up & what is he worth?

A lot of people here would prefer to trade Kuba rather than Volchenkov but I'm of the opinion that an offensive defenceman is more valuable than a defensive defenceman. IMO defence by committee along with Carkner can replace Volchenkov, it is already being done with Anton being injured & the team doing alright without him. Regarding Picard he was having lots of trouble to start the year which is why we were hard on him but he & Kuba are both starting to play much better. Most consider Kuba, Phillips, Volchenkov & Carkner as our top 4 defenceman which is why Picard & Campolli get mentioned the most for trades. The next month should be interesting.

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Old
11-27-2009, 01:57 PM
  #149
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send Campoli back to the Islanders for... I don't know, anything.
A 1st....?

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Old
11-27-2009, 03:02 PM
  #150
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.... Also, I think Brian Lee is the one who will get traded. He's expensive and has the inconvenient disadvantage of being a Muckler pick.
That would be my prediction as well... and has been ever since the end of last season when the Sens / Murray's started playing up Karlsson's chances to make the team.

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