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Team 1260 talking this morning.

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Old
11-24-2009, 12:15 AM
  #76
Auguste Escoffier
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Originally Posted by OilerNut View Post
What really needs to change is the way the draft is done. Why should crappy teams always get the best picks? I think there needs to be a limit so you don't have a single team getting a top 3 pick 3 years in a row.
In the KHL, I believe teams have to PLAY for the 1st overall pick. Someone correct me if I read it wrong i.e. they're thinking of this.

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11-24-2009, 12:20 AM
  #77
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In the KHL, I believe teams have to PLAY for the 1st overall pick. Someone correct me if I read it wrong i.e. they're thinking of this.
You could have all the non playoff teams get in for the lottery. One ball for 17th team, two for 18th etc down to thirty.

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11-24-2009, 12:38 AM
  #78
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I agree with many of the posts here. Tanking doesn't get you a guaranteed championship. Edmonton's team when they are healthy is not near bad enough to get Hall. It will have to be gutted to get there. I will never support and intentional tank but if we are well out of it by the trade dealine, I would support trying to dump some contracts that will not be part of the Oiler's future plans for picks.

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11-24-2009, 07:37 AM
  #79
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Throw the season? In our moment of triumph?!

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11-24-2009, 08:30 AM
  #80
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I think some might just be forgetting that Chicago's turnaround really began with the death of Bill Wirtz, and his son Rocky taking over. Wanna talk about 'changes of culture'? There's one right there for you.
That was part of it, but the key pieces that turned the team around were all in place while Bill was alive.

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11-24-2009, 08:37 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by OILW30 View Post
Throw the season? In our moment of triumph?!
I think you overestimate their chawnces!

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11-24-2009, 09:33 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by IvyEyezPK View Post
In the KHL, I believe teams have to PLAY for the 1st overall pick. Someone correct me if I read it wrong i.e. they're thinking of this.
In the KHL, 1st overall picks you!

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11-24-2009, 09:39 AM
  #83
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I'm for it, what would be the difference between this year and the last 3 years? Missed the playoffs anyways, why pick any higher?

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11-24-2009, 11:21 AM
  #84
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I like how people are saying we need to tank a season to get good picks and yet are counting two of our prospects, MPS and Eberle, as our core players.

There are good even great picks out of the top 5 every year. We need to make sure our talent assessment is grade A, that is the answer. Tanking one or two years is no guarantee of success. You need to tank for 5, 6 or even 7 years to build that way. Do the fans have that kind of patience? Will we be able to keep any of our good current players on a team in a tailspin?

I think it's a bad idea, and I cannot understand how so few can see that.

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11-24-2009, 11:31 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Alawishis View Post
I like how people are saying we need to tank a season to get good picks and yet are counting two of our prospects, MPS and Eberle, as our core players.

There are good even great picks out of the top 5 every year. We need to make sure our talent assessment is grade A, that is the answer. Tanking one or two years is no guarantee of success. You need to tank for 5, 6 or even 7 years to build that way. Do the fans have that kind of patience? Will we be able to keep any of our good current players on a team in a tailspin?

I think it's a bad idea, and I cannot understand how so few can see that.
We havent had a team that has been a lock for the playoffs for almost twenty years. I think fans have been more than patient. I would say the patience is wearing thin. What we have been doing has not been working.

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11-24-2009, 11:37 AM
  #86
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Draft picks are crap shoots. It's way too high a risk. For every Sid the Kid, there's three Alexander Daigles or Doug Wickenheisers.

Count me out. Tanking the season is a suckers bet.

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11-24-2009, 11:41 AM
  #87
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Draft picks are crap shoots. It's way too high a risk. For every Sid the Kid, there's three Alexander Daigles or Doug Wickenheisers.

Count me out. Tanking the season is a suckers bet.
What do you call finishing just out of the playoffs year after year?

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11-24-2009, 11:41 AM
  #88
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That was part of it, but the key pieces that turned the team around were all in place while Bill was alive.
It's a big part in this case. Given how Bill had run the team while he was alive, I think it is more possible than not that we don't see the Blackhawk team we see now.

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11-24-2009, 11:43 AM
  #89
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If the team 1260 actually had a discussion on the merits of tanking the season (and I am not doubting they did) then they have gone farther down hill than I thought.

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11-24-2009, 11:57 AM
  #90
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tank for 4-5 seasons and we're guaranteed to get a star 1st rounder at least once and some good supporting players you can build something around..

or we can finish 9-13 and get middle of the pack picks that will ensure we remain stuck in this rut for another 20 years..

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11-24-2009, 12:04 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by oilerfanatic View Post
tank for 4-5 seasons and we're guaranteed to get a star 1st rounder at least once and some good supporting players you can build something around..

or we can finish 9-13 and get middle of the pack picks that will ensure we remain stuck in this rut for another 20 years..
That sounds like fun! As long as the cap system remains in place (hopefully it does) we will need to build through the draft. Unless we dont want to learn anything from the past three summers. There has been zero evidence to show that we are going to change our philosophy either. That is the most alarming thing of all.

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11-24-2009, 12:48 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by elpol View Post
I have an idea. How about simply drafting better, which as we all know, doesn't necessarily mean a higher pick.

An earlier poster made mention of 'lack of plan'? Maybe Lowe did have a 5yr plan and you know, 'best plans waylaid' and all that. My point is that he didn't fight to stick to it very hard. Probably reasons beyond reasons, and us fans are part of the equation. I'd sure love to see a plan.

Tanking/Rebuilding means that there are going to be a lot of fans who are going to chew off their own feet. And to think some of us are over-sensitive now...
Tanking is an odious term. Call it what you will: throwing the season, taking a dive etc. They're all offensive. Leonsis of Washington makes a public admission of tanking a season outright to get a shot at Ovechkin. If the league doesn't/didn't follow through with discipline for this flaunting and taunting it is obviously tacit approval of apparent illegal behaviour. It's a shame really.

I can understand why some would consider it but I just can't come up with the suitable analogy to describe my hate for this concept.

Let's deprive the fans of a team with a will to win; let's compromise the coaches integrity by forcing him to accept defeat, for the "greater good"; let's let the GM off the hook by allowing him to liquidate the roster for picks/prospects and then mailing in his top 5 pick instead of having him earn his pay; let's give the scouting staff who got us here in the first place a freebie. There is so much wrong with this morally and otherwise that I wonder why it has to even be considered. It is one thing to "earn" your place in the top 5, like we almost did with Gagner, but another to have corporate approval to tank.

NYI org., whether or not they have intentionally tanked or not over the years, are the beacon of failure for diving. That org drives home the unpredictability of this method of rebuilding. Don't get me wrong, rebuilding through the draft is arguably the best method but you had better have a competent scouting staff and though ours has improved over the years it is still questionable. So for the Oilers I say do it with trades and drafting. We've got a nice little pool of draft prospects Gagner, Cogs, Eberle, MPS, Omark, Nash, Petry, Coronet etc. Trade for the holes and yes, still try for that home run. We have a pretty strong defence and a good goalie. And play the heck out of them year after year and let the chips fall where they may come draft time.

Yeah, I would appreciate as a fan to hear what the organizational vision is for this team but I won't lose any sleep not knowing what it is.

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Old
11-24-2009, 12:54 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
If the team 1260 actually had a discussion on the merits of tanking the season (and I am not doubting they did) then they have gone farther down hill than I thought.
This is a hot topic so why wouldn't a sports radio station discuss it. They wern't specifically stating the Oilers should tank. I think the discussion was brought up by a caller who called in and they wanted peoples opinions if tanking for a few years and getting lucky ala Pitts, Wash and Chicago is actually a good idea or if it's a waste of time.

On a side note LA has been rebuilding for quite some time now and have traded many of the top yougsters they ahve picked up in the draft. As of right now their best player wasn't even a top 10 pick. Trust me there are ways to turn your team around. It does take patience and a smart GM. ie. Not a good idea to throw out a 6 year contract to a vet when the team isn't going anywhere.

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11-24-2009, 01:04 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by VincenzosOil View Post
Tanking is an odious term. Call it what you will: throwing the season, taking a dive etc. They're all offensive. Leonsis of Washington makes a public admission of tanking a season outright to get a shot at Ovechkin. If the league doesn't/didn't follow through with discipline for this flaunting and taunting it is obviously tacit approval of apparent illegal behaviour. It's a shame really.

I can understand why some would consider it but I just can't come up with the suitable analogy to describe my hate for this concept.

Let's deprive the fans of a team with a will to win; let's compromise the coaches integrity by forcing him to accept defeat, for the "greater good"; let's let the GM off the hook by allowing him to liquidate the roster for picks/prospects and then mailing in his top 5 pick instead of having him earn his pay; let's give the scouting staff who got us here in the first place a freebie. There is so much wrong with this morally and otherwise that I wonder why it has to even be considered. It is one thing to "earn" your place in the top 5, like we almost did with Gagner, but another to have corporate approval to tank.

NYI org., whether or not they have intentionally tanked or not over the years, are the beacon of failure for diving. That org drives home the unpredictability of this method of rebuilding. Don't get me wrong, rebuilding through the draft is arguably the best method but you had better have a competent scouting staff and though ours has improved over the years it is still questionable. So for the Oilers I say do it with trades and drafting. We've got a nice little pool of draft prospects Gagner, Cogs, Eberle, MPS, Omark, Nash, Petry, Coronet etc. Trade for the holes and yes, still try for that home run. We have a pretty strong defence and a good goalie. And play the heck out of them year after year and let the chips fall where they may come draft time.

Yeah, I would appreciate as a fan to hear what the organizational vision is for this team but I won't lose any sleep not knowing what it is.
The Islanders have been awful because of poor management and its nothing to do with tanking. They have had some of the best players in the league come up through their organization only to be traded. We simply dont have the option to do it another way. Its either stay the course or rebuild. The players play hard, they dont intentionally drop games, the coaches try to win as well. Its called rebuilding, not tanking, and is something that will have to be done. And please, no talk about how we are in the middle of a rebuild, that is not the case at all.

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11-24-2009, 01:32 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by VincenzosOil View Post
Tanking is an odious term. Call it what you will: throwing the season, taking a dive etc. They're all offensive. Leonsis of Washington makes a public admission of tanking a season outright to get a shot at Ovechkin. If the league doesn't/didn't follow through with discipline for this flaunting and taunting it is obviously tacit approval of apparent illegal behaviour. It's a shame really.

I can understand why some would consider it but I just can't come up with the suitable analogy to describe my hate for this concept.

Let's deprive the fans of a team with a will to win; let's compromise the coaches integrity by forcing him to accept defeat, for the "greater good"; let's let the GM off the hook by allowing him to liquidate the roster for picks/prospects and then mailing in his top 5 pick instead of having him earn his pay; let's give the scouting staff who got us here in the first place a freebie. There is so much wrong with this morally and otherwise that I wonder why it has to even be considered. It is one thing to "earn" your place in the top 5, like we almost did with Gagner, but another to have corporate approval to tank.

NYI org., whether or not they have intentionally tanked or not over the years, are the beacon of failure for diving. That org drives home the unpredictability of this method of rebuilding. Don't get me wrong, rebuilding through the draft is arguably the best method but you had better have a competent scouting staff and though ours has improved over the years it is still questionable. So for the Oilers I say do it with trades and drafting. We've got a nice little pool of draft prospects Gagner, Cogs, Eberle, MPS, Omark, Nash, Petry, Coronet etc. Trade for the holes and yes, still try for that home run. We have a pretty strong defence and a good goalie. And play the heck out of them year after year and let the chips fall where they may come draft time.

Yeah, I would appreciate as a fan to hear what the organizational vision is for this team but I won't lose any sleep not knowing what it is.
I agree. However, when there are two players as highly touted as Hall/Seguin, what have you really got to lose? Then again, the Oiler scouts might do something stupid and pull a WTF moment.

Someone buy our scouts subscription to the ISS.

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11-24-2009, 01:39 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
The Islanders have been awful because of poor management and its nothing to do with tanking. They have had some of the best players in the league come up through their organization only to be traded. We simply dont have the option to do it another way. Its either stay the course or rebuild. The players play hard, they dont intentionally drop games, the coaches try to win as well. Its called rebuilding, not tanking, and is something that will have to be done. And please, no talk about how we are in the middle of a rebuild, that is not the case at all.
Are you referring to Luongo and Jokinen? Or am I missing some other players?

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11-24-2009, 01:52 PM
  #97
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Are you referring to Luongo and Jokinen? Or am I missing some other players?
How would they look with Luongo and Chara?

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Old
11-24-2009, 01:52 PM
  #98
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Erik Johnson and Pietrangelo are going to be pretty good players.

You bring up a good point with Pheonix but remember their young guys are still developing. OEL Turris and Boedker are not in the league.
Yeah they are pretty good players, and every draft year, pretty good players can be had outside of the top 2. As said already in this thread, you can build through the draft without tanking.

But all this tanking talk is just silly anyways. I'm pretty sure professional athletes dont say "hey, we should throw the rest of the season so we can draft an 18 year old that will turn this team around".

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11-24-2009, 01:55 PM
  #99
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Yeah they are pretty good players, and every draft year, pretty good players can be had outside of the top 2. As said already in this thread, you can build through the draft without tanking.

But all this tanking talk is just silly anyways. I'm pretty sure professional athletes dont say "hey, we should throw the rest of the season so we can draft an 18 year old that will turn this team around".
I remember 3 years ago, the year we drafted Gagner, there was talk about whether we should've lost the last game to get into the lottery. At that point, the players didn't care either way. MacT told them to play for "pride"....

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11-24-2009, 01:57 PM
  #100
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I remember 3 years ago, the year we drafted Gagner, there was talk about whether we should've lost the last game to get into the lottery. At that point, the players didn't care either way. MacT told them to play for "pride"....
So they didnt care and they won?

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