HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Detroit Red Wings
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Saint Nick's Halo is crooked

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-24-2009, 10:49 AM
  #26
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
I'd like to see Lebda take over for Lidstrom on the 1st PP unit.

Hah.

-- Thanks,
Management

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 10:56 AM
  #27
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozen Ice View Post
Wait, are you guys really discussing giving Lidstroms money to a goalie next year? Are you ******* high? He is Nicklas Lidstrom! He will make no less than 5 million next year, and he will be on the team. What's more, Holland would never take a goalie over Lidstrom.

Lidstrom and the team have a had a slow start... imagine how the team would have done without him? He will pick it up offensively.
Look, I was saying prior to the season, when he was expected to put up 50 to 60 points, that he should take $4.5M or so, for the sake of the team.

Well, if he finishes the season with 4 goals and 28 assists, a) he'll retire or b) he needs to be prepared to take a paycut significant (40 percent or more) proportions.

At 39 years old, he needs to be taking less than he's actually worth. Not the opposite.

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 11:03 AM
  #28
sarcastro
Registered User
 
sarcastro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,245
vCash: 663
I would imagine Lidstrom would take less money next year. Stevie took less when it was clear he was fading, and Nick does not strike me as the type of guy that would try to leverage his name and history for a huge paycheck when he knows he's not going to be able to earn it.

sarcastro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 11:06 AM
  #29
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Maybe.
On the other hand.
Lidstrom has never been known to take a discount.

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 11:25 AM
  #30
Fugu
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Maybe.
On the other hand.
Lidstrom has never been known to take a discount.

Well if there's one guy in the NHL who NEVER should take one, it's St. Nick.

Or did you not enjoy the four Cups and the several others that were close?

In Holland's opinion, there has been one constant through all those years. It's #5.

He'll ramp it up some but seriously, this year's team is just not going to be that strong, and it would be a hell of a lot worse without Nick in the line up.

  Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 11:41 AM
  #31
doublejack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Detroit
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,123
vCash: 500
IMO, Lidstrom is only worth paying $5-6M if he can continue to be the team's best and/or most important player. Hopefully he'll pick up his game, particularly with Kronwall out. However, he's been unimpressive so far, and this follows a playoff run where Stuart was arguably our best and most important defenseman.

If the time hasn't come for Lidstrom to hang 'em up, then it almost certainly is time for him to take a pay cut.

doublejack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 12:03 PM
  #32
lazerbullet
Registered User
 
lazerbullet's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Europe
Posts: 684
vCash: 500
Nick for one year at 5 millions would be good. Then bring Kindl up so he could learn from the best. It's a wisely invested 5 millions.

After that Nick can retire and Detroit has some money to spend.

lazerbullet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 12:21 PM
  #33
RedMenace
Zero ***** Given
 
RedMenace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Under the Bridge
Posts: 4,245
vCash: 500
Turco would be a decent reclamation project for Holland... he's still got the skills, and he can play the puck.

If they could pick him up at $3.5M...

RedMenace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 01:35 PM
  #34
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Well if there's one guy in the NHL who NEVER should take one, it's St. Nick.

Or did you not enjoy the four Cups and the several others that were close?

In Holland's opinion, there has been one constant through all those years. It's #5.

He'll ramp it up some but seriously, this year's team is just not going to be that strong, and it would be a hell of a lot worse without Nick in the line up.
Baloney, Fugu. A guy gets to be 39 years old, he has more money than he'll ever need (unless he's Fedorov), why the hell wouldn't you take a discount so that your GM could help you get the kind of players you need to give you a shot at winning a fifth?

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 01:53 PM
  #35
lazerbullet
Registered User
 
lazerbullet's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Europe
Posts: 684
vCash: 500
Looked also at UFA list. Nothing good in 2010. Well... I would not re-sign Nick, if we get Kovalchuk, but this ain't happening.

Amongst goalies Hiller looks good, but I have a feeling that he is staying in Disneyland.

So it's better to wait until 2011. Then we can go after Kaberle, or maybe even Markov (Habs will try to lock him up).
Bryzgalov, Smith and several other good goalies are also available. I could live with Bryzgalov at 5+ millions instead of Nick.

lazerbullet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 02:07 PM
  #36
nik jr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Country: Congo-Kinshasa
Posts: 10,526
vCash: 500
lidstrom has definitely been worse than last season.

seems slow most of the time. i think he sometimes overpursues the puck carrier in the defensive zone, to the boards, which leaves the front of the net open. he has seemed very reluctant to take hits. he was always good at avoiding hits, but he seems much less willing to be hit. seem tobe more errors in communication on D, too.

he is passing up opportunities to shoot.


i would suspect injury, but lidstrom was better in the finals when he was badly injured, than he is now.



(actually, all of the above applies to the entire team.)



i hope lidstrom does take a relatively small salary after this season. possibly around 4M. he's worth more, but it would also help the team.

nik jr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 04:11 PM
  #37
Fugu
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Baloney, Fugu. A guy gets to be 39 years old, he has more money than he'll ever need (unless he's Fedorov), why the hell wouldn't you take a discount so that your GM could help you get the kind of players you need to give you a shot at winning a fifth?
Not baloney, CB.

Lidstrom is in the second year of a two year deal. He re-signed after leading the team to a Cup and receiving the 6th of his 6 Norrises. If that's not a player who deserves the highest pay on the team, which btw isn't even the league maximum, then no one deserves that kind of coin.

Last year, he was again a contender for the Norris, and really, Chara was the only guy who deserved to be in the same room. You then compare Nick's playoff performance vs Chara and Green, and well.... yah. So Nick's team gets to the 7th game of the SC final and perhaps barring some serious team injuries, they would have repeated. (I personally think it was the injuries that beat them, not the Pens, but that is how playoffs go.)

So here we are, quarter mark of the second year of that deal, and you really have a problem with the money the Wings have paid Lidstrom?

Edit: As far as his value NEXT year..... I personally haven't heard of any numbers being thrown out, and do think he's cognizant of the cap and his cut of the pie. I believe he will take much less.

  Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 04:13 PM
  #38
Yemack
Registered User
 
Yemack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 6,198
vCash: 500
I always figured Nick would re-sign with us at around 4.7. Don't ask me why.. I don't know either. The number always jumped to me for some reason.

As for his play, I think his passing skill seemed to deteriorate a bit. Usually his pass is near flawless and the one who receive it takes off right away but it hasn't be so this season. Nick is the engine of the red wings and it seems to trickle down on rest of the team. (could be that Wings are pressured more this season)

Also his reaction speed seems noticeably slower. It is to be expected with his age but compare to the last season, he doesn't seem to respond quickly when he faces an unexpected play. Unfortunately I think it is only going to get worse next year.

Yemack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 04:16 PM
  #39
Johnny Law
Registered User
 
Johnny Law's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 338
vCash: 500
I guarantee if he starts hitting the net and getting better shot placement we will all change our tune.

Lidas is fifth on the team with shots (47) put is only converting at 2% ! I simply cannot believe that will continue throughout the season, he will get more goals and all will be well.

He isn't old Nick but he's still pretty damn good, his 1 on 3 play against the Nucks I think was a thing of beauty. As far as I'm concerned if he wants to come back the Wings owe it to him to find him a spot unless he's being completely unreasonable.

Johnny Law is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 04:19 PM
  #40
Winger98
Moderator
powers combined
 
Winger98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 13,860
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Winger98
Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
i hope lidstrom does take a relatively small salary after this season. possibly around 4M. he's worth more, but it would also help the team.
I don't think it's out of the question. If he comes back, it won't be for any personal rewards - he has them already. He'll want to win.

Winger98 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 05:39 PM
  #41
norrisnick
Registered User
 
norrisnick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 16,243
vCash: 500
Should have bought him out in '05 when we had the chance, right dj?

norrisnick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 05:48 PM
  #42
mooseOAK*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 42,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack View Post
IMO, it's too early to think of offering Lidstrom 5-6M for another season. He hasn't played well enough to warrant that much money, at least not yet. I'm also not even sure Lidstrom will want to play another season if he continues to fade.
Lidstrom has played close to 1600 NHL games including playoffs, that's a lot of wear and tear. He's been a horse but they all get put out to pasture eventually.

mooseOAK* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 07:24 PM
  #43
Fugu
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Lidstrom has played close to 1600 NHL games including playoffs, that's a lot of wear and tear. He's been a horse but they all get put out to pasture eventually.

Unfortunately that day is approaching, where maybe at best he's around for 1-2 more years. I know I'm going to cry a river of tears when it happens.

  Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 07:57 PM
  #44
ProPAIN
I am the Danger!
 
ProPAIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Paris
Country: Belgium
Posts: 11,593
vCash: 500
I dread the day that Lidstrom stops playing. When someone says Red Wings he is 1 of 3 players that come to mind. He is a great leader, an absolute legend.

But, putting our admiration for him aside, he is NOT the same anymore. You can see the experience, no doubt and he is definitely a guy you want on the ice when we want a goal, but he is 39 and has peaked already. If he takes the pay cut, that is great. We will then be able to get rid of that frick of nature (yes frick, not freak), Lebda and then have Lidstrom and a guy like Volchenkov for next year. But I don't think Lidstrom should sign for the same amount as now or more (God forbid). Otherwise, and I am just putting it out there, someone similar to Lidstrom (leader, PP, good defensemen), Niedermeyer is available as a UFA at the end of the season. He is 4 years younger, taking less money and posts similar points than Lidstrom. What do you guys think?

ProPAIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 07:58 PM
  #45
ProPAIN
I am the Danger!
 
ProPAIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Paris
Country: Belgium
Posts: 11,593
vCash: 500
Btw, is there a thread where we can talk about the Red Wings roster for next year? not a thread like "I Demand Change" kind of thread, but to discuss the possibilities of which players we could bring in and which can go? If it doesn't exist, would it be ok to start one? or will i get thrashed by the forum? let me know, cause i want to discuss this with you guys.

yesterday, out of frustration i started looking at the rosters here:

NHL Numbers

and there are some pretty decent players available at the end of the year. I want to see what the forum thinks of the players we list and so on.

ProPAIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 10:46 PM
  #46
19 for president
Registered User
 
19 for president's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,475
vCash: 562
The big issue with Lids is that his skating has signifcantly decreased. He cannot get back into the play as quickly and he gets hit a lot more. Thats means more wear and tear on the body and he cannot be as offensively minded as before. Put him with a defensive dman and he'd be better offensively 5 on 5. Right now he has to stick back more because he cannot cover up for Raffy and others gaffes like he used to. On the PP he is not moving nearly as much and in general the Wings PP is old. Its back to the point bomb. Thats all we do. We don't have enough shooters down low to really make teams fear us off the boards so they just clog the middle. This eliminates Lids effectiveness on the PP. He'll get better. He is a notorious 2nd half player but the Wings need him to get better faster than that. He's played a ton of hockey in the past 3 years. I can only hope he gets better fast enough.

19 for president is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 11:24 PM
  #47
Fugu
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPAIN View Post
Btw, is there a thread where we can talk about the Red Wings roster for next year? not a thread like "I Demand Change" kind of thread, but to discuss the possibilities of which players we could bring in and which can go? If it doesn't exist, would it be ok to start one? or will i get thrashed by the forum? let me know, cause i want to discuss this with you guys.

yesterday, out of frustration i started looking at the rosters here:

NHL Numbers

and there are some pretty decent players available at the end of the year. I want to see what the forum thinks of the players we list and so on.
We have jacK's cap tracker thread in the sticky section: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=651132


People do seem to throw ideas out for UFA's in there, but I suppose there's no problem with a Target UFA List type of thread. Just not sure if you'll get a ton of responses this early. Once everyone feels the noose getting tighter (maybe after the trade deadline), you'll have ALL kinds of suggestions on blowing it up, who to keep, fire, sign, and so on..... My two cents.

  Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2009, 02:04 AM
  #48
Kiddington
heehats
 
Kiddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Reno, NV
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 1,764
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack View Post
If the time hasn't come for Lidstrom to hang 'em up, then it almost certainly is time for him to take a pay cut.
This.

I don't see why it's so insulting for some to ask Lidstrom for a pay cut. We're already seeing the slowdown in his game now (guys like Rafalski and Ericsson still couldn't hold a candle to his play, but you know what I mean; he's not as solid as he was a year or two ago), and next year, he'll just be another year older, and another year slower. Why would we be paying 7-8 million to a guy when he's no longer worth that price tag?

As I'm watching Lidstrom now, I see a player on the decline. Not a serious decline (like Cheechoo after he scored 56 goals), but such a decline that would warrent a paycut the next time contract talks come up. I mean, let's be serious here. Just ask yourself; is Lidstrom a 7 million dollar player next season because he plays like one? Or is he that because organizational loyalty nearly obligates them to pay him that much (such as this whole thing about nobody else on the team can make more money than him)?

That's the vibe I'm getting here. Even if Lidstrom isn't worth 7-8 million, he should still be payed as such, because he's done so much for the organizaton in the past. I'm sorry, but that just sounds ridiculous, if you ask me. I'm not saying we should lowball the guy and offer way under value, but that still doesn't change the fact that his current contract is quite expensive, and he shouldn't be making that much next season, when it's pretty clear he probably won't be the same kind of player anymore.

My solution; offer Lidstrom about 4-5 million or so. That's plenty of money, especially for a guy his age; how many near 40 year olds in the NHL ever make more than league minimum, let alone possibly 5 million or so a season? This kind of contract would also in-line with the kind of player he is now, and, in the bigger picture, it helps the team because they'll have an extra 2-3 million to throw around at free agents and what not.

Kiddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2009, 10:11 AM
  #49
Fugu
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
^^^^

Honestly, that is more than likely what will happen. He's being paid $7+ MM now because he signed a 2 yr deal after the Cup win 2 yrs ago. He deserved more than that the year following the Cup + Norris year, and he may not deserve that much this year, although I'm not ready to say he's THAT much worse.... It evens out over the two years, imo.

I guess I don't get what the complaint is.... contracts cannot be renegotiated, and if there are some overpayments in the system right now, Nick is hardly the guy who hasn't earned some overpayment. (Ergo, he's not the problem.)

  Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2009, 10:32 AM
  #50
Matt714*
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Repentigny, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,528
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Matt714*
Don't think he will resign.

He doesn't seem to care anymore.

I probably wouldn't either. (4 Cups, HHOF first ballot lock, 1,000 points) and it's his last year of contract.

Matt714* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:18 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.