HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Kotalik's +/-

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-23-2009, 10:05 PM
  #1
Scooter17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 483
vCash: 500
Kotalik's +/-

Kotalik is obviously very important to this team because of his abilities on the PP, but his +/- is at -11, which is much lower than anyone else on the team. The next lowest is -4 for Callahan and Brashear. I understand that the points he scores on the PP don't count towards +/-. But, is he really that bad at even strength? Its not like you see him constantly making bad plays at even strength.

Scooter17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-23-2009, 10:07 PM
  #2
darko
Registered User
 
darko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Country: Australia
Posts: 30,445
vCash: 500
13 of his 17 points have come on PP.

darko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-23-2009, 10:13 PM
  #3
SomE
Registered User
 
SomE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,786
vCash: 500
Just one of those stats. Not the best defensively on the team but not the worst.

SomE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-23-2009, 10:15 PM
  #4
OverTheCap
Registered User
 
OverTheCap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,623
vCash: 500
As myself and others have mentioned before, Kotalik is a one-dimensional player. He is good on the PP and is money in the shootout but brings little else to the table. His shot is a rocket, but he can't really generate offense, which I believe is one of the reasons he only lasted 1 game on the top line.

One thing I don't like about him lately is that he's a penalty-taking machine. Lazy hooks and trips, and a high-sticking penalty today. He needs to be more disciplined.

OverTheCap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-23-2009, 10:29 PM
  #5
Radek27
Registered User
 
Radek27's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 5,149
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Radek27
-11 is pretty bad considering how early it is still.

Radek27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-23-2009, 10:30 PM
  #6
ThirdEye
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 11,666
vCash: 500
Well, at least he's producing. He is essentially the same player as he's always been. Lets hope he can give us 20 goals this season

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
-11 is pretty bad considering how early it is still.
Martin Havlat is a -14 in like 19 games lol

ThirdEye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-23-2009, 11:05 PM
  #7
Richter35
Registered User
 
Richter35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
Well, at least he's producing. He is essentially the same player as he's always been. Lets hope he can give us 20 goals this season



Martin Havlat is a -14 in like 19 games lol
Kots is also on pace for like 60 pts, I'll take that production even if the +/- is weak, if you add up the goals he's on for on the pp I'm pretty sure he'd be positive

Richter35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-23-2009, 11:08 PM
  #8
ThirdEye
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 11,666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richter35 View Post
Kots is also on pace for like 60 pts, I'll take that production even if the +/- is weak, if you add up the goals he's on for on the pp I'm pretty sure he'd be positive
Yeah, but that's not really fair since the chances of the other team scoring on the PK is very low.

I don't think he'll finish with 60 as he is very streaky. 50 would be nice though

ThirdEye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-23-2009, 11:08 PM
  #9
trilobyte
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 12,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
Well, at least he's producing.
Well, watching three of his last inabilities to check that eventually (some directly, some not) led to goals scored by the opposition, it does cause one to reconsider the term 'producing'.

I like Kotalik, but it's kind of tough to accept that he doesn't really get the details of defensive responsibility.
He's not 80 years old with an inability to learn, he should be teachable. Maybe he will improve, I hope he does, because he can be quite a force offensively.
If he gets with the program, he has all the skills to really help this team.

It's up to Kotalik, and the coaches, how this all turns out.

trilobyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-23-2009, 11:09 PM
  #10
NYR Sting
Heart and Soul
 
NYR Sting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 9,506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooter17 View Post
But, is he really that bad at even strength?
Yes, yes he is.

Quote:
Its not like you see him constantly making bad plays at even strength.
Yes, yes you do.

Kotalik blows, and this is not at all surprising. He is playing the same exact way he played for the Sabres. He is useless at even strength. Terrible decision maker, constantly turns the puck over. Often takes bad, wasteful shots. Frequently attempts to pull off dekes/moves that he simply isn't skilled enough or quick enough to pull off. Takes stupid penalties, too.

Remind you of a certain overpaid center that (thankfully) is no longer on our team?

I was totally against signing Kotalik, and I stand by that. His cons far outweigh his pros, IMO.

NYR Sting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 12:02 AM
  #11
RangerFan10
Registered User
 
RangerFan10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Long Island/Plattsbu
Country: United States
Posts: 5,327
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to RangerFan10
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomE View Post
Just one of those stats. Not the best defensively on the team but not the worst.
I think other than Brashear, he definitely is the worst.

RangerFan10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 12:04 AM
  #12
RangerFan10
Registered User
 
RangerFan10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Long Island/Plattsbu
Country: United States
Posts: 5,327
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to RangerFan10
I like what he brings to the powerplay, but I honestly think he should be on the 4th line making at most around $1.8 million a year. You can find other guys out there for his price, that will put up his number, that actually backcheck and play good hockey at even strength.

RangerFan10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 12:24 AM
  #13
Ail
k.
 
Ail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mysidia
Country: United States
Posts: 16,291
vCash: 500
Considering how bad the power play unit has been lately you can argue he isn't really contributing there either. A one trick pony is fine if they are getting paid appropriately for said trick, and also performing it. He had two assists vs. Atlanta, big deal.

He just doesn't seem like a well rounded hockey player, who, even when he's getting points, is still coming out -1 nightly.

I'm not going to throw anyone under the bus until the club as whole turns it around, but he's definitely on the list.

Ail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 12:44 AM
  #14
Brooklyn Ranger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn, of course
Posts: 7,755
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by trilobyte View Post
Well, watching three of his last inabilities to check that eventually (some directly, some not) led to goals scored by the opposition, it does cause one to reconsider the term 'producing'.

I like Kotalik, but it's kind of tough to accept that he doesn't really get the details of defensive responsibility.
He's not 80 years old with an inability to learn, he should be teachable. Maybe he will improve, I hope he does, because he can be quite a force offensively.
If he gets with the program, he has all the skills to really help this team.

It's up to Kotalik, and the coaches, how this all turns out.
What you see is what you get. Kotalik is not some rookie, he's a well established player in the NHL who's played like this for years. He's not going to change. He's good on the powerplay and not much else. Look somewhere else for defensive awareness.

Brooklyn Ranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 12:46 AM
  #15
Edge
Registered User
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sin City
Country: United States
Posts: 13,196
vCash: 500
It's been pretty well documented that I'm not a huge Kotalik fan.

Having said that, it comes down to two issues:

1. There isn't a whole lot of scoring outside Gaborik right now.

2. Kotalik is essentially a powerplay specialist at this point.

When push comes to shove, he is what he is - a 20 goal, 45-50 point guy, who is VERY streaky.

I've pointed out something that I think will hold true again - Probably half his point will come on the powerplay and overall you'll probably find that half of his goals and points come in about 20 combined games. The other 60 games is pretty mediocre.

Edge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 12:50 AM
  #16
trilobyte
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 12,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger View Post
What you see is what you get. Kotalik is not some rookie, he's a well established player in the NHL who's played like this for years. He's not going to change. He's good on the powerplay and not much else. Look somewhere else for defensive awareness.
Yes, I know he is not a rookie. I guess I'm just naive thinking a player will look at and try to correct their weakness.

Too bad, so sad.

trilobyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 02:22 AM
  #17
NHLsnipers
Registered User
 
NHLsnipers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,029
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
I like what he brings to the powerplay, but I honestly think he should be on the 4th line making at most around $1.8 million a year. You can find other guys out there for his price, that will put up his number, that actually backcheck and play good hockey at even strength.

This guy has probably a top 10 shot in the league. No possibility he should ever be on the 4th line. He puts up 20 goals like clockwork. Let him get open and give him the puck to rip shots.

Thats what Buffalo did when they had Drury and Briere. Then they lost those two and the Kotalik hate started coming out.

Hes a solid player that will put points on the board and that is what the Rangers need.

NHLsnipers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 05:12 AM
  #18
Corto
Faceless Man
 
Corto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Braavos
Country: Croatia
Posts: 12,878
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHLsnipers View Post

Thats what Buffalo did when they had Drury and Briere. Then they lost those two and the Kotalik hate started coming out.
Not really.
Al's best ES season was with Connolly and Afinogenov, and he was a mainstay on the PP, as usual.
25 goals, 62 points, you could rely on him to score some big goals.

Later on, he was put on Drury's wing (with Novotny, then Zubrus), and he played some solid hockey, but his production dropped.

BTW, whoever said Kotalik's lazy, doesn't really have a leg to stand on.
He can forecheck, he can hit, he can wind up a huge shot, and be a crucial piece on the PP.
He tries to play D, but he'll never be good at it.
Not for a lack of effort though.

He's hole-plugger on the 2nd-3rd line, big body, relatively physical (especially come playoff time), and will pot you 20-25 goals.
Not more than that though.

Corto is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 06:29 AM
  #19
beastly115
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 10,424
vCash: 500
1. Kotalik gets most of his points on the PP which don't count for +/-

2. Kotalik plays even strength with Boyle and Brashear/Voros. What can you really expect from him at ES with those 3 clowns? Of course they're going to give up goals.

beastly115 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 07:07 AM
  #20
offdacrossbar
with the 10th pick..
 
offdacrossbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: da cuse
Country: Tuvalu
Posts: 8,114
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corto View Post
Not really.
Al's best ES season was with Connolly and Afinogenov, and he was a mainstay on the PP, as usual.
25 goals, 62 points, you could rely on him to score some big goals.

Later on, he was put on Drury's wing (with Novotny, then Zubrus), and he played some solid hockey, but his production dropped.

BTW, whoever said Kotalik's lazy, doesn't really have a leg to stand on.
He can forecheck, he can hit, he can wind up a huge shot, and be a crucial piece on the PP.
He tries to play D, but he'll never be good at it.
Not for a lack of effort though.

He's hole-plugger on the 2nd-3rd line, big body, relatively physical (especially come playoff time), and will pot you 20-25 goals.
Not more than that though.
spot on.

hes actually a very good skater and does try to play defense. hes just never been good at it. i watched alot of buf games back then and always liked his effort. he was that guy who did a bit of everything but you always noticed his shot. when the puck hit the goalies pads, it made a different sound. his shot was always better than most everyone else.

ales does not belong on gabys line. hes better suited on the 3rd or 4th line at even strength getting less minutes but playing every single pp.

he is exactly what was said above. a pp specialist. his shootout record is filthy as well but we havent had many so far this season.

i have no problem with ales at all. i liked the signing back then and still do today. he brings instant respect to our pp and for that alone, i like him here.

his +/- to me means that he should play less even strength minutes and more pp.

offdacrossbar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 07:19 AM
  #21
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 23,048
vCash: 500
Awards:
Do not turn this into a Zherdev thread, or a Zherdev vs. Kotalik thread, etc. We've had more than enough of those.

__________________

It's just pain.
nyr2k2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 08:17 AM
  #22
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,471
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
It's been pretty well documented that I'm not a huge Kotalik fan.

Having said that, it comes down to two issues:

1. There isn't a whole lot of scoring outside Gaborik right now.

2. Kotalik is essentially a powerplay specialist at this point.

When push comes to shove, he is what he is - a 20 goal, 45-50 point guy, who is VERY streaky.

I've pointed out something that I think will hold true again - Probably half his point will come on the powerplay and overall you'll probably find that half of his goals and points come in about 20 combined games. The other 60 games is pretty mediocre.
Well said, Edge. Said the same thing myself when we acquired him, and again when he first started putting up some numbers on the PP.

I'll admit, he's been an important part of the PP so far and has been surprisingly capable of acting as a d-man when the opposing PK rushes the puck up the ice. Still, that's a double edged sword. When you rely on a guy with his history of inconsistency to be a key factor, you're just asking for trouble.

Trxjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 08:19 AM
  #23
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,435
vCash: 500
The Rangers pwp may have disappeared lately but it is partly because in a lot of recent games they haven't got that many. When it is going Kotalik's shot is a real weapon and with other threats like Gaborik and playmaking of MDZ the Rangers powerplay is much more effective than it was last year.

Anyway there have insinuations from various posters all season long that Kotalik is deficient in some respects including defensive awareness and his habit of taking bad penalties. I agree with all that. All in all -11 or not he's been okay but he's not a guy you necessarily want out on the ice in the last 5 minutes of a close game.

eco's bones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 08:28 AM
  #24
Loffen
Wen Kroy
 
Loffen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Soft euro
Posts: 17,119
vCash: 500
-11 already!?

Can you say one dimensional... Ouch.

Loffen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2009, 08:52 AM
  #25
I Am Chariot
One shift at a time
 
I Am Chariot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 14,521
vCash: 500
I know alot of people like to say bunk to the +/- stat. Especially around here after Maliks curious dominance of this statistic. Remember Maliks stats were in Jagrs shadow. Jagr padded everyone lucky enough to be on the ice.


But in essence the stat is pretty straight forward for the team to look at and say something is not working here, or in Jagr- Maliks case something IS working here.

We've seen some GREAT hockey players with poor +/- and it almost always is a clear indicator that something is NOT working well here.

Anze Kopitar is an amazing talent and has been a fantasy killer with his awful +/-.

Brad Richards?

There are some very good players out there who have sported poor +/- because they play on teams that are bad, lines that dont work etc.

__________________
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man
I Am Chariot is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:40 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.