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Gagner vs. Voracek

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Old
11-24-2009, 01:38 PM
  #26
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I fully expect Gagner to turn a corner and come up big for the club down the stretch. Despite his lackluster play so far this year, I think he will top 50 points this season. 49 in his rookie year, 41 in a disappointing sophomore season and + 50 this year would have to categorize him as a successful pick. For me, the real question is, 'when will he put together his first solid full season campaign?' If he can do it before the age of 23 then he becomes an outstanding pick. Contract wise, it would hurt the club going forward if he broke out this season, so forcing him to play minutes he has not yet earned, does not make much sense. Cogliano and Gagner are good players coming up on contract renewal. Let's hope they can become difference makers after reasonable contracts are in place.

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11-24-2009, 01:41 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by hemsky8371 View Post
I would do this in a heartbeat, but I highly doubt Howson would go for it.
I dunno, Gagner centering Rick Nash could be a dangerous combination. I mean look at the chemistry Gagner and Penner have

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11-24-2009, 01:46 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the word View Post
I fully expect Gagner to turn a corner and come up big for the club down the stretch. Despite his lackluster play so far this year, I think he will top 50 points this season. 49 in his rookie year, 41 in a disappointing sophomore season and + 50 this year would have to categorize him as a successful pick. For me, the real question is, 'when will he put together his first solid full season campaign?' If he can do it before the age of 23 then he becomes an outstanding pick. Contract wise, it would hurt the club going forward if he broke out this season, so forcing him to play minutes he has not yet earned, does not make much sense. Cogliano and Gagner are good players coming up on contract renewal. Let's hope they can become difference makers after reasonable contracts are in place.
Turn a corner or just be Gagner?

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11-24-2009, 01:54 PM
  #29
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Right now, Gagner's looking a bit like a 20 yr old Ales Hemsky...he also looked weak, uncertain of himself and was having Oiler fans questioning what he was about back in 03/04...then the lockout happened, he spends a year in Europe, and comes back a 70+ point forward and has been the top offensive threat of this team ever since.

I think with Gagner, it would be worth giving him some time to grow up as a person.

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Old
11-24-2009, 02:19 PM
  #30
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I dunno, Gagner centering Rick Nash could be a dangerous combination. I mean look at the chemistry Gagner and Penner have
I think they are okay with eventually giving that spot on a more permanent basis in the near future to another former 6th overall pick in Derick Brassard.

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Old
11-24-2009, 02:38 PM
  #31
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Gagner is 5'10 191lbs and Voracek is 6'1 and 205lbs. 2" and 14lbs doesnt make a huge difference...at any level.
Gagner 23GP 5G 8A 13Pts
Voracek 22GP 6G 8A 14Pts
It will be interesting to see how their careers pan out, and I'm sure both organizations will be happy with how they turned out....its just some fans will never be happy.

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11-24-2009, 02:46 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
Gagner is 5'10 191lbs and Voracek is 6'1 and 205lbs. 2" and 14lbs doesnt make a huge difference...at any level.
Gagner 23GP 5G 8A 13Pts
Voracek 22GP 6G 8A 14Pts
It will be interesting to see how their careers pan out, and I'm sure both organizations will be happy with how they turned out....its just some fans will never be happy.
I think the main problem with gagner is consistency. Some nights there is a reason why he is getting 20 minutes and night and other nights there is a reason he is only getting 11 minutes.

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Old
11-24-2009, 02:57 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
I think the main problem with gagner is consistency. Some nights there is a reason why he is getting 20 minutes and night and other nights there is a reason he is only getting 11 minutes.
He's barely 20 years old. He's not going to be consistent for a few more years (neither is Voracek). That's what happens with young players not of the Crosby/Ovechekin level.

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Old
11-24-2009, 03:02 PM
  #34
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I think the main problem with gagner is consistency. Some nights there is a reason why he is getting 20 minutes and night and other nights there is a reason he is only getting 11 minutes.
Oh, I completely agree. But I also think he will mature enough in the next 2-3 seasons that he will be the player that we expect him to be.
He has all tools to be the next Marc Savard....lets just hope it isnt with his 3rd NHL team

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Old
11-24-2009, 03:25 PM
  #35
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Like a poster already said in this thread, everyone said the same things about Smid last year. Gagner will prove his worth at the end of the year.

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Old
11-24-2009, 03:54 PM
  #36
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Thing is, mainly due to his size, I don't see Gags developing into what most fans are *hoping* for until he's about 25-26-27 years old anyways. Gonna be a loooong while till we see the best from him.

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Old
11-24-2009, 03:59 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
Gagner is 5'10 191lbs and Voracek is 6'1 and 205lbs. 2" and 14lbs doesnt make a huge difference...at any level.
Gagner 23GP 5G 8A 13Pts
Voracek 22GP 6G 8A 14Pts
It will be interesting to see how their careers pan out, and I'm sure both organizations will be happy with how they turned out....its just some fans will never be happy.
According to Ray Ferraro, that's a lie. Apparently he's 5'10 after he puts on his skates

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Old
11-24-2009, 04:00 PM
  #38
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According to Ray Ferraro, that's a lie. Apparently he's 5'10 after he puts on his skates
and stands on the bench.

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Old
11-24-2009, 04:59 PM
  #39
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it's really no contest...voracek is bigger, faster, and has greater offensive instinct...i was really impressed with him in that win against columbus at home...this guy would easily be on our first line right now..

gagner is slow, and small..he has career second liner written all over him...he isn't as talented as a datsyuk and doesn't have the grit of a guy like fleury and doesn't skate like cogliano (who will stay in the league due to his skating alone despite his lacklustre skill set)...you have to compensate your lack of size for something...gagner is a bits and pieces player..

oilers fudged up at the draft..........again..

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Old
11-24-2009, 05:06 PM
  #40
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But...But...Gagner can dangle.

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Old
11-24-2009, 05:22 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by frag2 View Post
According to Ray Ferraro, that's a lie. Apparently he's 5'10 after he puts on his skates
I have stood beside Gagner without his skates and he isn't much taller than me.

I am 5'6.

He is maybe 5'8 and that might be pushing it.

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Old
11-24-2009, 05:39 PM
  #42
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Is Gagner the shortest Oiler?

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Old
11-24-2009, 05:56 PM
  #43
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like clock work we have this discussion again

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"If the Detroit Red Wings are defying gravity" by consistently contending without the benefit of high draft picks, "the Edmonton Oilers are defying lift.

Welcome to Edmonton Connor McDavid--the rest of you HA HA HA HA HA HA
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Old
11-24-2009, 06:29 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Centrecks View Post
I was thinking of this particular discussion for a while now and unless I have completely missed it, I haven't seen anything about it recently.

As it is well documented there was much debate over whether the Oilers should select Sam Gagner or Jakub Voracek with the 6th overall pick in 2007.

We all know how Gagner surprised everyone and made the team (in what some question as poor asset management) while Voracek spent another year in the QMJHL.

Gagner had a fairly impressive year as an 18 year old tallying 36 assists and 49 points, albeit he was a -21. However, he has failed to improve those numbers and is, in his third season, on roughly that same pace.

Voracek had a lukewarm rookie campaign with 38 points, but he did manage a +11. He is not lighting the world on fire by any means, but he is having a respectable year thus far, on pace for 22 goals and 52 points.

I know it's way too early to talk about these guys in tems of their overall careers, but I'm wondering if we've reached the point where it's interesting to entertain "what-if" scenarios.

What are your opinions? Are you pleased with Gagner's performance in his young career? Do you regret the Oilers choosing Gagner? Would you have preferred a selection of Voracek?
I would have taken Voracek. In fact everything I read, everything I heard told me that the oilers would take Voracek. But I can't complain. Gagner has had a lot of good games for the oilers.

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Old
11-24-2009, 06:54 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerfanatic View Post
it's really no contest...voracek is bigger, faster, and has greater offensive instinct...i was really impressed with him in that win against columbus at home...this guy would easily be on our first line right now..

gagner is slow, and small..he has career second liner written all over him...he isn't as talented as a datsyuk and doesn't have the grit of a guy like fleury and doesn't skate like cogliano (who will stay in the league due to his skating alone despite his lacklustre skill set)...you have to compensate your lack of size for something...gagner is a bits and pieces player..

oilers fudged up at the draft..........again..
Strange how this better...faster...player hasn't had a better season then Gagner has yet. Funny how that works.

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Old
11-24-2009, 06:55 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by oilerfanatic View Post
it's really no contest...voracek is bigger, faster, and has greater offensive instinct...i was really impressed with him in that win against columbus at home...this guy would easily be on our first line right now..

gagner is slow, and small..he has career second liner written all over him...he isn't as talented as a datsyuk and doesn't have the grit of a guy like fleury and doesn't skate like cogliano (who will stay in the league due to his skating alone despite his lacklustre skill set)...you have to compensate your lack of size for something...gagner is a bits and pieces player..

oilers fudged up at the draft..........again..
He has greater 'offensive instinct'? Based on what, other than your own perception?

And you would seriously play him above both Hemsky and Penner on our 1st line, both >PPG players this season? Really? I like Voracek, and I would've been fine with him as our pick in '07, but I surely don't understand that.

IMO they're both very good players, with their own skillsets. For you to proclaim that it's "no contest" based on the following production:

Voracek: 102-15-37-52, 52 PIM, 0.510 PPG
Gagner: 178-34-69-103, 87 PIM, 0.579 PPG

I dunno, seems a bit rash to me.

And for the record, for all the things you ding Gagner for not being (talented like Datsyuk, gritty like Fleury, fast like Cogliano)...Voracek isn't any of those either, at least in terms of those comparisons. What Voracek is, for sure, is bigger and faster than Gagner. That's it. That helps, but there's more to winning in the NHL than those traits.

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Old
11-24-2009, 06:59 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by AndreaBargnani View Post
I would have taken Voracek. In fact everything I read, everything I heard told me that the oilers would take Voracek. But I can't complain. Gagner has had a lot of good games for the oilers.
The only two reasons I figured the Oil would take Gagner over Voracek is when they mentioned that Sam wanted to be drafted by a Canadian team. It had also been mentioned that he did better at the combine than Voracek who it was hinted looked comparatively out of shape. Not a bad pick if you give up a bit of size for someone who is equal in skill, but trains like mad and has a passion to be on your team.

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Old
11-24-2009, 07:49 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
Gagner is 5'10 191lbs and Voracek is 6'1 and 205lbs. 2" and 14lbs doesnt make a huge difference...at any level.
Gagner 23GP 5G 8A 13Pts
Voracek 22GP 6G 8A 14Pts
It will be interesting to see how their careers pan out, and I'm sure both organizations will be happy with how they turned out....its just some fans will never be happy.
Funny how Gagners start is dissapointing to most, but Voracek's a pleasant suprise with 1 more goal.

I think they will have very similar careers especially if Gagner gets to have MSP and Eberle on his wings for 5-10 years.

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Old
11-24-2009, 08:03 PM
  #49
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I could care less about this pick because both will be great players. IMO the Oilers dropped the ball with the # 15 and # 21 picks. Ouch.

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11-24-2009, 08:04 PM
  #50
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The only two reasons I figured the Oil would take Gagner over Voracek is when they mentioned that Sam wanted to be drafted by a Canadian team. It had also been mentioned that he did better at the combine than Voracek who it was hinted looked comparatively out of shape. Not a bad pick if you give up a bit of size for someone who is equal in skill, but trains like mad and has a passion to be on your team.
Yeah the biggest knock on Voracek was that he was in poor physical shape and lacked professional drive. That and he was slow, Gagner was too but Voracek was slower.

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