I think Gillis' patience in making a trade is definitely not being 'too patient' . You make some great off-season moves, put a good team down on paper, they run into injuries -- only the most impatient would even consider trading.
If anything, my patience is running out on Vigneault. If we're not in a play-off spot after Daniel is back for awhile, I'd like to see him gone. With this defense, I'd rather see Crawford coaching.
I think Gillis' patience in making a trade is definitely not being 'too patient' . You make some great off-season moves, put a good team down on paper, they run into injuries -- only the most impatient would even consider trading.
If anything, my patience is running out on Vigneault. If we're not in a play-off spot after Daniel is back for awhile, I'd like to see him gone. With this defense, I'd rather see Crawford coaching.
Gillis has already shown he has all the patience in the world when it comes to AV... he is way more likely to make trades and change the makeup of the team before he is of firing Vigneault.
After what happened last season, I'm convinced that Vigneault will have this entire season before Gillis even thinks of firing him.
I think Gillis' patience in making a trade is definitely not being 'too patient' . You make some great off-season moves, put a good team down on paper, they run into injuries -- only the most impatient would even consider trading.
If anything, my patience is running out on Vigneault. If we're not in a play-off spot after Daniel is back for awhile, I'd like to see him gone. With this defense, I'd rather see Crawford coaching.
The Canucks defense is as active 1 through 6 as any in the league. They're all given the green light to jump up in the rush and are starting to become very effective doing so IMO.
I think we'll see the Canuck blueline start putting the puck in the net pretty quickly. You're not going to hold Bieksa, Edler and Salo to 1 goal between them for long and Ehroff is on a mission to score goals.
IMO the team needs to be a 100pt + team inthe standings before you make moves that trade away prospects for rental types. This is where you become less patient in a move to win the Cup that year. We are not there right now.
This is exactly how I feel as well. Being impatient now (or even last season) to land a rental simply does not make sense. You're jeopardizing future to get from what was more or less as a 6-10th seed (which is where we were leading up to the trade deadline last season and where we are now) into what one hopes is a top 4 seed.
I would much rather see us trade assets to go from a top 4 seed to an outright cup favorite or at least respected contender.
I've always felt Gillis' plan was to take the team he inherited and turn it into a true contender over a longer year period so long as we can stay in the playoffs each year. I feel we're almost rebuilding but instead of rebuilding in the traditional way which Pittsburgh, Washington and Anaheim did we're doing it in a modified way that sees us go from a 6-8th place team to a contender. It takes longer this way because you don't get top 5 picks. It also takes longer when a guy like Luc Bourdon passes away.
It's a slow and steady build but it's fairly simple:
1) Improve drafting
2) Don't trade draft picks
3) Sign any players that you don't give up assets for
4) Don't make any stupid signings that help now but cost you later.
The idea is you don't trade second and third round draft picks for rental players when you can instead get creative like signing Schneider and putting him on the IR, faking an injury for Demitra *cough*, trying to land Forsberg, etc.
With that being said, Gillis added depth in Vaananen last season before the trade deadline and I think we can all agree we need a bit more depth in the forward position and to potentially replace Wellwood and that we know Gillis has been patient with. Too patient? Maybe. But like somebody said already it's incredibly hard to make trades these days as it is.
I see us making a more "impatient" move to push us over the top once we have new young players on our roster who are successful (at least we hope). If Hodgson and Schroeder can be ~60+ point players on rookie contracts and push us up the standings then we can go out and trade some big picks in a couple seasons to really push us over the top.
The Canucks last game was against a team playing it's 3rd game in 4 nights,starting their backup goalie & the Canucks couldn't buy a hit let alone a goal.
It's pretty clear the 3rd line centre isn't the most pressing problem the Canucks are too soft as a team. Moves need to be made.
The Canucks last game was against a team playing it's 3rd game in 4 nights,starting their backup goalie & the Canucks couldn't buy a hit let alone a goal.
It's pretty clear the 3rd line centre isn't the most pressing problem the Canucks are too soft as a team. Moves need to be made.
Hhaha wow. That is a very informed opinion....
Your right though they barely had any shots...let chicago run all over them and have the most shots in the game...oh wait they had less then 20?
This is very similar to all the guys who wanted to trade away Raymond,and grabner for nothing...and have played well.
In the two Chi games the Hawks were outplayed by the Canucks.The first gm the canucks were playing 4th gm in 6 nights and missing 4 main regulars--salo,Daniel,Rypien,and demo....and they still won
the last game they outplayed the hawks except for some very good forays by the Hawks.....Hawks probably the best team right now with SJ
daniel comes back in his first game,Hansen just back.....our dmen are now healthy.....so they will put up the numbers,because they have played well without.....
Will MG make a deal to make this team better---yes he will---but what deal is out there that is better than what we have,..incl the cost(player going the otherway)....and we are not going to get a good return on say a Obrien,Bolduc,Hordi........and any other player isnt going to get us enough of a return to replace his loss to the lineup.
gillis still has yet to get us a #1 dman that we have been lacking for almost 40 years
i will give him some time though. maybe we can start drafting more defencemen
So unless Edler or Ehrhoff develop into that player this year or Sauve or Kevin connignton sp? in the next few years...then you are going to have make a trade and realize that player is going to cost over 6 mil.
AS mG stated earlier in the year...we might not get that #1 dman for a few years because of cap restaints....
exp....Cgy has two #1 but cant afford a centerman or more snipers...so Iggy has to be relied on to carry the offence.
SJ has Boyle but cant afford any scorers to fill out thethird or fourth lines
Phi has Pronger and forwards but cant afford a top notch goalie...
its all give and take.......if this injury bug continues to hit all teams throughout the season then the canucks may be th ebest team left standing ...because of their depth
Part of me wants to blame Gillis in the offseason for not doing something to improve our third line center position then. Now we have Wellwood on the books and to replace him we more or less have to give up an asset to do so. Nobody is going to give us anything for Wellwood right now.
We could use C. Schneider but I'd much prefer to trade him for a young defenseman once his value goes up (assuming and hoping it does in fact do so).
On paper Gillis made good choices in the offseason, but who would have thought it'd turn out this way? While I didn't count on Shirokov making an impact he did show signs. While I didn't count on Hodgson making an impact I thought it would be quite likely.
I really thought Wellwood would pick up where he left off last year. He had great playoffs, he was coming to camp in shape, what the hell happened?
You add to that the Demitra injury and the Hodgson injury and realize how unfortunate we've been to start this season.
With all the players I just mentioned being unable to fill that role for one reason or another we have a huge hole that needs to be filled right now.
Part of me wants to blame Gillis in the offseason for not doing something to improve our third line center position then. Now we have Wellwood on the books and to replace him we more or less have to give up an asset to do so. Nobody is going to give us anything for Wellwood right now.
We could use C. Schneider but I'd much prefer to trade him for a young defenseman once his value goes up (assuming and hoping it does in fact do so).
On paper Gillis made good choices in the offseason, but who would have thought it'd turn out this way? While I didn't count on Shirokov making an impact he did show signs. While I didn't count on Hodgson making an impact I thought it would be quite likely.
I really thought Wellwood would pick up where he left off last year. He had great playoffs, he was coming to camp in shape, what the hell happened?
You add to that the Demitra injury and the Hodgson injury and realize how unfortunate we've been to start this season.
With all the players I just mentioned being unable to fill that role for one reason or another we have a huge hole that needs to be filled right now.
You listed all the reasons you cannot blame him for expecting the third line center to be fine.
Part of me wants to blame Gillis in the offseason for not doing something to improve our third line center position then. Now we have Wellwood on the books and to replace him we more or less have to give up an asset to do so. Nobody is going to give us anything for Wellwood right now.
...
With all the players I just mentioned being unable to fill that role for one reason or another we have a huge hole that needs to be filled right now.
In hindsight, it is crazy that Manny Malhotra - he of the 35 points, 5th on his team in icetime among forwards, 58% on faceoffs - was hanging around in Vancouver with Canucks players, and ended up signing in San Jose for just $700K.
We could have saved half a million on Wellwood, and if Hodgson was healthy and made the time we might have the best center depth in the league.
Above all, I think we can all agree Mike Gillis has shown an amazing amount of patience since he's been our GM.
Waiting much longer than any casual fan could fathom through the highs and lows of a season, I'm wondering what people here think: is he TOO patient? Or does his style lend well to aquiring good players when needed and instilling confidence in the existing players?
Even with Nonis, I recall the constant trade rumours floating around. This year, none - absolutely stagnant on any substantial rumours. Is our team reallly that much better than other years, or is it the calm, patient leadership of Gillis that makes us feel this group can do better?
Appreciate your feedback.
I absolutely don't he's too patient. Everyone has stated what how his patient has helped but he's not TOO patient. What about the quick moves he did make?
Take the Samuelsson signing happened. I was clear and away TOTALLY against it, to me it seemed like redundant signing as we already had a TON of guys of that calibre but he did it for the team depth.
Look how that turned out Team Mike Gillis is held the fort and is still in the mix while Team YogiCanucks is dwelling in the basement (Not as bad as the Leafs but you get what I'm saying)
I'm very happy with gillis. I also liked nonis and i felt he did okay for his stay here. nonis declined a few big trades even when he was under pressure.. it was only burke that did all sorts of crazy things
In hindsight, it is crazy that Manny Malhotra - he of the 35 points, 5th on his team in icetime among forwards, 58% on faceoffs - was hanging around in Vancouver with Canucks players, and ended up signing in San Jose for just $700K.
We could have saved half a million on Wellwood, and if Hodgson was healthy and made the time we might have the best center depth in the league.
Wellwood forced the current contract with arbitration and made sure that the Canucks could not walk away by asking for just under the "walk away threshhold".
In hindsight, it is crazy that Manny Malhotra - he of the 35 points, 5th on his team in icetime among forwards, 58% on faceoffs - was hanging around in Vancouver with Canucks players, and ended up signing in San Jose for just $700K.
We could have saved half a million on Wellwood, and if Hodgson was healthy and made the time we might have the best center depth in the league.
adding a 19 YO rookie, and an upgrade from Wellwood to Malhotra would give this team the best center depth in the league?
you do realize that there's a team in Pittsburgh, right?
those upgrades might have given the Canucks a respectable center group that is at least near the league average overall... but I wouldn't consider them the anywhere near the best... not until Hodgson actually proves he can contribute in the NHL level at the very least.
If a GM isn't making a trade, being active on the waiver wire, get his names in rumours, or constantly doing interviews/soundbites, I become very agitated and worried that they are not doing their job.
If a GM isn't making a trade, being active on the waiver wire, get his names in rumours, or constantly doing interviews/soundbites, I become very agitated and worried that they are not doing their job.
You forgot the main job of a GM - put together a team with the proper levels of pugnacity, testosterone, truculence and belligerence. That is the real key to success.
You forgot the main job of a GM - put together a team with the proper levels of pugnacity, testosterone, truculence and belligerence. That is the real key to success.
if Brian Burke was a poster on this board, you'd have been banned long time ago
Wellwood forced the current contract with arbitration and made sure that the Canucks could not walk away by asking for just under the "walk away threshhold".
Yep - they'd have to find a way to dump his contract on another team or in the minors (as they did with Michel Ouellet last year).
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
adding a 19 YO rookie, and an upgrade from Wellwood to Malhotra would give this team the best center depth in the league?
you do realize that there's a team in Pittsburgh, right?
I said depth, which to me means 1-4 or even 1-5. Obviously Pittsburgh's huge advantage 1-3 gives them far and away the best centers in the league, but I think Vancouver would be sitting pretty with:
Henrik: perennial top scorer in this league and solid all-around player
Kesler: emerging impact player that is now on pace to put up first line numbers
Malhotra: played a top six role in Columbus, dominant on the dot and a good defensive player
Hodgson: hard to gauge, looked awful in preseason but almost all of his poor play can be attributed to his injury
Johnson: meh - solid depth guy, and would probably look better if he'd been playing the wing all this time
Wellwood: probably wouldn't even be on the team.
I'm guessing here, but you wouldn't disagree with the suggestion that we might have the best "depth centers" in the league rather than the best center depth if this had come to pass... would you?
I said depth, which to me means 1-4 or even 1-5. Obviously Pittsburgh's huge advantage 1-3 gives them far and away the best centers in the league, but I think Vancouver would be sitting pretty with:
Henrik: perennial top scorer in this league and solid all-around player
Kesler: emerging impact player that is now on pace to put up first line numbers
Malhotra: played a top six role in Columbus, dominant on the dot and a good defensive player
Hodgson: hard to gauge, looked awful in preseason but almost all of his poor play can be attributed to his injury
Johnson: meh - solid depth guy, and would probably look better if he'd been playing the wing all this time
Wellwood: probably wouldn't even be on the team.
I'm guessing here, but you wouldn't disagree with the suggestion that we might have the best "depth centers" in the league rather than the best center depth if this had come to pass... would you?
But that's six centers. We'd never have six centers around, maybe not even 5, so we wouldn't have that depth.
We have five right now. Six if you count the injured guy (Demitra), but I didn't suggest we'd have six - I said we'd probably get rid of Wellwood in that scenario.
If a GM isn't making a trade, being active on the waiver wire, get his names in rumours, or constantly doing interviews/soundbites, I become very agitated and worried that they are not doing their job.
You must be really missing Burke then.
I'm more than happy with Gillis. Considering the injuries the team did pretty well. And he did address the third line C with resigning Wellwood. Who could've predicted his slump?
