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Keeping up with potential owners for NHL Phoenix Coyotes (UPD: Ice Edge signs LOI)

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11-24-2009, 11:56 PM
  #1
LadyStanley
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Keeping up with potential owners for NHL Phoenix Coyotes (UPD: Ice Edge signs LOI)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...Latest+News%29
Stotland leads group interested in purchasing Coyotes

Quote:
Montreal businessman Steve Stotland is leading a group of Phoenix-area investors who want to buy the NHLs Coyotes and keep the team in Glendale, Ariz.
Stotland, part of a group that looked into buying the Montreal Canadiens when they were up for sale in 2000 and again this past spring, said he began pursuing the Coyotes after the team emerged from bankruptcy court and was sold to the NHL this month.
...
I can confirm that weve had discussions and we continue to be in contact, NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said. I know hes done due diligence and met with the team and thats the extent of it. He seems to be excited by the prospect of owning the team and well see where it goes.
...
Stotland said he is the only member of the group not living in Phoenix but plans to move to the city if his group ends up with the team.

Mod note: I think the aspects of Phoenix as a market have been talked to death. Let's keep this thread focused on the potential owners (and their qualifications/plans). "Keep moving forward"


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11-25-2009, 12:03 AM
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http://blogs.forbes.com/sportsmoneyb...onauts-owners/

Forbes warns NHL against Toronto Argonaut owners as they seem to be running their sports empire with smoke and mirrors.

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11-25-2009, 12:39 AM
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I am somewhat skeptical about reports suggesting that the intention of some of these potential new owners -- many it seems that are Canadian businessmen -- is to keep the team in Phoenix long-term. Could they be frontmen for different agendas?

GHOST

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11-25-2009, 01:08 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://blogs.forbes.com/sportsmoneyb...onauts-owners/

Forbes warns NHL against Toronto Argonaut owners as they seem to be running their sports empire with smoke and mirrors.
Sounds like "Jerry Moyes: The Sequel." Forbes' reporting on Moyes, Swift and the business-side of the Coyotes has been solid for years, so this definitely got my attention. Curious what Argos fans think of this ownership group.

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11-25-2009, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GHOSTofMAROONSroad View Post
I am somewhat skeptical about reports suggesting that the intention of some of these potential new owners -- many it seems that are Canadian businessmen -- is to keep the team in Phoenix long-term. Could they be frontmen for different agendas?

GHOST
It's one of those thing you kind of have to say these days when you buy any professional franchise .. you could run out and buy the Yankees, and somebody somewhere would lose sleep, worrying that they might move to Fargo.

Also, bear in mind that the vultures here at HF, who think Balsille/Hamilton/Canada 'deserves' the Phoenix Coyotes, are not representative of the mindset of all Canadians. Smart businessmen are businessmen first, and if they see an opportunity to make money in the desert, the fact that they could also make money in Hamilton/Saskatoon/Kenora is irrelevant.

That isn't to say that a future owner wouldn't move them north of the border if things don't work out; they just have to show an in-good-faith commitment of making things work in/for Phoenix.

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11-25-2009, 09:41 AM
  #6
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I just don't see who would want to own a team in Phoenix now given everything that has happened (including the horrid attendance).

IMO, almost all of these potential owners have some sort of back up plan incase Phoenix doesn't work (ie. Vegas, KC, Quebec City)

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11-25-2009, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GHOSTofMAROONSroad View Post
I am somewhat skeptical about reports suggesting that the intention of some of these potential new owners -- many it seems that are Canadian businessmen -- is to keep the team in Phoenix long-term. Could they be frontmen for different agendas?

GHOST
I suppose when this guy bought a franchise fans might have asked the same question. Sounds a bit sketchy to me and seeing his background, wouldn't he likely move an Eastern team?

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He was born in Rocky River, Ohio.


He joined the United States Air Force after graduation, was commissioned a second lieutenant and was posted to Lockbourne Air Force Base in Columbus, Ohio. Following honorable discharge in he did post-graduate study at The Ohio State University , earning his master's degree in physical education. He served as a graduate assistant to the football coach. The Buckeyes were undefeated national champions that year, and winning their BCS Bowl. He met his wife-to-be, in Columbus, and married her on May 12. The couple have been married ever since, and have two sons, and two daughters. He served as an assistant football coach at Northwestern University, and at Purdue University.


Then, he joined Kinsman Marine Transit Company, his father's Cleveland based Great Lakes shipping company, and worked hard to successfully revitalize the company, which was suffering through difficult market conditions. In its return to profitability, Kinsman emphasized grain shipments over ore. He made his money as chairman of the Cleveland-based firm.

Against his father's wishes, he entered the sports franchise business for the first time with a Cleveland pro basketball team. The team was coached by the first African American coach in professional basketball. The coach had led his university to three straight NAIA small college championships. The Cleveland team switched to a new professional basketball league, set up to compete with the NBA; the new circuit was founded by a famous and wealthy team owner who was tired of the exclusivity and stodginess of the NBA. The league and team experienced financial problems, and the coach resigned in protest halfway through the season; however, the team had won the first half of a split season. The owner replaced the coach with a former Boston Celtics star, and the team won the League championship. The League folded just months into its second season. He and his partners lost significant money on the venture, but he paid off all of his creditors and partners over the next few years.

Later this man and a minority partner led a group of investors, in purchasing a sports franchise for $10 million.
Who? George Steinbrenner. The team? New York Yankees

Quote:
Originally Posted by Running Riot View Post
I just don't see who would want to own a team in Phoenix now given everything that has happened (including the horrid attendance).

IMO, almost all of these potential owners have some sort of back up plan incase Phoenix doesn't work (ie. Vegas, KC, Quebec City)

I believe any buyers are performing due diligence and believe they can make the situation palatable. Assuming the buyers are reasonably competent, there are always alternate scenarios if plans fail. I think the potential to move depends on what it will cost to break the lease.


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11-25-2009, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Running Riot View Post
I just don't see who would want to own a team in Phoenix now given everything that has happened (including the horrid attendance).

IMO, almost all of these potential owners have some sort of back up plan incase Phoenix doesn't work (ie. Vegas, KC, Quebec City)
Ever heard of buying a stock at a low price? In business, you want to buy a low stock or a company that isn't doing well and rebuild it.

There's over 4 million people in the metro area. They have a beautiful new arena and a young exciting team that can only go up in the standings.

And there is no connection at all between the team and the fans right now. They just need to build a connection to the fans. Similar to what Dallas has done over the years.

The potential value of this team is huge.

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11-25-2009, 11:07 AM
  #9
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Originally Posted by Jonas1235 View Post
Ever heard of buying a stock at a low price? In business, you want to buy a low stock or a company that isn't doing well and rebuild it.

There's over 4 million people in the metro area. They have a beautiful new arena and a young exciting team that can only go up in the standings.

And there is no connection at all between the team and the fans right now. They just need to build a connection to the fans. Similar to what Dallas has done over the years.

The potential value of this team is huge.
Buying them at $80 MM was a good price. The current price isn't anything remotely close to market value, but what it took the NHL to convince the creditors to back their bid (and thus the judge). $80 MM was owed to Dell's fund alone, and some $30+ MM was NHL money... (I may be off on the exact dollar amts, but I'm in the ballpark.)

The NHL had to win the bid for reasons beyond just the Coyotes, including the protection of their rights and partners whom the league wished to protects (Glendale, creditors/investors/contracted businesses, etc.).

I think there is interest in the Coyotes, but perhaps similarly to Tampa, it's the sticker price as compared to financial condition and current revenue streams that will make people kick the tires with great care.


What do you see as the potential value?

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11-25-2009, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas1235 View Post
The potential value of this team is huge.
I hope Kevin O'Leary isn't reading this

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11-25-2009, 11:23 AM
  #11
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Still waiting to see what the renegotiated lease looks like. The others failed to reach and agreement with Glendale. Not sure how successful new potential owners will be.

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11-25-2009, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Buying them at $80 MM was a good price. The current price isn't anything remotely close to market value, but what it took the NHL to convince the creditors to back their bid (and thus the judge). $80 MM was owed to Dell's fund alone, and some $30+ MM was NHL money... (I may be off on the exact dollar amts, but I'm in the ballpark.)

The NHL had to win the bid for reasons beyond just the Coyotes, including the protection of their rights and partners whom the league wished to protects (Glendale, creditors/investors/contracted businesses, etc.).

I think there is interest in the Coyotes, but perhaps similarly to Tampa, it's the sticker price as compared to financial condition and current revenue streams that will make people kick the tires with great care.


What do you see as the potential value?
THe price at which something was sold - ACTUALLY SOLD - is not market value.

What an interesting proposition, particularly for someone who has evidenced in the past a clear inclination for Chicago-school delusionism (their delusionism, not yours).

The market price for any unique item is the last sale price until it sells for something else, is it not?

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11-25-2009, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Haymaker View Post
I hope Kevin O'Leary isn't reading this
Don't be a silly chicken.

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11-25-2009, 12:54 PM
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It's basically an expansion team at this point. The new owners can takeover and completely rebuild the business side of the team. They get a new lease and will get access to money that Moyes was never able to get.

They have a young team that can only grow. Right now they're competitive with 40 million in payroll. They can make the playoffs consistently if they spend more money.

A brand new arena.

They'll only have to pay 140 million or so. Which is peanuts in sports these days for a professional sports team.

They just need to connect with the fans. Which they will likely be able to do with more winning and getting out into the community.

The potential is that Phoenix can become the next Dallas. Building hockey at the grassroots level combined with winning can equal a strong market.

Who would have thought that Dallas would be a top 10 market for the NHL. This team CAN be similar to them.

It's up to the new owners to get it done.

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11-25-2009, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSC2k2 View Post
THe price at which something was sold - ACTUALLY SOLD - is not market value.

What an interesting proposition, particularly for someone who has evidenced in the past a clear inclination for Chicago-school delusionism (their delusionism, not yours).

The market price for any unique item is the last sale price until it sells for something else, is it not?
Says the guy who has cited Veblen Goods in this here forum.

Pffft. I'll still take all those Nobel laureates ideas on the art (note that economics is not a science until they fix their X and Y axes...)-- over other "schools of thought".

Not my fault others have misunderstood what rational expectations ~really~ means.

As we know, aggregate and individual behavior are not one and the same, and futhermore, to quote Yogi again, "It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future."

Tee hee.


All silliness aside, a bankruptcy court is not a market. Seems more like a planned economy kinda thingy... and all the pricing experts would chafe at the idea that costs (debts) carried any weight.

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11-25-2009, 01:15 PM
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http://www.canada.com/sports/needs+s...517/story.html
Montreal Gazette pundit thinks sale needs to go through sooner than later, but....
Quote:
If there were six groups interested in buying the team, there would have been no reason for the NHL to buy the club.
...
Ice Edge is still regarded as a potential owner, but the NHL seems to have some reservations about the group's finances and a goofy plan to play four or five "home" games a season in Saskatoon.

There is an incentive for Bettman to find a sucker, er buyer, as quickly as possible because the Coyotes can't draw fans and they're losing money almost as fast as General Motors.

http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/phoen...ml?jst=b_ln_hl
Phoenix Business Journal on Stotland ownership group

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11-25-2009, 02:38 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://www.canada.com/sports/needs+s...517/story.html
Montreal Gazette pundit thinks sale needs to go through sooner than later, but....
I got as far as, "Bettman told reporters that six groups have lined up to buy the Phoenix Coyotes..." and stopped, since Bettman never said that.

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11-25-2009, 03:14 PM
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In other news, the Goldwater Institute is guarding the wallets of the good people of Arizona yet again:


http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/phoen...tml?ana=tt3245

Quote:
A lawsuit has been filed to squelch a $148,000 incentive the city of Tempe is offering for development of an aquarium at Arizona Mills Mall.

The Goldwater Institute says city incentives planned to help UK-based Merlin Entertainments Group build Sea Life Aquarium at Arizona Mills violate state laws against subsidies for private businesses and equal protection statutes because the same help is not extended to other businesses.
It will cost both the GI and Tempe each more than $148,000 for this publicity stunt.


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11-25-2009, 04:22 PM
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Sounds like "Jerry Moyes: The Sequel." Forbes' reporting on Moyes, Swift and the business-side of the Coyotes has been solid for years, so this definitely got my attention. Curious what Argos fans think of this ownership group.
Im not an Argo fan (TiCats) but for what they have, they are not that bad.

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11-25-2009, 04:46 PM
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I got as far as, "Bettman told reporters that six groups have lined up to buy the Phoenix Coyotes..." and stopped, since Bettman never said that.
he said "half a dozen" potential owners have contacted the league.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=4662034

AP story

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11-25-2009, 04:55 PM
  #21
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he said "half a dozen" potential owners have contacted the league.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=4662034

AP story
Which is not even remotely close to saying, "six groups have lined up to buy the Phoenix Coyotes." Not sure about you, but when I "line up to buy" something, I have cash or credit in hand ready to close the sale.

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11-26-2009, 12:00 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://www.canada.com/sports/needs+s...517/story.html
Montreal Gazette pundit thinks sale needs to go through sooner than later, but....



http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/phoen...ml?jst=b_ln_hl
Phoenix Business Journal on Stotland ownership group
Just because someone didn't want to go through the scrutiny of a bankruptcy case and spend millions of dollars on a team that might not win, doesn't mean that they wouldn't go through the process if it wasn't going to cost them big money on lawyers in bankruptcy.

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11-26-2009, 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by He Lied to Mario View Post
Just because someone didn't want to go through the scrutiny of a bankruptcy case and spend millions of dollars on a team that might not win, doesn't mean that they wouldn't go through the process if it wasn't going to cost them big money on lawyers in bankruptcy.
But isnt this what made JB so evil geez he acts like a financial predator who smelled blood and thats bad but now its ok lol.
the irony in the different posts here make me laugh at times , and it dosnt much matter who or what but Gbs running behind getting new owners and stability this team needs when i read they are doing "due dillogence i see Boots and Barrie in Pho "
time for fans there to see some results .

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11-26-2009, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by RR View Post
Which is not even remotely close to saying, "six groups have lined up to buy the Phoenix Coyotes." Not sure about you, but when I "line up to buy" something, I have cash or credit in hand ready to close the sale.
not only that, but if you watch the presser where he said that he gives a look over to daly and asks him "what, about half a dozen?" answering the reporter's question with a question. i knew as soon as i saw that that the media would etch that into stone as 6 different groups ready to buy.

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11-26-2009, 08:55 AM
  #25
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not only that, but if you watch the presser where he said that he gives a look over to daly and asks him "what, about half a dozen?" answering the reporter's question with a question. i knew as soon as i saw that that the media would etch that into stone as 6 different groups ready to buy.

Which presser was that?

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