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ATD12,Foster Hewitt Quarterfinals.Betelgeuse Hitchhikers(3) vs. Chicago Blackhawks(6)

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Old
11-25-2009, 07:15 AM
  #1
Leafs Forever
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ATD12,Foster Hewitt Quarterfinals.Betelgeuse Hitchhikers(3) vs. Chicago Blackhawks(6)

Betelgeuse Hitchhikers



GM: Jungosi
Coach : Harry Sinden
Assistant : Bill Dineen

Keith Tkachuk - Wayne Gretzky - Jari Kurri
Alexander Yakushev - Vyacheslav Starshinov - Helmut Balderis
Nick Metz - Doug Jarvis - Rusty Crawford
Johnny Peirson - Paul Ronty - Don Maloney
Ron Duguay

Rod Langway - Larry Murphy
Sergei Zubov - Leo Reise jr.
Glen Harmon - Dave Langevin
Dan Boyle

Jiri Holecek
Roger Crozier

Spare team

Rick Kehoe - Erich Kuehnhackl - Serge Bernier
Udo Kiessling - Hy Buller
Evgeni Nabokov

Special teams :

Powerplay unit 1 : Tkachuk - Gretzky - Kurri - Murphy - Harmon
Powerplay unit 2 : Yakushev - Starshinov - Balderis - Zubov - Reise
Penalty kill unit 1 : Jarvis - Metz - Langway - Zubov
Penalty kill unit 2 : Gretzky - Kurri - Murphy - Langevin

vs.

Chicago Blackhawks


GM: Evil Sather
Coach: Red Berenson

Bun Cook - Dale Hawerchuk - Bill Cook
Dean Prentice - Stan Mikita - Steve Larmer
Jere Lehtinen - Vincent Damphousse - Dave Taylor
xxx - Doug Risebrough - Tomas Sandstrom
Scratches: Steve Vickers, Marcel Bonin

Eddie Gerard - Doug Mohns
Hobey Baker - Rob Ramage
Reed Larson - Dion Phaneuf
7th D: Keith Magnuson
Scratches: Joe Jerwa

Bill Durnan
Mike Richter

PP1: Cook-Hawerchuk-Cook, Gerard-Ramge
PP2: Larmer-Mikita-Taylor, Larson-Phaneuf
PK1: Mikita-Larmer , Gerard-Magnuson
PK2: Risebrough-Lehtinen Mohns-Phaneuf

Call-Ups:
Mike Rogers, Mike Ricci, Zach Parise, Todd Bertuzzi, Roman Hamrlik, Chris Osgood


Last edited by Leafs Forever: 11-25-2009 at 03:24 PM.
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Old
11-25-2009, 01:49 PM
  #2
Jungosi
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Well, first off I really don't think that the Blackhawks deserve to be a 6th seed, they are better than that but in this edition draft who isn't?

Gretzky and Kurri will see a lot of icetime this series. They will be out mostly against the Blackhawk's top line because I feel that they will outscore the 2/3 Bread-line by a fair margin. Especially the match-up of Keith Magnuson against the Gretzky line should work in my advantage because I think this is really a HUGE mismatch.

I view your second line as an equal threat to your first line and they will often see Jarvis and company at home. The Mikita-line provides excellent two-way play and I think the Russians would be wasted against them. They will see a rather limited icetime against your bottom lines and give me fresh legs whenever I need them. Your bottom pairing should look really bad against the Russians' speed and excellent passing skills.

In general I think that the Hitchhiker's defense has an solid advantage over the Blackhawks. Defense wins championchips and while the offense of the respective teams aren't to far away from each other the defense seals the deal here.

More tomorrow. Darwin and Biology exam calling.

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11-26-2009, 02:41 AM
  #3
Evil Sather
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Congrats on your finish Jungosi.

First off, you can try to get the Gretzky unit against the Cook line, but they're going to see a lot of the Mikita unit who I think can neutralize them pretty well. Mikita may very well outscore Gretzky head-to-head if Gretz can't skate around the offensive zone unimpeded (and he WONT), and Kurri's linemates aren't terribly fond of backchecking. I think it's YOU that is going to have the problem defensively.

I'd be thrilled for the 2/3 Bread line to go up against the Jarvis unit. Your unit is a 0 offensively while the Cook(s) n' Dale will assuredly score against your checking line even if you match perfectly. If you don't... look out. Other than Kurri I don't see much standing in their way on any other line.

"The Russians would be wasted against them" lol.... more like the Russians would be ground into paste against them. VERY good idea to keep them away, but my 3rd/4th lines are VERY capable both ways and I'm pretty confident yours can't say the same.

Other than stapling Mikita to Gretzky I don't have to linematch my forwards at all against your squad.

I re-did my defense pairings again and those WILL be matched when possible Gerard and Mohns against the Gretzky unit, Baker and Ramage's skating against your speedy Russians. I think they match up well. The remaining pylon crew I don't think has much to fear against your lower lines.

I'm dressing Magnuson as a 7th D because he's just going to be way too good on the PK and as a guy on the ice protecting a 1 goal lead in the final minute. As long as I put a shock collar on him that goes off when he crosses the red line, he'll be fine.

Your defensive corps has an advantage over mine. Your forwards defensive capabilities, with a few notable exceptions, leaves much to be desired. My guys are a literal army of 2-way play, grit, and grind. Can your grit guys skate well enough to keep up? Can your skating guys grind well enough in the tough battles? Does Gretzky, Tkachuk, the Russians, and your bottom line have the defensive chops to defend my forwards?

If my D has anything, it's puck moving ability and offensive skill. Your 3rd and 4th lines look ripe for exploiting in that regard.

Durnan is a full level above Holecek. You have no coaching advantage (if anything, he might be tactically one the worst coaches in the draft). You've got a class A first line and a class A- checking line. The rest of your team looks decidedly average to below, and my superior depth overall will just wear you guys down.

Hawks in 6.

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Old
11-26-2009, 09:01 AM
  #4
Jungosi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Sather View Post
Congrats on your finish Jungosi.

First off, you can try to get the Gretzky unit against the Cook line, but they're going to see a lot of the Mikita unit who I think can neutralize them pretty well. Mikita may very well outscore Gretzky head-to-head if Gretz can't skate around the offensive zone unimpeded (and he WONT), and Kurri's linemates aren't terribly fond of backchecking. I think it's YOU that is going to have the problem defensively.

I'd be thrilled for the 2/3 Bread line to go up against the Jarvis unit. Your unit is a 0 offensively while the Cook(s) n' Dale will assuredly score against your checking line even if you match perfectly. If you don't... look out. Other than Kurri I don't see much standing in their way on any other line.

"The Russians would be wasted against them" lol.... more like the Russians would be ground into paste against them. VERY good idea to keep them away, but my 3rd/4th lines are VERY capable both ways and I'm pretty confident yours can't say the same.

Other than stapling Mikita to Gretzky I don't have to linematch my forwards at all against your squad.

I re-did my defense pairings again and those WILL be matched when possible Gerard and Mohns against the Gretzky unit, Baker and Ramage's skating against your speedy Russians. I think they match up well. The remaining pylon crew I don't think has much to fear against your lower lines.

I'm dressing Magnuson as a 7th D because he's just going to be way too good on the PK and as a guy on the ice protecting a 1 goal lead in the final minute. As long as I put a shock collar on him that goes off when he crosses the red line, he'll be fine.

Your defensive corps has an advantage over mine. Your forwards defensive capabilities, with a few notable exceptions, leaves much to be desired. My guys are a literal army of 2-way play, grit, and grind. Can your grit guys skate well enough to keep up? Can your skating guys grind well enough in the tough battles? Does Gretzky, Tkachuk, the Russians, and your bottom line have the defensive chops to defend my forwards?

If my D has anything, it's puck moving ability and offensive skill. Your 3rd and 4th lines look ripe for exploiting in that regard.

Durnan is a full level above Holecek. You have no coaching advantage (if anything, he might be tactically one the worst coaches in the draft). You've got a class A first line and a class A- checking line. The rest of your team looks decidedly average to below, and my superior depth overall will just wear you guys down.

Hawks in 6.
No one can neutralize Gretzky-Kurri in the playoffs and that you say that Mikita could outscore him is quite ridiculous. Mikita was fine defensive player but his claim to fame is his offense. He certainly isn't the Keon/Clarke category who are the only players that could try to stop Gretzky. And for the forechecking : Gretzky and company destroyed record books without being huge forecheckers didn't they? You can match-up Mikita against Gretzky if you want to but can Stan and his rather sub-par wingers go against the Secretary of defense?
Larmer is fine but Prentice? They got a whopping 3 top-10 finishes in goals combined. Your second line will hardly score if they go against my first unit. Quite a mismatch offensively infact.

You know that it was Yakushev who stood out most against Canada aside from Kharlamov. He won't be worn down by your guys.He played infront of the Plus they have to get the Russians first. Also I am waiting for a proof what makes Hobey Baker a defenseman that can log around 18 minutes per game on a second pairing? Ramage as mentioned is not a defensive stalwart and the offense generated by your bottom lines isn't exactly something to be afraid of. Dave Taylor wasn't much without Dionne and Simmer. Neither Lethinen nor the rest of your gang ever did something offensively while Ronty and Peirson, whom your a selling short massively put up some nice offensive numbers. Ronty has four top-5 finishes in assists and Peirson gives me 3 top-10 finishes in goal-scoring. So whom is exploiting whom? Johnny Peirson also was a pretty capable backchecker and Don Maloney isn't the guy you want to play against in a corner. So this line should work really good against your bottom guys.

With all the pimping of your forwards you even admitted it yourself. The most important part of the defense, the defense itself isn't anything special at all.

Hitchhikers in 6


Last edited by Jungosi: 11-26-2009 at 09:15 AM.
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Old
11-26-2009, 08:55 PM
  #5
Evil Sather
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Gretzky never had a force like Mikita to deal with both ways. To say only Keon or Clarke could defend him is equally as ridiculous as you claim I'm being. You can't shut Gretzky down. You can harass and annoy him, and it's going to be really hard for Gretz to score if he has to play 200 feet away from Durnan. Mikita has the speed, smarts, and ability to give Gretzky a tremendous amount of trouble at even strength.

As far as Langway goes, I would be absolutely thrilled to have him matched against Prentice, Mikita, and Larmer. I strongly encourage you to pursue this course of action.

You denigrating Larmer and Prentice's goal scoring records is fine. They're not first liners and aren't meant to be. They probably won't outscore the Gretzky unit and I'm fine with taking that loss. But they will certainly limit the damage.

Having Yakushev be able to take punishment doesn't mean he'll dish it out, or make his linemates feel bigger or play more aggressively. That's still a weak 2nd unit. Feel free to explain which line they'll decimate.

The Baker question is unanswerable. I think he has the requisite accolades to not be overly exposed and should have the footspeed to keep up. You don't? Ok. This isn't some trump card to pull out, prove to ME he isn't capable because his HHOF bio certainly insinuates he is.

Slagging Taylor is absurd. Wow, if you take out his 3-4 best years he's not as good of a player. Brilliant. Saying my forwards never did anything offensively is so bad I don't even know where to begin.

You have a couple nice guys on the 4th line offensively but what I was getting at was variations on the same theme that I don't think your forwards outside of hte 3rd + Kurri were anything better than average if that, and maybe a little slow.

You never addressed the goaltending gap.
Your 2nd line seems to go one way.
You've got maybe 5 forwards who can defend.
Your 2nd pair will be overmatched vs the the Cooks and Hawerchuk.
I can just roll guys and you'll have to line match.

BTW, this isn't just to you. But I'll say it again. It's disingenuous if not dishonest to use top-5 or top-10 goal/assist finishes with a 50s player in the same breath as an 80s player as with a 20s player. It's just not the same scale, it's not even close.

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Old
11-27-2009, 01:57 AM
  #6
Jungosi
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The goaltending gap ok : It exists of course but you know about Durnan's questionable playoff record don't you?

My second line isn't as one dimensional or soft as you say.

Quote:
His trademarks were wicked shot on the net from any angle and a feisty character, his love to play physical and hard-hitting hockey. As a player of Moscow Spartak, Starshinov was one of the most valuable players in its championships of the 1960's. On both national and club level, he was a team leader and enjoyed an enormous respect among his teammates.
- On the Starshinov front.

You also overrated Mikita's defensive play as well as you underrate the offense brought by second line. Gretzky played against guys better defensively than Mikita and they hardly had a chance. As well as you underrate Langway. The guy is a top-5 defensive defenseman ever. He turned a franchise around on his own basicly.

You also tend to forget that I am the one who has the home-ice advantage so I can line-match if I want to. You're always acting like I can't get the right guys on the ice.

On Baker : He never played in a professional league as simple as that. There are questionmarks concerning the 1910's when we rate the pro-leagues but the college in the US ? Hockey was hardly played in the USA during that time.

But if you think Baker is a capable player it is just hypocrisy to bash the Russians all the time. Starshinov did outscore Anatoli Firsov in the Soviet league, a legitimate firstliner in this draft. Balderis won a scoring title against Petrov,Mikhailov and company and Yakushev as we all know led his team in scoring at the Summit Series only trailing Esposito. So offensively they are clearly better than your second liners.

Yakushev - 5 times in the top-5 (1st once)
Starshinov - 9 times in the top-5 (1st twice)
Balderis - 7 times in the top-5 (1st twice)

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...light=yakushev

And this done in an era were most people consider the Soviet league at least as competetive enough to be compared.

Who then is the great offensive player on your bottom lines? Some put up nice numbers during the 80's and I even admit that I might have sold Damphousse a bit short but else?

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Old
11-28-2009, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jungosi View Post
On Baker : He never played in a professional league as simple as that. There are questionmarks concerning the 1910's when we rate the pro-leagues but the college in the US ? Hockey was hardly played in the USA during that time.
There was definitely some good hockey being played in the USA. But yeah, Baker was not really a part of it. We kinda have to go by how badly he dominated his lower levels and extrapolate that to a higher level of hockey. Which is why he's usually picked in the 500s-600s.

I'd like to read his biography. it might help with that problem.

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11-29-2009, 03:51 PM
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Betelgeuse wins the first round best-of-seven series 4-2.

Three stars:
1. Wayne Gretzky
2. Stan Mikita
3. Jari Kurri

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11-29-2009, 05:08 PM
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gg Jungosi

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