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11/25/09 What does the culture of the team has to change mean to you?

View Poll Results: When we read the culture of the team has to change, what does that mean to you
There is a rift between the players 2 2.82%
There is a rift between the players and coaches 2 2.82%
We have rookies, and vets, no in between 8 11.27%
No one wants to play in Edmonton (pick this and we aren't friends anymore) 2 2.82%
There is a lack of heart amongst the players 37 52.11%
other, tells us what you think is going on 20 28.17%
Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-25-2009, 09:14 AM
  #1
BlueBelle
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11/25/09 What does the culture of the team has to change mean to you?

Shutout a step in right direction for Deslauriers
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...131/story.html

Deslauriers never gave up hope
http://www.edmontonsun.com/sports/my...16536-sun.html

The Shawn of a new era
http://www.edmontonsun.com/sports/my...16531-sun.html

Wahl wants worlds
http://www.edmontonsun.com/sports/ho...16596-sun.html

Springfield Falcons to go with rookie in goal after Edmonton summons Devan Dubnyk
http://www.masslive.com/sports/index...o_go_with.html

Kings-Oilers Preview
http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/gamecen...oilers-preview

Kings coach gives Teddy Purcell his big chance
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-spw...3161944.column

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Old
11-25-2009, 09:25 AM
  #2
BlueBelle
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Mini-Oilers struggling to get the job done on defence
http://communities.canada.com/edmont...n-defence.aspx

Kings at Oilers, G25, 09-10
http://lowetide.blogspot.com/2009/11...g25-09-10.html

Last Chance Texaco?
http://lowetide.blogspot.com/2009/11...ce-texaco.html

A little Wednesday morning trivia
http://www.fromtherink.com/

nightly hockey hits and morning papers
http://illegalcurve.com/

Oilers vs. Coyotes Postgame: Wasn’t That Nice?
http://oilersnation.com/2009/11/24/o...asnt-that-nice

So it's a footie match, is it?
http://oilersnation.com/2009/11/24/s...ie-match-is-it

DD + JDD: Doppelgänger Dilemma
http://www.coppernblue.com/2009/11/2...ganger-dilemma

The Mediocrity of Speedy Forwards
http://www.coppernblue.com/2009/11/2...peedy-forwards

Puck Headlines: Hossa puts skate in mouth again; injury updates
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl,204690

Video: Phaneuf's little bro hits, enrages women's hockey star
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl,204678

The 10 best NHL players of the last decade
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl,204626

Long-rumored AHL outdoor 'classic' comes to Syracuse
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl,204743

around the league with kukla
http://www.kuklaskorner.com/

latest on the leafs and wings
http://www.spectorshockey.net/index....&id=5&Itemid=4

Miikka Kiprusoff Has No Interest In Being An Olympic Backup
http://my.thescore.com/hockeyordie/a...ic-backup.aspx

Recap: Montreal Vs. Columbus
http://my.thescore.com/hockeyordie/a...-columbus.aspx

Latendresse gives Wild's roster 'big' boost
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/...=lebrun_pierre

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Old
11-25-2009, 09:31 AM
  #3
Joe Hallenback
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I think when they talk about Culture change in Edmonton they need to stop living in the 80s and realize that you need a certain type of team to be competitive in the new NHL and as much as it loathes Edmontonians to admit it Calgary team building is much better than our team building

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Old
11-25-2009, 09:37 AM
  #4
VincenzosOil
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Quinn talked about culture change post Chicago game. How Chicago was a doormat for 8 yrs before they learned how to win. How even their star forwards are their best defensive players. How they get what it takes to win. Or something like that

So culture change to me means teaching these guys how to win and showing them what it takes. That we might not be the Hawks but we can certainly play to win everytime we step on the ice, like the Hawks.

Btw BB, thanks for all the work you do getting this thread together.

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Old
11-25-2009, 10:07 AM
  #5
Valic
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Essentially, the players need to remember they are not exclusively play makers, or checkers, or scorers. They need to learn they are hockey players. Hockey players make plays, check, and score. Sometimes all three on the same shift.

I'm sick and medicated and it's worded bad but I think people will know what I am getting at.

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Old
11-25-2009, 10:23 AM
  #6
LawnDemon
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Very interesting read that actually forced me to respect Brian Burke... Moreso Brendan Burke.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/column...ohn&id=4685761

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Old
11-25-2009, 10:29 AM
  #7
deanmoriarty
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They aren't mentally strong enough. This team is full of players who are accustomed to losing. They're terrified of making mistakes and lack resiliency - one bad play drains the collective confidence of this group. These players don't know what they are/aren't capable of.

The coaches either have to pull off a miracle and teach them how to win or the roster needs to be overhauled. Begin the change in culture by giving the C to Penner.

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Old
11-25-2009, 10:34 AM
  #8
BlueBelle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VincenzosOil View Post
Quinn talked about culture change post Chicago game. How Chicago was a doormat for 8 yrs before they learned how to win. How even their star forwards are their best defensive players. How they get what it takes to win. Or something like that

So culture change to me means teaching these guys how to win and showing them what it takes. That we might not be the Hawks but we can certainly play to win everytime we step on the ice, like the Hawks.

Btw BB, thanks for all the work you do getting this thread together.
Welcome!

I like your thoughts on the Chicago culture. To me they are truly a team that has rebuilt and they have some very lucky fans right about now.

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Old
11-25-2009, 10:38 AM
  #9
BlueBelle
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Report: Montreal businessman Stotland leads bid for Coyotes
http://www.canada.com/news/world/Mon...701/story.html

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Old
11-25-2009, 10:53 AM
  #10
hockeyaddict101
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This team hasn't learned to win and too easily accepts losing. That is what I think was meant.

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Old
11-25-2009, 10:55 AM
  #11
Stoneman89
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Never being satisfied., even when they win. It's such a small margin between winning and losing in this league and game to game, shift to shift, that any amount of contentment will set you back. I'll know the culture change is nearing completion when the leaders on this team start critiqueing some wins rather than patting themselves on the back after obtaining a point in a SO loss. This team team wins a couple in a row, and thinks they're on the way. Unbelievable for a group that hasn't been in the playoffs for 3 years, and always struggled to get there. Pat Quinn has said as much. For once, I'd like to see guys like Moreau say after a 4-0 game like the last one," We played well enough to win, but it's not totally acceptable. I'm not satisfied with our 3rd period, and we need to bury more chances. We have to get better." Those are things you hear Lidstrom and co. say. They win by 3, then ask, why not 5 or 6. It instills a confident, winning attitude while never looking back, fat and happy. Even after a cup win.

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Old
11-25-2009, 11:12 AM
  #12
eastcoasteh
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I wouldnt's say rift between vets and youth, but a disconnect. I also think it's a bit of combination of that and the lack of heart.

My guess about this team is it's not as close as teams of years gone by (thinking 2006). The older guys hang together or with their families and the young guys hang together as single guys would do in their situation. There's such an age gap and maturity gap there and it's preventing the team from truly gelling, and resentment slowly builds. Vets mad at youth cuz they are not paying the price and youth thinking the vets aren't as good as they think they are and are taking their icetime. We definitely seem to have two core groups, youth and veteran.

I have watched every minute this year, and personally, I think the vets have been the best players, save for a few. At the very least, they're the most consistent. It's on guys like Gilbert, Grebs, O'Sullivan, Cogs, Gags, Pouliot when he plays and others to bring it night in and night out. Go to the hard places, and sacrifice to do it.

I really think this team's youth is not as talented as we give them credit for. Guys like Gags, Cogs, O'Sullivan, Gilbert are all talented, but are not on the same level of youth on other teams which are thriving, like the guys in Chicago (Toews, Kane, Bolland, Keith, Seabrook), Philly (Carter, Richards, JVR) and other teams. I think we are expecting too much from them at this point. AT the very least, few of these young talents on the Oil have learnt what it takes to be successufl at this level on a consistent basis

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Old
11-25-2009, 11:23 AM
  #13
BlueBelle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoasteh View Post
I wouldnt's say rift between vets and youth, but a disconnect. I also think it's a bit of combination of that and the lack of heart.

My guess about this team is it's not as close as teams of years gone by (thinking 2006). The older guys hang together or with their families and the young guys hang together as single guys would do in their situation. There's such an age gap and maturity gap there and it's preventing the team from truly gelling, and resentment slowly builds. Vets mad at youth cuz they are not paying the price and youth thinking the vets aren't as good as they think they are and are taking their icetime. We definitely seem to have two core groups, youth and veteran.

I have watched every minute this year, and personally, I think the vets have been the best players, save for a few. At the very least, they're the most consistent. It's on guys like Gilbert, Grebs, O'Sullivan, Cogs, Gags, Pouliot when he plays and others to bring it night in and night out. Go to the hard places, and sacrifice to do it.

I really think this team's youth is not as talented as we give them credit for. Guys like Gags, Cogs, O'Sullivan, Gilbert are all talented, but are not on the same level of youth on other teams which are thriving, like the guys in Chicago (Toews, Kane, Bolland, Keith, Seabrook), Philly (Carter, Richards, JVR) and other teams. I think we are expecting too much from them at this point. AT the very least, few of these young talents on the Oil have learnt what it takes to be successufl at this level on a consistent basis

Hey thanks for the poll idea! Sorry I didn't quite get what you were trying to say yesterday down quite right. I only get so many characters to work with, and i was going from memory of what you said yesterday. It is certainly an interesting topic of discussion.

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Old
11-25-2009, 11:24 AM
  #14
hemskysuncle
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my perception is similar to "there is a lack of heart" but it does not cover it. I think there is a long standing attitude of arrogance among the "long-termers" that has grown over the years since the cup run. And I think that this has cause an idea of not needing to work hard to achieve. I think it is contagioius and grows throughout the team, and because of the large number of young players, who are impressionable, it has spread much quicker than it would normally.

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Old
11-25-2009, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnDemon View Post
Very interesting read that actually forced me to respect Brian Burke... Moreso Brendan Burke.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/column...ohn&id=4685761
that is the longest article i have ever seen! but very interesting

And may I add that I am not surprised at all at Kipprusoff's stance. He is not playing for country through pride...the country should bow at his feet if they think he will put any effort into furthering their cause.


Last edited by hemskysuncle: 11-25-2009 at 12:00 PM. Reason: added some stuff
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Old
11-25-2009, 11:45 AM
  #16
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I think its more of a lack of an identity. It the late 90s to our cup run, we were always a form of blue-collared hard working group of hockey places. That time has passed and Kevin Lowe tried to build a team built on speed and skill while keeping some players who play that blue-collar hockey.
Tambo then got a coach who preaches blue-collared hockey and you have some players who don't play that. Same thing happened to MacT. Bunch of players who play a different style than the way the coach wants to play. We need to find an identity and stick with it. Don't get me wrong though, you still need a balance of skill and grit, but right now we don't have enough of either. Although I'd be inclined to say we have more crusty players than non-crusty, they're just not very good. Not terrible, but no good. Mediocore.

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11-25-2009, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemskysuncle View Post
my perception is similar to "there is a lack of heart" but it does not cover it. I think there is a long standing attitude of arrogance among the "long-termers" that has grown over the years since the cup run. And I think that this has cause an idea of not needing to work hard to achieve. I think it is contagioius and grows throughout the team, and because of the large number of young players, who are impressionable, it has spread much quicker than it would normally.
When was the last time Horcoff or Moreau took a night off? I mean you can argue all you want about their abilities and decision making, but how many times can you point to a lack of effort with these guys?

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11-25-2009, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
I think when they talk about Culture change in Edmonton they need to stop living in the 80s and realize that you need a certain type of team to be competitive in the new NHL and as much as it loathes Edmontonians to admit it Calgary team building is much better than our team building
The first sign you know we need a new culture change is maining our 80's jersey - get over it people, we don't have Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier or etc...

Hard to wonder why we can't create a winning team when everyone's so busy looking back. Even our management fails at this.

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11-25-2009, 12:18 PM
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Losing has become acceptable.

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Old
11-25-2009, 12:35 PM
  #20
hemskysuncle
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
When was the last time Horcoff or Moreau took a night off? I mean you can argue all you want about their abilities and decision making, but how many times can you point to a lack of effort with these guys?
To be honest, Horcoff has never disappointed me with his effort. And Moreau is showing better this year than most. However, I have never liked either one of them in an interview. And my perception of all this is really coming from the attittude of the players. All of this is speculation, no matter what anyone answers...so i could be wrong...but it is what i think.

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11-25-2009, 01:07 PM
  #21
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I did a blog post recently on this subject, well sort of. More on corporate structure. It concerns me the way we are set up.

www.xtremehockey.wordpress.com

I think the prevailing factor is that our franchise has too much learn on the job rather than job training. We rush our talent to the bigs because we are on the low scale of high end talent. Since we can't sign skill, we rush it. Then they invariably make mistakes, lose confidence etc. We need to be willing to sign NHL veterans for our 4th line rather than have perpetual auditions for players going to the show. Pouliot, Jacques, Stone, Reddox, Brule, Schremp, yadda, yadda, all looking for jobs. When the Wings want a fourth liner, they sign Bertuzzi. When the Sharks want a fourth liner, they sign Malhotra. When the Flyers want a fourth liner, they sign Betts. There might be a trend there.

The other part is that our franchise strives for success, but the machine that has been built might make it down the track but doesn't have enough jam to win a drag race. We don't have the pieces to compete on the highest level, and we don't have the management that will take the time to rebuild because of the demands for competitiveness. Impenetrable force vs. Immovable Object = Perpetual Mediocrity.


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Old
11-25-2009, 01:32 PM
  #22
Stoneman89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocirapture View Post
The first sign you know we need a new culture change is maining our 80's jersey - get over it people, we don't have Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier or etc...

Hard to wonder why we can't create a winning team when everyone's so busy looking back. Even our management fails at this.

Absolutely nothing wrong with honouring your past, especially if it's been as fantastic as the Oilers were. The Habs did it for years, and ran out one successful team after another. Personally, I love the retro sweaters, and feel they have a nice connection as a reminder of a successful past. I really doubt they have anything to do with our mediocre play.

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Old
11-25-2009, 02:15 PM
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theranfordflop
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Originally Posted by slats432 View Post
I think the prevailing factor is that our franchise has too much learn on the job rather than job training. We rush our talent to the bigs because we are on the low scale of high end talent. Since we can't sign skill, we rush it. Then they invariably make mistakes, lose confidence etc. We need to be willing to sign NHL veterans for our 4th line rather than have perpetual auditions for players going to the show. Pouliot, Jacques, Stone, Reddox, Brule, Schremp, yadda, yadda, all looking for jobs. When the Wings want a fourth liner, they sign Bertuzzi. When the Sharks want a fourth liner, they sign Malhotra. When the Flyers want a fourth liner, they sign Betts. There might be a trend there.

The other part is that our franchise strives for success, but the machine that has been built might make it down the track but doesn't have enough jam to win a drag race. We don't have the pieces to compete on the highest level, and we don't have the management that will take the time to rebuild because of the demands for competitiveness. Impenetrable force vs. Immovable Object = Perpetual Mediocrity.
1. Detroit doesn't have Bertuzzi on their 4th line.

2. San Jose doesn't have Malhotra on their 4th line.

3. Blair Betts is doing an excellent job helping Philly to... 17th in the league. Also, I'm not sure why you're including Philly here among the best run franchises. They haven't won anything in years, and they were dead last in the league not too long ago.

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Old
11-25-2009, 02:23 PM
  #24
theranfordflop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemskysuncle View Post
my perception is similar to "there is a lack of heart" but it does not cover it. I think there is a long standing attitude of arrogance among the "long-termers" that has grown over the years since the cup run. And I think that this has cause an idea of not needing to work hard to achieve. I think it is contagioius and grows throughout the team, and because of the large number of young players, who are impressionable, it has spread much quicker than it would normally.
I think that you're probably right. While everybody was venting about venting, something Moreau said struck me odd. About player/coaches meetings: "We should do it more than we do. It's just that everyone is so busy and your schedule gets so hectic and sometimes you just don't want to do it, you don't have the energy for it, but in any successful organization, that happens."

I'm really not sure what these guys are so busy doing, but it should probably be secondary to... I dunno... Their jobs?

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11-25-2009, 02:24 PM
  #25
theranfordflop
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Absolutely nothing wrong with honouring your past, especially if it's been as fantastic as the Oilers were. The Habs did it for years, and ran out one successful team after another. Personally, I love the retro sweaters, and feel they have a nice connection as a reminder of a successful past. I really doubt they have anything to do with our mediocre play.
Ya I don't know if the jersey's are all that bad... But the cups in the dressing room.. That's just tacky and dumb.

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