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Drive for 5

View Poll Results: Drive for 5, or continue the trends?
Drive for a top 5 pick 50 75.76%
Continue with mediocrity with the odd glimpse of success 3 4.55%
Try to build a winner now, this is what the city needs 10 15.15%
other, explain 3 4.55%
Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-26-2009, 10:15 AM
  #1
Live Breathe Hockey
 
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Drive for 5

I still whole heartedly believe this team is still no where near competitive enough or strong enough to make it to the playoffs. They haven't been since 96/97 & 97/98 where they went back-to-back to the semi-finals. Since then its been nothing but 1st round exits or missed playoffs, and they're still a mediocre team.

I think its time they start to figure this thing out, especially in a cap world where youth is now the most valuable asset in trying to build a competitive team year in and year out.

Drive for a top 5 pick! Vote now!

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Old
11-26-2009, 10:22 AM
  #2
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Live Breathe Hockey View Post
I still whole heartedly believe this team is still no where near competitive enough or strong enough to make it to the playoffs. They haven't been since 96/97 & 97/98 where they went back-to-back to the semi-finals. Since then its been nothing but 1st round exits or missed playoffs, and they're still a mediocre team.

I think its time they start to figure this thing out, especially in a cap world where youth is now the most valuable asset in trying to build a competitive team year in and year out.

Drive for a top 5 pick! Vote now!
Um...in 96/97 and 97/98 they won one whole round and that's it. I liked that team, but they weren't good enough.

We also happened to have this thing happen in 05/06...you might remember that? We've made mistakes subsequent, but torpedoing the ship isn't the answer.

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Old
11-26-2009, 10:27 AM
  #3
oilersfan11
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This team needs to finish with a top 5 pick.Then hopefully win the Lottery so we can pick Taylor hall.

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Old
11-26-2009, 10:30 AM
  #4
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
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This team needs to finish with a top 5 pick.Then hopefully win the Lottery so we can pick Taylor hall.
And then what?

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Old
11-26-2009, 10:31 AM
  #5
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A rebuild is the only answer IMO. At best, the current roster is capable of scrapping its way into 8th spot. Its possible, but unlikely IMO. The team is too inconsistent, terrible on the road, and has too many holes to actually pull that off. And we arent just one player away from being a contender either (unless we somehow acquire AO). There are a bunch of holes that need to be addressed. After missing the playoffs for a fourth straight year, management had better realize that the current group isnt getting it done and they need to actually develop a plan for building this team and start doing it. Unfortunately, Im sure the Lowe and Tambo will again take the degenerate gamblers' approach to the offseason and let it all ride on signing or trading for a big name player that never materializes and we will be stuck with basically the same crap line up next year.

This is an interesting read for anyone that thinks a rebuild is the way to go:
http://www.hogshaven.com/2009/2/26/7...shares-his-ten

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Old
11-26-2009, 10:34 AM
  #6
oilersfan11
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Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1 View Post
And then what?

This team will have a franchise player that we can build around.This yrs oilers aren't going to make it to the playoffs.

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Old
11-26-2009, 10:34 AM
  #7
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There are alot of other things that this team can do before resorting to being perennial bottom dwellers for five seasons. Firstly, there are trades that can happen. There are also free agents that can be signed. The Oilers need to make better trades and sign impact players, not necessarily players with star power which costs more $$$. For example, how much better would this team be if we had kept Glencross, and Hejda? They wouldn't have cost that much to keep long term.

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Old
11-26-2009, 10:36 AM
  #8
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
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Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
This team will have a franchise player that we can build around.This yrs oilers aren't going to make it to the playoffs.
If it's that easy why don't teams trade 2-5 real NHLers for the first overall pick every year?

Also, what are we going to do in the meantime...sit around waiting?

You don't want to be a team that loops high and low in turns of performance. You want to build a long-term winner that players want to play for. That is the goal.

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Old
11-26-2009, 10:37 AM
  #9
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Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1 View Post
And then what?
fire sale and start from scratch.

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Old
11-26-2009, 10:37 AM
  #10
MinnesotaFats
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Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1 View Post
And then what?
Well, if you are the Oilers management team you start planning the Stanley Cup parade. If you are any other franchise you come to the realization that your team is terrible, you blow it up, and you start building around a future star in Hall.

This team lacks a plan - its completely directionless. Lowe is great at picking national teams (who couldnt be with the talent that Canada has?), but he has proved himself useless at developing a plan for a team and executing it. Every year is approached like we are going for it, not matter how much of a longshot it is. He is still chasing the dragon from the '06 Cup run.

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Old
11-26-2009, 10:39 AM
  #11
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This team lacks a plan - its completely directionless. Lowe is great at picking national teams (who couldnt be with the talent that Canada has?), but he has proved himself useless at developing a plan for a team and executing it. Every year is approached like we are going for it, not matter how much of a longshot it is. He is still chasing the dragon from the '06 Cup run.
I don't disagree that we've struggled, but we were a couple key summer moves (not Heatley) away from being a division contender quite easily. Those things can still work. Why management doesn't view this the same way, I'm not sure.

Our biggest issue this year is going to be that we're never going to be healthy.

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Old
11-26-2009, 10:42 AM
  #12
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Originally Posted by MinnesotaFats View Post
A rebuild is the only answer IMO. At best, the current roster is capable of scrapping its way into 8th spot. Its possible, but unlikely IMO. The team is too inconsistent, terrible on the road, and has too many holes to actually pull that off. And we arent just one player away from being a contender either (unless we somehow acquire AO). There are a bunch of holes that need to be addressed. After missing the playoffs for a fourth straight year, management had better realize that the current group isnt getting it done and they need to actually develop a plan for building this team and start doing it. Unfortunately, Im sure the Lowe and Tambo will again take the degenerate gamblers' approach to the offseason and let it all ride on signing or trading for a big name player that never materializes and we will be stuck with basically the same crap line up next year.

This is an interesting read for anyone that thinks a rebuild is the way to go:
http://www.hogshaven.com/2009/2/26/7...shares-his-ten
That's just an excellent find and, from the article, exactly why the Oilers are failing:

"8. Add veterans to the team via shorter term deals as free agents. Signing long-term, expensive deals for vets is very risky. We try to add vets to the mix for two year or three year deals. They fill in around our young core. They are very important for leadership, but they must complement the young core (NOT try to overtake them or be paid more than them). Identify and protect the core. Add veterans to complement them, not visa versa."

The Oiler's "core" includes Souray, Visnovsky, Horcoff, Staios, Moreau and Khabibulin and Tambellini was willing to trade Penner, Smid and Cogliano for another player who also wouldn't not fit in a 3-5 year rebuild.

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Old
11-26-2009, 10:42 AM
  #13
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Originally Posted by Belcriss View Post
There are alot of other things that this team can do before resorting to being perennial bottom dwellers for five seasons. Firstly, there are trades that can happen. There are also free agents that can be signed. The Oilers need to make better trades and sign impact players, not necessarily players with star power which costs more $$$. For example, how much better would this team be if we had kept Glencross, and Hejda? They wouldn't have cost that much to keep long term.
They would be better off, thats for sure. How much better would we be if we kept Pitkanen? Kept Stoll and Greene? A team with Pitkanen, Stoll, Greene, Glencross and Hejda is a playoff team for sure. Visnovksy is great, but give me those five players over Visnovsky and O'Sullivan anyday.

The pattern here is that Lowe is directionless. He is shortsighted and made moves with only the current year in mind. And based on what we saw this past summer, Tambo either suffers the same afflication or Lowe is still influencing the team's personnel decisions much more than some would like to think.

As long as Lowe is around, this team is going to be able to make the trades and signings required to build a competitive team. He has proven that he just isnt capable of it.

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Old
11-26-2009, 10:45 AM
  #14
Tad Mikowsky
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I don't like the notion of diving for a top five pick. I always thought as a team, that we were better than that.

Unfortunately, even my patience is starting to thin out. Hopefully they turn it around.

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Old
11-26-2009, 10:46 AM
  #15
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Do people really think that Quinn is the type of coach that would let his players mail it in for the rest of the season? Get a grip on reality here for a moment. The team is still very much in striking distance of the playoffs and if you want to cheer for a team that would do that go cheer for Chicago or the Islanders or the Lightning or the Penguins. I well stick with the Oilers and be proud we did not stoop to that level.

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11-26-2009, 10:48 AM
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Screw top 5... I want top 3

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11-26-2009, 10:50 AM
  #17
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Do people really think that Quinn is the type of coach that would let his players mail it in for the rest of the season? Get a grip on reality here for a moment. The team is still very much in striking distance of the playoffs and if you want to cheer for a team that would do that go cheer for Chicago or the Islanders or the Lightning or the Penguins. I well stick with the Oilers and be proud we did not stoop to that level.
agreed.

but i would counter that by saying that the oilers could very well end up in the bottom 5 of the league without "intentionally tanking" it.

take a look at the next 7 or 8 games and tell me how many of those you think the oilers can win - bottom 5 is very possible.

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Old
11-26-2009, 10:50 AM
  #18
Joe Hallenback
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I think people are being very foolish if they think diving for top 5 this year will solve all the Oilers problems

We are headed for a very slippery slope here. If the Oilers do decide to dive and trade away lets say

Vishnovsky
Souray
Staios
Moreau
Grebeskhov
Cogliano
Nillson

Those are the only playes I think the Oilers can deal or should deal though I am sure teams would want Hemsky and Penner right now

You could probably end up with around 4-5 extra draft picks this year and a few prospects from those trades

But the team you have next season is not going to be good either. We end up being a team that will probably miss the Playoffs again and there is the possibility 2 to 3 years after this year before you see any dividends

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Old
11-26-2009, 10:50 AM
  #19
MinnesotaFats
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That's just an excellent find and, from the article, exactly why the Oilers are failing:

"8. Add veterans to the team via shorter term deals as free agents. Signing long-term, expensive deals for vets is very risky. We try to add vets to the mix for two year or three year deals. They fill in around our young core. They are very important for leadership, but they must complement the young core (NOT try to overtake them or be paid more than them). Identify and protect the core. Add veterans to complement them, not visa versa."

The Oiler's "core" includes Souray, Visnovsky, Horcoff, Staios, Moreau and Khabibulin and Tambellini was willing to trade Penner, Smid and Cogliano for another player who also wouldn't not fit in a 3-5 year rebuild.
There is a lot on Leonis' list that I think is overly simplified - particularly because his team has the huge advantage of building around AO. Much of what he suggests is only possible because they have a player of the calibre to build around.

But it does raise a lot of problems with management's current approach. Based on the contracts we have, a team has been built that is supposed to be able to win now. We have missed the playoffs three years running and the moves that have been made have largely sacrificed the future (i.e. the Cole trade, the Visnovsky trade) or made marginal changes with the belief that this team is just a tweak away from making it back to the SCF. How many years do you have to fail before you realize that you're not that close?

What gets me is that we are probably going to do the same thing for another 2-3 years and the contracts on guys like Souray and Vis will expire without us having moved them for any assets that can help us build for the future.

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Old
11-26-2009, 10:50 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1 View Post
If it's that easy why don't teams trade 2-5 real NHLers for the first overall pick every year?

Also, what are we going to do in the meantime...sit around waiting?

You don't want to be a team that loops high and low in turns of performance. You want to build a long-term winner that players want to play for. That is the goal.
Yeah and you build a long-term winner around one elite player, the face of your franchise. By all accounts Hall will be that kind of player. Look at the flames, where would they be without Iginla? Take him out and their group of forwards is a whole lot weaker.

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Old
11-26-2009, 10:52 AM
  #21
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
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Yeah and you build a long-term winner around one elite player, the face of your franchise. By all accounts Hall will be that kind of player. Look at the flames, where would they be without Iginla? Take him out and their group of forwards is a whole lot weaker.
They'd sign 7 million dollars worth of player and be pretty good.

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11-26-2009, 10:53 AM
  #22
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agreed.

but i would counter that by saying that the oilers could very well end up in the bottom 5 of the league without "intentionally tanking" it.

take a look at the next 7 or 8 games and tell me how many of those you think the oilers can win - bottom 5 is very possible.
Unfortunately I dont think this team will have to intentionally tank in order to be in a lotto position at the end of the year. I dont for a second believe that Quinn or anyone above him will advocate doing so. But our team is what it is.

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Old
11-26-2009, 10:55 AM
  #23
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With our track record at the Draft, unless we get a top 3 no-brainer pick, we are rolling the dice no matter where we pick.

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11-26-2009, 10:56 AM
  #24
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im getting sick of the the semi-dives every year.. I want us to retool and go in the win now mode for a change.. Our first rounder holds very good value right now.. I would be willing to package him up for a dominant player in his prime.

2010 1st, 2010 2nd, Gagner, Cogliano, Omark hold the highest value
Horcoff, Gilbert, Nilsson, Moreau, Pouliot hold the lowest

Package a good with a bad and get us more Quinn players.

For all the guys listed above we would just need 2 top 6 forwards and an elite shutdown Dman

Penner-xxxx-Hemsky
xxxxx-Comrie-O'Sullivan
Jacques-Brule-Stone
Reddox-Potulny-Stortini

Smid-Visnovsky
Souray-Staios
xxxx-Grebeshkov

edit: the above gives us ~20M of cap room aswell.. which could mean 3 super stars..

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Old
11-26-2009, 10:59 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowstorm View Post
I don't like the notion of diving for a top five pick. I always thought as a team, that we were better than that.

Unfortunately, even my patience is starting to thin out. Hopefully they turn it around.
Who says anything about diving, we're driving


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