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Drive for 5

View Poll Results: Drive for 5, or continue the trends?
Drive for a top 5 pick 50 75.76%
Continue with mediocrity with the odd glimpse of success 3 4.55%
Try to build a winner now, this is what the city needs 10 15.15%
other, explain 3 4.55%
Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-26-2009, 11:00 AM
  #26
MinnesotaFats
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Quote:
Originally Posted by semenko27 View Post
With our track record at the Draft, unless we get a top 3 no-brainer pick, we are rolling the dice no matter where we pick.
Poor scouting and drafting - just another problem with the team right now.

I hate saying this kind of stuff because being the Negative Nancy automatically means people will accuse you of not being a good fan. But its the opposite that is true - I love the Oilers which is exactly why I dont want to ignore these problems. I want a team that wins and its not alright to put on a happy face and hope for a better future while the current management team wanders in the wilderness without a map or a hot clue as to how to find north.

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11-26-2009, 11:03 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by MinnesotaFats View Post
There is a lot on Leonis' list that I think is overly simplified - particularly because his team has the huge advantage of building around AO. Much of what he suggests is only possible because they have a player of the calibre to build around.
I'd have more faith building on a player like Hall/Seguin, both highly touted as the next AO/P.Kane ish players, than our current "everything lives, dies, and revolves around Hemsky" mantra. As stated, by all accounts, those Hall/Seguin are of that calibre. And even if they're just P.Kane, I'm more than content with that then what we currently have....unless MPS becomes Forsberg v2

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11-26-2009, 11:06 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by MinnesotaFats View Post
Poor scouting and drafting - just another problem with the team right now.

I hate saying this kind of stuff because being the Negative Nancy automatically means people will accuse you of not being a good fan. But its the opposite that is true - I love the Oilers which is exactly why I dont want to ignore these problems. I want a team that wins and its not alright to put on a happy face and hope for a better future while the current management team wanders in the wilderness without a map or a hot clue as to how to find north.
Sugarcoating was the culture EIG built for this team.

I love the option "Try to build a winner now, this is what the city needs"...of course that's what this city [and pretty much any other city that hasn't won a Stanley Cup] needs but we have to do it realistically.

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11-26-2009, 11:07 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by frag2 View Post
I'd have more faith building on a player like Hall/Seguin, both highly touted as the next AO/P.Kane ish players, than our current "everything lives, dies, and revolves around Hemsky" mantra. As stated, by all accounts, those Hall/Seguin are of that calibre. And even if they're just P.Kane, I'm more than content with that then what we currently have....unless MPS becomes Forsberg v2
I agree. Im not sure how you build around Hemsky when the "elite" goal scorers you saddle him with are POS, Horcoff and Penner (excluding Penner's last 23 games).

I give Lowe/Tambo credit for trying to get Heater to play with Hemsky, but the lack of a plan B was glaring.

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11-26-2009, 11:07 AM
  #30
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I'm all for this, I'm sick of finishing 8th to 12th in the conference and never improving. I want to get the 1st or 2nd overall pick in the draf and drat Tyler Seguin.
and have a fourth line next year of

MPS Seguin Eberle

let them grow together.

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11-26-2009, 11:08 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by sync View Post
agreed.

but i would counter that by saying that the oilers could very well end up in the bottom 5 of the league without "intentionally tanking" it.

take a look at the next 7 or 8 games and tell me how many of those you think the oilers can win - bottom 5 is very possible.
If were a bottom five team then so be it. I just do not think that is the case. I think were a team that has had more then its fair share of injury and illness early on this season and it seems like there is no reprieve in sight right now. The line between winning and losing is very thin in the NHL and we our on the wrong side of it right now.

If this team was somewhat healthy there is no way there record is what it is. You can worry about the next 8 games but its the 55 that really matter. The bad luck can not last the whole season can it. (knock on wood).

Not trying to make excuses but holy fack its getting kind of stupid on the injury front. Even half the guys that are back our playing hurt or sick for the love of god.

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11-26-2009, 11:10 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinnesotaFats View Post
Poor scouting and drafting - just another problem with the team right now.
I hate saying this kind of stuff because being the Negative Nancy automatically means people will accuse you of not being a good fan. But its the opposite that is true - I love the Oilers which is exactly why I dont want to ignore these problems. I want a team that wins and its not alright to put on a happy face and hope for a better future while the current management team wanders in the wilderness without a map or a hot clue as to how to find north.
I dont think this applies to us anymore... last year we had a very good draft with 'supposedly' good picks even in the later rounds.. in 2008 Eberle, in 2007 Nash, Omark and in 2006 Jeff Petry, Peckham .. None of the above were top 15 picks who just fell to us... Scouting got us these guys..

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Old
11-26-2009, 11:11 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by MinnesotaFats View Post
I agree. Im not sure how you build around Hemsky when the "elite" goal scorers you saddle him with are POS, Horcoff and Penner (excluding Penner's last 23 games).

I give Lowe/Tambo credit for trying to get Heater to play with Hemsky, but the lack of a plan B was glaring.
Were you willing to give up to first round picks + for Kessel? Cause that was plan B.

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11-26-2009, 11:13 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinnesotaFats View Post
Poor scouting and drafting - just another problem with the team right now.

I hate saying this kind of stuff because being the Negative Nancy automatically means people will accuse you of not being a good fan. But its the opposite that is true - I love the Oilers which is exactly why I dont want to ignore these problems. I want a team that wins and its not alright to put on a happy face and hope for a better future while the current management team wanders in the wilderness without a map or a hot clue as to how to find north.
I am interested in hearing what your idea of what poor scouting and drafting is

I have a different view of the Oiler's issues

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Old
11-26-2009, 11:14 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by surshot View Post

If this team was somewhat healthy there is no way there record is what it is. You can worry about the next 8 games but its the 55 that really matter. The bad luck can not last the whole season can it. (knock on wood).

Not trying to make excuses but holy fack its getting kind of stupid on the injury front. Even half the guys that are back our playing hurt or sick for the love of god.
Im sure we would have a couple more wins. But the team has a lot of holes even when everyone is healthy. Terrible at faceoffs, lacking size, endless turnovers, ineffective forechecking, no ability to score big goals and put teams away, too many guys underachieving (Horc, Gilbert, Grebs, Gags, Cogs, POS - yes, Im talking about you). These arent addressed even when the injuries/illnesses go away.

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11-26-2009, 11:14 AM
  #36
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How many people here have actually seen Seguin play?

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Old
11-26-2009, 11:17 AM
  #37
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Although it has happened in the past, I don't believe any team today will conciously try and lose games to gain possible draft picks, and I don't believe this is this teams intention by far. Who goes out and hires TWO of the best coaches available and tells them to lose? I don't think so. This "Dive for 5" is stupid, and this thread is stupid.


I alos realize that a teams management can decide just to not improve this year, or even shed salary, but a decision to tank is something that would require a team-wide conspiracy. This can not happen. We would know. Therefore, again, stupid thread.


Last edited by Oilerz: 11-26-2009 at 11:37 AM.
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Old
11-26-2009, 11:21 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
How many people here have actually seen Seguin play?
I watched him the OHL vs Russia game monday. He didn't score but he looked dangerious when ever he was out, reminded me a lot of Eric Staal even though the Anouncers kept saying he reminded them of Stamkos.

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11-26-2009, 11:21 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by PenzOil View Post
I dont think this applies to us anymore... last year we had a very good draft with 'supposedly' good picks even in the later rounds.. in 2008 Eberle, in 2007 Nash, Omark and in 2006 Jeff Petry, Peckham .. None of the above were top 15 picks who just fell to us... Scouting got us these guys..
Nash, Omark and Petry havent proven a damn thing yet. To count them as good draft picks is jumping the gun. Its too early to call Eberle a success yet too - I draw your attention to Exhibit A) Rob Schremp.

The past draft is a head scratcher. Picks 2-5 are just...I dont even know. I want to call them bad, but I will wait a few years before making a final judgement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
I am interested in hearing what your idea of what poor scouting and drafting is

I have a different view of the Oiler's issues
There have been some good picks for sure. But there have been a lot of first round blunders too. Im not sure its more than other teams, but we certainly have found any late-first round or later-round gems either. No Getzlafs, Richards, Bergerons, etc.

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11-26-2009, 11:28 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinnesotaFats View Post
I agree. Im not sure how you build around Hemsky when the "elite" goal scorers you saddle him with are POS, Horcoff and Penner (excluding Penner's last 23 games).

I give Lowe/Tambo credit for trying to get Heater to play with Hemsky, but the lack of a plan B was glaring.
The thing is that when you "build around" Hemsky, Hemsky should make other players better, not make him better. Whats the point of building around an inferior, incomplete player that is only better when you get better players for him

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Old
11-26-2009, 11:30 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by MinnesotaFats View Post
Im sure we would have a couple more wins. But the team has a lot of holes even when everyone is healthy. Terrible at faceoffs, lacking size, endless turnovers, ineffective forechecking, no ability to score big goals and put teams away, too many guys underachieving (Horc, Gilbert, Grebs, Gags, Cogs, POS - yes, Im talking about you). These arent addressed even when the injuries/illnesses go away.
Couple more wins? Come on Even San Jose would look like crap if they lost as many man games as we have. Its not an excuse its a fact.

Horcoff, Hemsky, Gagner, Jauqces, Gags, Reddox, Souray, Staois, Gilbert are all playing but are playing hurt right now ( Hemsky is probably out ). Thats huge, nevermind the other 8 guys that are hurt and not playing. Never mind the flu. You have not even seen the team to say they have holes or no holes for long enough.

Couple more wins are you joking?

Not sayin they would be leading the NHL but they would have more then a couple wins. FYI a couple wins gets pretty close to 8th spot if i am not mistaken as well so think about that.

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11-26-2009, 11:31 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by surshot View Post
If were a bottom five team then so be it. I just do not think that is the case. I think were a team that has had more then its fair share of injury and illness early on this season and it seems like there is no reprieve in sight right now. The line between winning and losing is very thin in the NHL and we our on the wrong side of it right now.

If this team was somewhat healthy there is no way there record is what it is. You can worry about the next 8 games but its the 55 that really matter. The bad luck can not last the whole season can it. (knock on wood).

Not trying to make excuses but holy fack its getting kind of stupid on the injury front. Even half the guys that are back our playing hurt or sick for the love of god.
I like to think it's this but honestly, injuries should force our players to elevate their game to mitigate the lost player. There's no excuses now. With or without those lost bodies, the team consistently plays the same fricking way.

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11-26-2009, 11:33 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
How many people here have actually seen Seguin play?
He could be the next Daigle or Berrard or Stefan or dare i say it Bonsignore or Kelly. Dive for five is far far far from a sure thing.

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11-26-2009, 11:33 AM
  #44
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This team will never tank. They just need to be awful.

Also, it is dive, not drive.

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11-26-2009, 11:36 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by frag2 View Post
The thing is that when you "build around" Hemsky, Hemsky should make other players better, not make him better. Whats the point of building around an inferior, incomplete player that is only better when you get better players for him
I don't think we have the right players to compliment Hemsky. I certainly wouldnt call Hemsky inferior or incomplete. I just dont think that the team has the right type of player to play with Hemsky - Heater probably could have been that guy. Look at Spezza - no Heater and he is on pace for his lowest output (52 points) since his rookie season where he only played like 30 games. Now Thornton has Heater and is on pace for the third best season of his career.

Im not saying Hemsky is as good as Spezza or Thornton, but they are all similar in that they are set-up mean. They will always put up bigger numbers when they are playing with a snipe that can consistenly pot +35 goals.

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11-26-2009, 11:37 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Oilerz View Post
Although it has happened in the past, I don't believe any team today will conciously try and lose games to gain possible draft picks, and I don't believe this is this teams intention by far. Who goes out and hires TWO of the best coaches available and tells them to lose? I don't think so. This "Dive for 5" is stupid, and this thread is stupid.
I dunno. If we fire sale and keep our "core", management would definitely be saying something to both the coaches and the players of their intentions implicitly

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11-26-2009, 11:42 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by surshot View Post
Couple more wins? Come on Even San Jose would look like crap if they lost as many man games as we have. Its not an excuse its a fact.

Horcoff, Hemsky, Gagner, Jauqces, Gags, Reddox, Souray, Staois, Gilbert are all playing but are playing hurt right now ( Hemsky is probably out ). Thats huge, nevermind the other 8 guys that are hurt and not playing. Never mind the flu. You have not even seen the team to say they have holes or no holes for long enough.

Couple more wins are you joking?

Not sayin they would be leading the NHL but they would have more then a couple wins. FYI a couple wins gets pretty close to 8th spot if i am not mistaken as well so think about that.
Even if this team is healthy, there are a lot of holes. Every team has injuries and players playing hurt - good teams win regardless. Also, the injuries have no impact on the effort that healthy players give and that effort has been lacking and inconsistent far too many nights. Injuries are a convenient excuse for this team right now. THey are a factor for sure, but the issues are deeper than that.

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11-26-2009, 11:45 AM
  #48
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I watched him the OHL vs Russia game monday. He didn't score but he looked dangerious when ever he was out, reminded me a lot of Eric Staal even though the Anouncers kept saying he reminded them of Stamkos.
Staal, Stamkos, I'd be content if it was either. The biggest thing about these players: when the team is down, you can consistently expect them to put the team on their back and do something. There is no one on this team that we have that can do that.

Gagner-well he tries but physically, can't do it due to stature.
Hemsky- when he feels like it...usually only against CBJ and PHX
Penner-did we expect him to be a player of that calibre??
Souray-he's a D-Man

That is something that we've been missing for the last 5 years. Pronger was D-Man but he's another level above most D [and even forwards]

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11-26-2009, 11:46 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Discipline View Post
This team will never tank. They just need to be awful.

Also, it is dive, not drive.
I think we're trying to put a positive spin to it

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Old
11-26-2009, 11:50 AM
  #50
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I like to think it's this but honestly, injuries should force our players to elevate their game to mitigate the lost player. There's no excuses now. With or without those lost bodies, the team consistently plays the same fricking way.
Its not like its one or two players its a crap load. There is not one team in the NHL that could withstand what the Oil had to go threw in the last 20 games or so. And how are players going to elevate there games if they are playing with bad shoulders, Heads, Backs and flu. This is not normal circumstances for a team somebody pissed off the Hockey gods in Oil country because they are playing against a stacked deck.

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