HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Notices

Drive for 5

View Poll Results: Drive for 5, or continue the trends?
Drive for a top 5 pick 50 75.76%
Continue with mediocrity with the odd glimpse of success 3 4.55%
Try to build a winner now, this is what the city needs 10 15.15%
other, explain 3 4.55%
Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-26-2009, 02:50 PM
  #101
Live Breathe Hockey
 
Live Breathe Hockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,339
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belcriss View Post
There are alot of other things that this team can do before resorting to being perennial bottom dwellers for five seasons. Firstly, there are trades that can happen. There are also free agents that can be signed. The Oilers need to make better trades and sign impact players, not necessarily players with star power which costs more $$$. For example, how much better would this team be if we had kept Glencross, and Hejda? They wouldn't have cost that much to keep long term.
This is what we've been doing for the last 2 decades it feels like, and what has it done for us? nothing

Quote:
Originally Posted by surshot View Post
Do people really think that Quinn is the type of coach that would let his players mail it in for the rest of the season? Get a grip on reality here for a moment. The team is still very much in striking distance of the playoffs and if you want to cheer for a team that would do that go cheer for Chicago or the Islanders or the Lightning or the Penguins. I well stick with the Oilers and be proud we did not stoop to that level.
I don't think Quinn would ever let his team mail it in, I do however think that Tambellini can ice a team full of youth and prospects with a couple tough guys for protection, and solid veteran leaders to develop a culture and work ethic into a young core of key players.
In that time you will tank unintentionally as the youth learns from a great coaching tandem in Quinn/Renney as well as the limited veteran players and instill a winning culture, work ethic, and develop a team identity.
We then will probably get even better players via (hopefully) top 5 picks through not icing a solid team for a few years (see CHI/PIT/WSH/LAK) where they can learn from the key youth what the old vets have past down to them and then with a much shorter age gap you have a dynamo team that owns for at least a decade...

See the Red Wings... ie, Yzerman, Shanahan, Hull, Robitaille etc which passed on to the Lidstroms, Datsyuks, Zetterbergs, etc as one example. see the LAK as a great example currently with the Kopitars, Browns, Doughtys, Schenns coming up, Frolovs, etc.. tanking for awhile and now surrounding with more veteran youth a la Greene, Stoll, Scuderi, and adding a few strong leaders, Smyth, Williams, Handzus (and don't think handzus isn't because he certainly is a key player to that team)

Live Breathe Hockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-26-2009, 05:03 PM
  #102
Blatherblah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: New York
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,496
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinnesotaFats View Post
There is a lot on Leonis' list that I think is overly simplified - particularly because his team has the huge advantage of building around AO. Much of what he suggests is only possible because they have a player of the calibre to build around.

But it does raise a lot of problems with management's current approach. Based on the contracts we have, a team has been built that is supposed to be able to win now. We have missed the playoffs three years running and the moves that have been made have largely sacrificed the future (i.e. the Cole trade, the Visnovsky trade) or made marginal changes with the belief that this team is just a tweak away from making it back to the SCF. How many years do you have to fail before you realize that you're not that close?

What gets me is that we are probably going to do the same thing for another 2-3 years and the contracts on guys like Souray and Vis will expire without us having moved them for any assets that can help us build for the future.
Not to mention Khabby for 4 years rather than Rollie for 2 years. This team has some good parts, but not enough to contend for the Cup. Mgmt's had more than enough time to assess the situation - injuries are a factor, but I think we all have a sense of what this team is capable of - probably 7-8th seed at best, and unlikely to be able to go deep into the playoffs.

I doubt Tambellini will be bold though. If he were, he should try (if possible) to dump less effective veterans and passengers. It's important however to have a good group of veterans - I recall this year's HOFers all saying how big a role the vets on the team had on their development and I don't think it's just lip service. What we are really missing is a quality veteran forward, like a Doug Weight.

I think our core should be Hemsky, Gagner, Penner, Visnovsky and Smid. Everyone else I think can be traded (but I think we should be cautious with moving Cogs), though I think we're stuck with Horcoff, for better or worse. Maybe keep Cogs if we can keep him away from Moreau. I get flashes of Moreau when I see Cogs streaking down the wing only to cough it up. I'm in favour of keeping Visnovsky because we need a quality veteran D and he's the best we're likely to have in the foreseeable future. Souray's nice, but injury problems are piling up. Hopefuly he's moveable.

Blatherblah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-26-2009, 05:06 PM
  #103
Soundwave
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 24,185
vCash: 500
I would say Brule is also part of the core if he signs for a reasonable deal.

Hemsky Penner
1 of Visnovsky or Souray (probably Vish)
Gagner
1 of Brule or Cogs
Smid
1 of Gilbert Grebs

Is probably the core. Horcoff + Khabby are not likely going anywhere so they're here by default though both are useful.

I like JFJ's play and size too, if he can stay healthy, he'll probably be a good cheap big to keep around.

I don't think it's a veteran problem. It's a "not having Stamkos/Tavares/Kane/Toews" problem.

Patrick Sharp is the type of guy the Oilers need. I can see him fitting in very well here, maybe even being the captain. If he's available due to Chicago's cap crunch (won't be moved until the summer though) that's a player I would certainly target.


Last edited by Soundwave: 11-26-2009 at 05:12 PM.
Soundwave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-26-2009, 05:56 PM
  #104
MinnesotaFats
Registered User
 
MinnesotaFats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,942
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
I would say Brule is also part of the core if he signs for a reasonable deal.

Hemsky Penner
1 of Visnovsky or Souray (probably Vish)
Gagner
1 of Brule or Cogs
Smid
1 of Gilbert Grebs

Is probably the core. Horcoff + Khabby are not likely going anywhere so they're here by default though both are useful.

I like JFJ's play and size too, if he can stay healthy, he'll probably be a good cheap big to keep around.

I don't think it's a veteran problem. It's a "not having Stamkos/Tavares/Kane/Toews" problem.

Patrick Sharp is the type of guy the Oilers need. I can see him fitting in very well here, maybe even being the captain. If he's available due to Chicago's cap crunch (won't be moved until the summer though) that's a player I would certainly target.
Sharp would be a good fit for sure. Im not sure how much cap room Chicago has to move. Id love to add a guy like Ladd too

MinnesotaFats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2009, 01:53 AM
  #105
Ty Webb*
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 858
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Show me one successful franchise that has built itself from not having a superstar to being a perrenial good, young team without benefit of a top 5 pick or big UFA signings (which don't happen in Edmonton).

The younger teams doing well this year ...

Columbus - Nash (3rd overall)
Pittsburgh - Crosby (1st overall) + Malkin (3rd overall) + Staal (2nd overall) + Fleury (1st overall)
L.A. Kings - Doughty (2nd overall) + 7 more years of top 15-ish picks (they drafted well prior)
Washington - Ovechekin (1st overall), Backstrom (4th overall)
Colorado - Duchene (3rd overall)
Philly - Van Riemsdyk (2nd overall)
Chicago - Kane (1st overall) Toews (3rd overall) Keith (3rd overall)
Atlanta - Kovalchuk (1st overall), Bogosian (3rd overall), Kane (4th overall)

You're seeing Tampa (Stamkos, Hedman) and the Islanders (Tavares) also starting to get out of "tank mode" and actually starting to win some games again, which is a very quick turn around.

Detroit is the only one that's really been able to do it, and that isn't a situation you can repeat unless you draft and develop like they do. The whole "we want to be like Detroit" thing doesn't work for Edmonton (see: "hey we're going to be a puck possession skill team ... like Detroit" ... yeah, sure, lol, might as well be the 80s Oilers while we're at it).
Not to nitpick, but Philly was pretty good last year and the year before that without JVR in the lineup, and despite his solid production, he's still not an impact player on that team. Duchene after a nice start has been atrocious of late, these are not lynchpin guys. Obviously the situation in Philly is different as they have an easier time bringing in UFA's (and keeping Pronger for more than a season?) but they didn't need a top 5 pick to build a good team, they simply did well with picks such as Richards and Carter well outside of the top 5 and made good decisions in free agency and trades. While top picks are becoming more and more of a sure thing (relatively few busts in comparison to previous decades) over time, the notion you can't build a good club without 'tanking' is foolhardy.

As for Colorado, imo they still stink and are just off to a great start. Time will tell I suppose.

Ty Webb* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2009, 01:55 AM
  #106
Soundwave
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 24,185
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ty Webb View Post
Not to nitpick, but Philly was pretty good last year and the year before that without JVR in the lineup, and despite his solid production, he's still not an impact player on that team. Duchene after a nice start has been atrocious of late, these are not lynchpin guys. Obviously the situation in Philly is different as they have an easier time bringing in UFA's (and keeping Pronger for more than a season?) but they didn't need a top 5 pick to build a good team, they simply did well with picks such as Richards and Carter well outside of the top 5 and made good decisions in free agency and trades. While top picks are becoming more and more of a sure thing (relatively few busts in comparison to previous decades) over time, the notion you can't build a good club without 'tanking' is foolhardy.

As for Colorado, imo they still stink and are just off to a great start. Time will tell I suppose.
Philly didn't make good decisions with UFAs ... they have options that a team like Edmonton will never have when it comes to free agency.

Free agency isn't a serious option for us. Hell, trading isn't even a great option for us because most impact, star players have an NTC. Even if they didn't I suppose they could play the "I don't want to play there" card.

They also had Pitkanen (no.4 overall) which they turned into Lupul and now parlayed into Pronger.


Last edited by Soundwave: 11-27-2009 at 02:03 AM.
Soundwave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2009, 02:05 AM
  #107
Ty Webb*
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 858
vCash: 500
I agree my friend, that's why in included :
Obviously the situation in Philly is different as they have an easier time bringing in UFA's

I didn't write the post to be argumentative, just felt those 2 examples were a bit misleading, or at least the Philly one, as I don't think Colorado has really made too much progress despite their impressive performance so far.

Ty Webb* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2009, 02:06 AM
  #108
hfboardsuser
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,282
vCash: 500
First overall picks are simply performers out of the gate now. The development process has advanced to the point that these kids have NHL-quality fitness and skills by the time they're 18, and all they really need is a mental adjustment (if that).

2009, John Tavares- Leads Isles in scoring
2008, Steve Stamkos- Leads Lightning in scoring
2007, Patrick Kane- Leads Hawks in scoring
2006, Erik Johnson- Leads Blues in scoring (amazingly)
2005, Sidney Crosby- Leads Pens in scoring
2004, Alex Ovechkin- Leads Caps in scoring
2003, Eric Staal (1st forward taken)- Doesn't lead Canes (this year)
2002, Rick Nash- Leads Jackets in scoring
2001, Ilya Kovalchuk- Injured, but we know him
2000, Dany Heatley (1st forward taken)- Star player
1999, Patrik Stefan- Bust

So that's one bust in eleven years. It's either this or hire the next Hakan Andersson, folks.

hfboardsuser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2009, 02:11 AM
  #109
Ty Webb*
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 858
vCash: 500
Holy crap.

Ty Webb* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2009, 06:13 AM
  #110
MinnesotaFats
Registered User
 
MinnesotaFats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,942
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
First overall picks are simply performers out of the gate now. The development process has advanced to the point that these kids have NHL-quality fitness and skills by the time they're 18, and all they really need is a mental adjustment (if that).

2009, John Tavares- Leads Isles in scoring
2008, Steve Stamkos- Leads Lightning in scoring
2007, Patrick Kane- Leads Hawks in scoring
2006, Erik Johnson- Leads Blues in scoring (amazingly)
2005, Sidney Crosby- Leads Pens in scoring
2004, Alex Ovechkin- Leads Caps in scoring
2003, Eric Staal (1st forward taken)- Doesn't lead Canes (this year)
2002, Rick Nash- Leads Jackets in scoring
2001, Ilya Kovalchuk- Injured, but we know him
2000, Dany Heatley (1st forward taken)- Star player
1999, Patrik Stefan- Bust

So that's one bust in eleven years. It's either this or hire the next Hakan Andersson, folks.
Im all for trying to get the first overall this year. Both Hall and Seguin look like the real deal. Hall seems to be the more pure goal scorer and would be my pick.

Here is the question though. If we are a lotto team but end up with the 4th or 5th overall pick, would you package Gagner with the pick to move up to 1st or 2nd? That is likely what it would take. I would do it.

MinnesotaFats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2009, 07:17 AM
  #111
Tyrolean
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Country: Austria
Posts: 6,185
vCash: 500
With typical Oilers luck they may be the 1st team to break the streak of getting an impact player in the 1st round. They got to finish bottom five for 2 or 3 years to have a shot at rebuilding a contender.

Tyrolean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2009, 07:43 AM
  #112
Rooooooooooxxxanne*
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,899
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrolean View Post
With typical Oilers luck they may be the 1st team to break the streak of getting an impact player in the 1st round. They got to finish bottom five for 2 or 3 years to have a shot at rebuilding a contender.
With MPS and Eberle already in the system, if the Oilers can land a top 5 pick, this would be the right step for the future.

I really like this Seguin kid, definitely going top 5.

Rooooooooooxxxanne* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2009, 08:52 AM
  #113
Belcriss
Its summer
 
Belcriss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ont.
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,644
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to Belcriss
Quote:
Originally Posted by Live Breathe Hockey View Post
This is what we've been doing for the last 2 decades it feels like, and what has it done for us? nothing
I don't agree. The Oilers over the last two decades have been mostly sellers, not buyers. Used to be our mantra that we would let our best players go before they got to expensive. Now, they sign our veterans for more money than most are worth. Add to that, they keep marginal player veterans that could be occupied by younger players. Its been mismanagement that has put the Oilers in the last three seasons out of the playoffs. There are players out there that could help this team. For whatever reason, the Oilers are hesitant to go get them. Maybe they have trouble identifying them. Maybe the shakeup needs to start with the brain trust. The Oilers do have plenty of young players in the system that could be used as trade bait, also, they have core veteran players that would be coveted by other teams. My whole point is that the Oilers don't have to tank it for five years to change the core of this team. For whatever reason though, the last few seasons Oiler management feels the core is fine, even though they underacheive every season. Injuries, is becoming a very tired excuse.


Last edited by Belcriss: 11-27-2009 at 11:12 AM.
Belcriss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2009, 10:09 AM
  #114
Live Breathe Hockey
 
Live Breathe Hockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,339
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrolean View Post
With typical Oilers luck they may be the 1st team to break the streak of getting an impact player in the 1st round. They got to finish bottom five for 2 or 3 years to have a shot at rebuilding a contender.
as soon as we're finally going to admit we're going to have a rebuild, the #1 pick will be a Bargnani vs a Lebron, thats what will happen to the perrenial crappy oilers since the 80's

and the funny thing is, I know this team has been horrible since our last cup, and we've done nothing but complain about how crappy they are, but yet i still spend my gawd darn hard earned damned money to watch this crap...... i'd rather spend my hard earned money watching this team SUCK for a purpose of bringing in multiple top 5-10 picks for a couple years and watch some of these kids grow on the ice of Rexall to build this team to a real contender and watch REAL progress vs this piss ass attempt at bringing in grandpas and overpaid midgets that are as heartless as the lion to play on this damn team

i for one, am sick of the BS, I'd rather us go 0-82 for 2-3 years and get top picks, and i'd show up at every damn game still knowing that this team is only going to get better!

there is ZERO realistic plan on this team.... they HOPE to make the playoffs, they add BS pieces here and there (comrie, khabi) to think that THEY will make our team better! are they kidding us? are we dumb?

Lets Go Oilers! I'm getting tanked tonight to Boo the heck out of Heatley tonight!! Can't wait

Live Breathe Hockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2009, 01:51 PM
  #115
OmegaTheory
Registered User
 
OmegaTheory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Paper Street
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 3,709
vCash: 500
I just have this funny feeling that even if the Oilers were to get in the draft lottery they would somehow never get the first or even the 2nd pick, I just have the impression that because Edmonton is a strong market the NHL would feel no need to allow the fans a good player because the US teams need them more "to make the fanbases stronger" or some crap like that.

OmegaTheory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2009, 02:02 PM
  #116
Petro Points
Registered User
 
Petro Points's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 14,343
vCash: 885
I want to change my vote now... Im now all up for the dive...

Petro Points is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2009, 02:25 PM
  #117
nafrelio
Registered User
 
nafrelio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: brite feuchure
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,575
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PenzOil View Post
I want to change my vote now... Im now all up for the dive...
What? I'm curious about what changed your mind?


EDIT: just read the Hemsky injury thread...


Last edited by nafrelio: 11-27-2009 at 02:37 PM.
nafrelio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2009, 02:29 PM
  #118
nafrelio
Registered User
 
nafrelio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: brite feuchure
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,575
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaTheory View Post
I just have this funny feeling that even if the Oilers were to get in the draft lottery they would somehow never get the first or even the 2nd pick, I just have the impression that because Edmonton is a strong market the NHL would feel no need to allow the fans a good player because the US teams need them more "to make the fanbases stronger" or some crap like that.
Ahh, yes. The "NHL is against the Oilers" conspiracy theory. You know that the lottery is completely random, right?

I do hear you though about the Oilers poor luck in drafting and that it would be par for the course for us to pick up a stud prospect only to have him bustamaki.

nafrelio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2009, 03:31 PM
  #119
OmegaTheory
Registered User
 
OmegaTheory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Paper Street
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 3,709
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nafrelio View Post
Ahh, yes. The "NHL is against the Oilers" conspiracy theory. You know that the lottery is completely random, right?

I do hear you though about the Oilers poor luck in drafting and that it would be par for the course for us to pick up a stud prospect only to have him bustamaki.
Yeah I know, it's susposed to be random and I'm not going in for any crazy theories, to me it's not the "NHL is against the Oilers", it's just I'm pretty sure that Canadian teams are most likely of secondary importence to the NHL, all markets in Canada are pretty strong no matter how crappy the teams are.

But yeah I do agree, I'm almost of the mind that a player must be a bust simpley because the Oilers drafted him.

OmegaTheory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2009, 03:43 PM
  #120
Stoneman89
Registered User
 
Stoneman89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,957
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nafrelio View Post
Ahh, yes. The "NHL is against the Oilers" conspiracy theory. You know that the lottery is completely random, right?

I do hear you though about the Oilers poor luck in drafting and that it would be par for the course for us to pick up a stud prospect only to have him bustamaki.

The problem for the Oilers in the past, is that a lot of times, central scouting and every other team has ranked the "stud" available to be picked in the Oilers slotted turn, but the Oilers scouting staff and management bypass that by taking their own supposed "stud", thinking theiy're smarter than everyone else. Which is why we've gotten people like Steve Kelly instead of Shane Doan, and MP instead of Zack Parise, and Nitimaki instead of.....well, you get the picture. Bad luck is not taking someone that is consensus good or great, and going with your own choice. Bad luck is picking the supposed stud, and having him turn into crap.

Stoneman89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2009, 03:59 PM
  #121
Tedi
Registered User
 
Tedi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,722
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Live Breathe Hockey View Post
as soon as we're finally going to admit we're going to have a rebuild, the #1 pick will be a Bargnani vs a Lebron, thats what will happen to the perrenial crappy oilers since the 80's

and the funny thing is, I know this team has been horrible since our last cup, and we've done nothing but complain about how crappy they are, but yet i still spend my gawd darn hard earned damned money to watch this crap...... i'd rather spend my hard earned money watching this team SUCK for a purpose of bringing in multiple top 5-10 picks for a couple years and watch some of these kids grow on the ice of Rexall to build this team to a real contender and watch REAL progress vs this piss ass attempt at bringing in grandpas and overpaid midgets that are as heartless as the lion to play on this damn team

i for one, am sick of the BS, I'd rather us go 0-82 for 2-3 years and get top picks, and i'd show up at every damn game still knowing that this team is only going to get better!

there is ZERO realistic plan on this team.... they HOPE to make the playoffs, they add BS pieces here and there (comrie, khabi) to think that THEY will make our team better! are they kidding us? are we dumb?

Lets Go Oilers! I'm getting tanked tonight to Boo the heck out of Heatley tonight!! Can't wait
This is beyond ridiculous. I wish you'd save your money, move far away, and become a fan of soccer. There is a fine line between being a contender and being out of the playoffs entirely. It is against everything I believe in to give up and lose willingly. It is against the true nature of sport to do so. And the funny thing is, most of you that want to tank the season for young talent don't have the patience to wait for that talent to mature...ie. Gagner, Eberle, MPS, POS, Cogs, etc. etc. etc.


Last edited by Tedi: 11-27-2009 at 04:00 PM. Reason: typo
Tedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2009, 04:12 PM
  #122
Tedi
Registered User
 
Tedi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,722
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
The problem for the Oilers in the past, is that a lot of times, central scouting and every other team has ranked the "stud" available to be picked in the Oilers slotted turn, but the Oilers scouting staff and management bypass that by taking their own supposed "stud", thinking theiy're smarter than everyone else. Which is why we've gotten people like Steve Kelly instead of Shane Doan, and MP instead of Zack Parise, and Nitimaki instead of.....well, you get the picture. Bad luck is not taking someone that is consensus good or great, and going with your own choice. Bad luck is picking the supposed stud, and having him turn into crap.
So the Oilers are the only ones to pick outside of the box? And every team but the Oilers know which players are good...hmmm I disagree.

Tedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2009, 04:28 PM
  #123
nafrelio
Registered User
 
nafrelio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: brite feuchure
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,575
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedi View Post
This is beyond ridiculous. I wish you'd save your money, move far away, and become a fan of soccer. There is a fine line between being a contender and being out of the playoffs entirely. It is against everything I believe in to give up and lose willingly. It is against the true nature of sport to do so. And the funny thing is, most of you that want to tank the season for young talent don't have the patience to wait for that talent to mature...ie. Gagner, Eberle, MPS, POS, Cogs, etc. etc. etc.

It is also a fine line between tanking the season and barely missing the playoffs...again. Tanking does NOT mean that anybody is intentionally losing hockey games. Its partly just playing who you got, who are trying there hardest to win but likely won't because of their talent level or experience, shedding salaries, giving youth some experience so they will grow as players and picking the right TIME to go for the win.

I really hear your perspective - that not to try seems to go against your moral fabric. But to take your point of view to the extreme is to blow everything on one year - ie. trading all our top prospects, picks for proven UFA NHLers so we can go for one shot at the cup. One could argue with your logic that if management does not do this, they do not really care about winning, that they are not trying. But nobody does that - even cup contenders don't give up all of their best prospects for a one-time shot.

It is a matter of timing. For many in our culture of fast food, instant gratification, and living for the moment, there is no sense of TIME. Tanking the season is less about wanting to lose and more about finding discernment to pick the right time to win. Its about building a team that will be winners for many years to come.

The biggest problem with this team is that management has not had the discernment to find the timing. They have misjudged their talent and their readiness for consistently bettering their opponents and thus filled their cap space with players who are good, but who are playing with others who are either overrated or not ready to compete at the highest level. The "tankers" (like myself) on this board are not as far from your ideology as you think. Like you, we want to play to win. We are just saying that in order to win, we need better players. We are just saying that the timing isn't right. So if we are not going to compete in order to win it all, why not look at the best way (for EDM) to land top end talent? I'll take my chances at the draft.

nafrelio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2009, 04:39 PM
  #124
Tedi
Registered User
 
Tedi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,722
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by nafrelio View Post
It is also a fine line between tanking the season and barely missing the playoffs...again. Tanking does NOT mean that anybody is intentionally losing hockey games. Its partly just playing who you got, who are trying there hardest to win but likely won't because of their talent level or experience, shedding salaries, giving youth some experience so they will grow as players and picking the right TIME to go for the win.

I really hear your perspective - that not to try seems to go against your moral fabric. But to take your point of view to the extreme is to blow everything on one year - ie. trading all our top prospects, picks for proven UFA NHLers so we can go for one shot at the cup. One could argue with your logic that if management does not do this, they do not really care about winning, that they are not trying. But nobody does that - even cup contenders don't give up all of their best prospects for a one-time shot.

It is a matter of timing. For many in our culture of fast food, instant gratification, and living for the moment, there is no sense of TIME. Tanking the season is less about wanting to lose and more about finding discernment to pick the right time to win. Its about building a team that will be winners for many years to come.

The biggest problem with this team is that management has not had the discernment to find the timing. They have misjudged their talent and their readiness for consistently bettering their opponents and thus filled their cap space with players who are good, but who are playing with others who are either overrated or not ready to compete at the highest level. The "tankers" (like myself) on this board are not as far from your ideology as you think. Like you, we want to play to win. We are just saying that in order to win, we need better players. We are just saying that the timing isn't right. So if we are not going to compete in order to win it all, why not look at the best way (for EDM) to land top end talent? I'll take my chances at the draft.
Explain teams like Detroit and NJ then? And Chicago had to go through at least 2 youth movements before they figured anything out and now Tallon is on the outs because of the mess he made...although Chicago is a serious contender this year, is it worth it for one year? I'm not saying a youth movement wouldn't or couldn't work, IMO I would hate to see implemented here. I believe a good GM can build a franchise through the draft, free agency and trades, and have a somewhat competitive team every year.

Tedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2009, 04:39 PM
  #125
Live Breathe Hockey
 
Live Breathe Hockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,339
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedi View Post
This is beyond ridiculous. I wish you'd save your money, move far away, and become a fan of soccer. There is a fine line between being a contender and being out of the playoffs entirely. It is against everything I believe in to give up and lose willingly. It is against the true nature of sport to do so. And the funny thing is, most of you that want to tank the season for young talent don't have the patience to wait for that talent to mature...ie. Gagner, Eberle, MPS, POS, Cogs, etc. etc. etc.
so did WSH and PIT and CHI and LAK and BOS and now PHX and TBL and STL and NSH all ice bad teams intentionally? or did they just NOT spend wisely, iced a team of youth, see what youth rose to the top, kept that youth around as key guys and sucked long enough to draft studs (multiple studs) to turn their respective teams around and with the earlier cream of the crop that rose to the top they are now and soon to be extremely strong teams for many years to come!

not rocket science buddy

OR

did they over spend on crappy players, signed untimely UFA's, and consistently just missed the playoffs by mere points or bounced in the first round of the playoffs well continually sellling the dream that they are one piece away.... that one piece is a #1 overall pick, not 5# 14-23 year after year

Live Breathe Hockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:34 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.