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Latendresse traded to Wild for Benoit Pouliot, Part 3

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11-27-2009, 06:30 PM
  #151
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At the end of the day...you guys want to make excuses for him that's fine. But that's also why if he keeps making the same excuses for himself, he'll find himself having a career where he bounces around from team to team from line to line never fufilling his potential. He'll manage to score 20 goals a few times but he'll always leave his team wanting more. The day he realizes his accountability for his career and the direction he wants it to go into, is the day he'll become a better player.

In the meantime, he'll have to average more than 27 shots over 23 games to become the player you think he can be...but then again, instead, you can spend your time blaming the Wild coaching staff and their organization instead, completely absolving him of all responsibility

Please
It's not like the Canadiens, the current staff at least, have a great track record at developing players outside goaltenders

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11-27-2009, 06:34 PM
  #152
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It's not like the Canadiens, the current staff at least, have a great track record at developing players outside goaltenders


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11-27-2009, 06:36 PM
  #153
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11-27-2009, 06:39 PM
  #154
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whom everybody wanted out this summer
Everybody is a lot of people. That's quite a broad brush. The thing with pleky is that even if he's not scoring, he finds other ways to contribute.

I'm just having a little fun with your "blame everyone except latendresse" game.

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11-27-2009, 06:41 PM
  #155
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Yeah, Jacques Martin, Kirk Muller and Perry Pearn really screwed Ribeiro's devellopment.

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11-27-2009, 06:42 PM
  #156
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G. Latendresse 14:09 0 0 -1 0 0
he's arrived!

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11-27-2009, 06:42 PM
  #157
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It's not like the Canadiens, the current staff at least, have a great track record at developing players outside goaltenders
Martin? Boucher? Who are you talking about?

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11-27-2009, 06:43 PM
  #158
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11-27-2009, 06:43 PM
  #159
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and haters piled on him?
Well either way, at least you agree he should have spent more time practicing his skating.

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11-27-2009, 06:43 PM
  #160
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so are you suggesting that latendresse is the next ribeiro? Ribs already had a 65 point season with the habs, so we all knew he could put up points even before he got traded.


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11-27-2009, 06:43 PM
  #161
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well I can't stop bringing it up because that's what matters to me. What matters to me is not how you look it's what you do. Latendresse is asked to score goals and he did it well given the ressources he was given. There wasn't a whole lot more he could have done with what he was given. I understand you don't like that simple reasoning, but that's where I'm at.

I don't really know what there was he could do to have earned PP time. He produced given the ooportunities he had. To me that's how you earn your time on the power play. I'd be the happiest Canadiens fan if Latendresse was a workhorse off the ice but I don't know how that relates to power play time. I don't know how you perceive it. But to me power plays are where you need to skate the least and where your energy level is least demanded. What is required the most is anticipation of what your teammates will do in order to catch the other team quickly. Even though Latendresse is not a fast player, at least he can anticipate the play and score goals given small space to work with. He got it done at even strength, so I don't know how he couldn't get it done on the power play also. Now, I understand the Canadiens power play was among the best in the league 2 and 3 years ago, so there wasn't room for him. I fully understand that.





I disagree that he played weak competitions. Very few coaches match lines anymore. Coaches will do it when they face Ovechkin and other stars, but not against the Canadiens. Latendresse scored on good defensemen and got scored on against good players as well. I gave you a link where you could find who was on the ice when he got scored on and scored against. His goals came on Mark Stuart, Wideman, White, Phillips, Kaberle and so on.

Again, when he played with Koivu and Tanguay he did great, and on that same site you'll see that Koivu's and Tanguay's production actually increased when playing with Latendresse. The same goes for Lapierre, Kostopoulos, Markov and D'Agostini among others.

So I don't buy the argument that he can't keep up against better oppositions.






I have to put some accountability on the organization. How many times do we hear, we can't develop prospects for ****. Timmins is good at drafting, they do great in the AHL but can't play come in the NHL. Is it true only for others or is Latendresse included in the pack?

I'll repeat the same argument I bring up every time on the comparisons drawn by people for Latendresse. The players he is compared to never outscored him before the age of 25 albeit Ponikarovsky, Bertuzzi, Knuble, Holmstrom, Cleary and so on. Why does it take all these guys all this time to develop as a serious presence in front of the net? Sure it sounds easy, go to the net, you're bigger than everybody, shut up and do it. But looking back at all these guys I have to wonder why they were all labeled as lazy guys for most of their career. Maybe they're not that lazy and saying drive the net is likely easier than actually doing it. Sure some guys do it form an early age like Ovechkin, Nash and so on but they're supremely talented, which I don't think Latendresse is.

It's been that way since the dawn of time. People want Latendresse to play like Lambert, Tremblay, Knuble and so on but it takes time. That's all I can come up with really, disapointing, I'd like to see it happen more quickly but that's my answer.






Did you listen to the interview or did you only stop at the 2 or 3 lines that were written here? At first I thought he was given a smack by his agent when it's the exact opposite.

I advise you to listen to the interview if you haven't done so.

http://www.corussports.com/audioplayer.php?mp3=35271

What Ruel said was that Latendresse didn't improve on his strengths. Latendresse's strengths being 1 on 1 in the offensive zone, so winning battles, takeover the puck and flip it to a teammate. Other strength hitting, a min of 3 per game and drive the net. In the 1st 5 games he did well on the 1st 2 objectives but didn't drive the net for which he did only 25% of the time. In the second block of 5 games, he did much better at driving the net. They worked on these 3 elements of his game. From that point on they worked on the rest like staying in fron the of the net and whatnot.

Conclusion after 3 years, he still did the same he did in Drummondville. In Drummondville he had Brassard who could feed him the puck, so Guillaume could use one of his strengths, being shooting from the slot.

So Guillaume has 3 qualities and during his stay with the Canadiens they did not work on his strengths but only on his weakness, being defense. The Canadiens development process works by improving on players' weaknesses rather than strengthening their core of abilities. Also, in juniors, he played on the right wing. He was never given that chance in Montreal. Ruel doesn't know for what reason but the Canadiens chose to play him on the left and Guillaume had to re-adapt to play that side. Ruel says Latendresse isn't a highly skilled player so, had more problems learning that new position.
So true in regards to development path.. People don't realize how much better he got defensively and how that has affected his game.

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Old
11-27-2009, 06:45 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
Everybody is a lot of people. That's quite a broad brush. The thing with pleky is that even if he's not scoring, he finds other ways to contribute.

I'm just having a little fun with your "blame everyone except latendresse" game.
well some people at least, I don't have the exact figures

I love Plekanec, but I think it's fair to say they're different players and can't expect Latendresse to be like Plekanec

I never said not to blame Latendresse, I only try to bring counter arguments to the Latendresse is useless thing

and I too have fun, don't take this too seriously people

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Originally Posted by FleeingKostitsyn View Post
Yeah, Jacques Martin, Kirk Muller and Perry Pearn really screwed Ribeiro's devellopment.
from what I've heard of Gainey and Latendresse, I think the Canadiens thought about shopping Latendresse for a few months now

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so are you suggesting that latendresse is the next ribeiro? Ribs already had a 65 point season with the habs, so we all knew he could put up points even before he got traded.

no, just giving an example of a player who fulfilled by going away and of who people said was trash, terrible attitude and whatnot


Last edited by Mathletic: 11-27-2009 at 07:05 PM.
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11-27-2009, 06:49 PM
  #163
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Well either way, at least you agree he should have spent more time practicing his skating.
yeah I forgot, all that matters is skating now. Doesn't matter if you can't play for ****, as long as you skate well

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11-27-2009, 06:49 PM
  #164
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It's not like the Canadiens, the current staff at least, have a great track record at developing players outside goaltenders
Hmmmm....Marian Hossa, Marting Havlat, Chris Phillips, Anton Volchenkov, Antoine Vermette, Ryan Callahan, Dan Girardi, Daniel Alfredsson, Radek Bonk, Brandon Dubinsky, Nigel Dawes, Petr Prucha, Blair Betts, Wade Redden, Mike Fisher, Christoph Schubert, Chris Neil, Zdeno Chara, Andrej Meszaros, Brian Pothier

***players under Martin and/or Perry Pearn****

Yeah...who the hell are those guys...especially Zdeno Chara...what a bust that guy became. And of course, what does Marian Hossa have on Guillaume Latendresse

Again, Please!

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11-27-2009, 06:49 PM
  #165
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Hmmmm....Marian Hossa, Marting Havlat, Chris Phillips, Anton Volchenkov, Antoine Vermette, Ryan Callahan, Dan Girardi, Daniel Alfredsson, Radek Bonk, Brandon Dubinsky, Nigel Dawes, Petr Prucha, Blair Betts, Wade Redden, Mike Fisher, Christoph Schubert, Chris Neil, Zdeno Chara, Andrej Meszaros, Brian Pothier

Yeah...who the hell are those guys...especially Zdeno Chara...what a bust that guy became. And of course, what does Marian Hossa have on Guillaume Latendresse

Again, Please!
yeah, all developed by the Canadiens

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11-27-2009, 06:52 PM
  #166
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yeah, all developed by the Canadiens
YOU said the following

"It's not like the Canadiens, the current staff at least, have a great track record at developing players outside goaltenders"

I won't even bother listing the players the Habs have developped over the years...you've embarassed yourself enough for one night

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11-27-2009, 06:53 PM
  #167
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11-27-2009, 06:53 PM
  #168
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I'm not going to bring up counter arguments because it will basically be the same stuff 417 has brought up.

I dont think lats is useless, tbh. At his best, I think he can be a tweener on the 2nd/3rd lines but I think he can be a decent 3rd liner as shown by his work down the stretch last season.

He's got to work on some things, as mentioned, and maybe getting away from this market will work for him the same way it worked for ribeiro.

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11-27-2009, 06:56 PM
  #169
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Your missing the point. These players were developed by the Habs. Just because they aren't on the team anymore doesn't mean that they were not developed properly.

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11-27-2009, 06:57 PM
  #170
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Gui, Gui, Gui's first game in Minnesota:

14 minutes of ice time (all at even strength), 0 points, 0 shots, -1, played mostly on a line with Andrew Brunette

He did have 4 hits, so I guess he was just slightly less useless than when he was a Hab.

Yup, we sure do miss Gui, huh Jean-Charles?

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11-27-2009, 06:58 PM
  #171
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Your missing the point. These players were developed by the Habs. Just because they aren't on the team anymore doesn't mean that they were not developed properly.
people reached the same conclusion we do on Latendresse. Even if they were useful, they did not reach expectations the team put on them.

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Gui, Gui, Gui's first game in Minnesota:

14 minutes of ice time (all at even strength), 0 points, 0 shots, -1, played mostly on a line with Andrew Brunette

He did have 4 hits, so I guess he was just slightly less useless than when he was a Hab.

Yup, we sure do miss Gui, huh Jean-Charles?
Crosby didn't get any points today, what do we do with him? and Latendresse played with Clutterbuck and Brodziak, watch the game man!

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11-27-2009, 07:01 PM
  #172
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I will first state this:
If you have any doubts, please search my posts for what I have said about Pleky (my favourite player since the past 4 years btw, even last year cuz he was still playing at 100% and doing good things) and Akost (when things were down for him). I always defended them because I knew their problems were temporary and fixable. they have had huge streaks of being crappy, but their talent has always been there and it has really been more about coralling it.

I am not a Lats hater, and usually I hate for anybody to get traded, but after 3 seasons+, my analysis of him is simply that he's not very good at all. There have been moments, long stretches even when he used his body, was great behind the net and seemed to be improving. but at the end of the day, he is incapable of doing what he NEEDS to to be successful
either:
- be a hitting machine and a shutdown guy who works hard in the corners and gets turnovers from the other team
- be a PF and go to the net and skate past players (not the ever so typical skate fown the left wing then skate around the net and do something idiotic with the puck, including bs shots that waste a zone entry)

He has not been good ENOUGH in either of those regards and most of his success has been based on others helping him, not HIS personal ability to make the good play. He'll always be a piggy-back rider and of course he's young and it's not typical to judge someone at this stage, but we've seen the guyplay enough games and have enough experience to realize IMO, that he's devoid of "what it takes". I really like the guy, I know he cares, I know he works hard, but a this point after every off-season of "Gui has been conditioning and improving his game", etc., he just comes back the same old Lats.

I would have been fine to keep him and let him stagnate, b ut the fact that we got Pouliot for him makes this trade a good one in my estimation. We know Pouliot is an underachiever at the NHL level, but two basic things cause me to believe it's a good trade (and these have been discussed in this thread):
1) Minnesota has been the wrong type of environment for him to thrive in. Put him with Pleks, Camm, Gomez, Gionta, AK, SK (if SK continues his trend) and I guarentee this guy will raise his game to the next level
2) He has PURE talent. Just watching some of his play makes me think that he's a big-ish forward with pure skill. We don't get them very often (Kovy was the last one). He seems like a game-changer. Lats was never a game changer.

Obviously it all depends on transforming Pouliot and we will see what happens with that. One thing is for sure- he can't be as useles as Lats or he will be just as useless or he will be a killer. Worth the bargain.

If lats becomes a solid player in Minnesota (obviously defence-first), I will be shocked depending on his role, which I cant figure out. Still I won't care, cuz it's one of those cases where he was just not going to be becoming dominant here and there are far more people we have coming up (who unfortunately for the media are anglo) who play Lats' role far better than he does. Not that Lapierre has been amazing this year, but I hope it doens't affect his game, cuz that's a guy who (like Pleky and Akost) who I think has the good but needs to bring them (this season at least).

note: The ribs thing i am still unsure about given I liked him in his early days with us, before he got punk-status, but to be fair he has become a very good player. not sure whether that would have happened here. He definitely had the skills so again, that's where it differs from Lats (I know people think 84 was uber talented, but I never saw it).

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11-27-2009, 07:08 PM
  #173
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Crosby didn't get any points today, what do we do with him? and Latendresse played with Clutterbuck and Brodziak, watch the game man!
Dude, just give it up for today. Latendresse was too slow to be a puck mover, too scared and soft to be a powerforward and too much of a liabilty defensively to be a checker. What did you want the Habs to do after 4 years of wasting our time? It's finally over.... let's just appreciate it and hope for the best with Pouliot.

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11-27-2009, 07:09 PM
  #174
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I don't want to jump into this because I missed many posts, but Plekanec is not a product of the actual staff, more like a Julien's product. Latendresse came into the league with a rookie coach who put him with Begin and Downey, while he had success in pre-season with Bonk.

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11-27-2009, 07:18 PM
  #175
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Latendresse tonight 0 points, 0 shots, -1

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