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Latendresse traded to Wild for Benoit Pouliot, Part 3

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Old
11-27-2009, 07:20 PM
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kent_carlson View Post
I don't want to jump into this because I missed many posts, but Plekanec is not a product of the actual staff, more like a Julien's product. Latendresse came into the league with a rookie coach who put him with Begin and Downey, while he had success in pre-season with Bonk.
Pleky's breakout season was arguably under Carbo. I'm sure Julien had impact too (if you are referring to in the AHL), but I think Pleky's development is self-made. Also, one of the major things JM said when he got him was:
"I want to work with Tomas Plekanec"

I think it's obvious that whatever he's done has worked. It's also cuz I think Pleky is a great player in more than one dimension. His mental toughness is there and his ability to figure out what's wrong with his game and fix it. I've been a huge fan of his ever since he was in our system and he's never been a guy to complain, to cause ****, to blame other people for his lack of succes...hell he called himself a little girl opening the door to the legion of fans to use that against him.

Again, Lats isn't horrible, but we need better from a guy who has been spoonfed from the start. Also people forget that he WAS sent to the minors for a season after that great pre-season and people were so pissed about that decision. He did have AHL development. Of course, the french superstar agenda may have resulted in a premature promotion, but for everyone who's arguing that he played so well with Tanguay and koivu and whoever -- that's an indication that he was able to learn and develop with some very skilled players. Development also happens in the NHL itself and if you read what Pearn did (physically placing him in front of the net, cuz Lats just didn't get it), you'll realise that the guy just doesn't learn. I wish him the best, but I wish Pouliot much better.

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11-27-2009, 07:23 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by VAN-HAB View Post
Latendresse tonight 0 points, 0 shots, -1
he played 14 min.
eh thats a decent 1st game for him

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11-27-2009, 07:52 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
Pleky's breakout season was arguably under Carbo. I'm sure Julien had impact too (if you are referring to in the AHL), but I think Pleky's development is self-made. Also, one of the major things JM said when he got him was:
"I want to work with Tomas Plekanec"

I think it's obvious that whatever he's done has worked. It's also cuz I think Pleky is a great player in more than one dimension. His mental toughness is there and his ability to figure out what's wrong with his game and fix it. I've been a huge fan of his ever since he was in our system and he's never been a guy to complain, to cause ****, to blame other people for his lack of succes...hell he called himself a little girl opening the door to the legion of fans to use that against him.

Again, Lats isn't horrible, but we need better from a guy who has been spoonfed from the start. Also people forget that he WAS sent to the minors for a season after that great pre-season and people were so pissed about that decision. He did have AHL development. Of course, the french superstar agenda may have resulted in a premature promotion, but for everyone who's arguing that he played so well with Tanguay and koivu and whoever -- that's an indication that he was able to learn and develop with some very skilled players. Development also happens in the NHL itself and if you read what Pearn did (physically placing him in front of the net, cuz Lats just didn't get it), you'll realise that the guy just doesn't learn. I wish him the best, but I wish Pouliot much better.
i won't argue with most of your points, but I was responding to a message about Plekanec and our ACTUAL staff. On the other hand, GL never had AHL development, it was the NHL or the Q.

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11-27-2009, 08:07 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by husamus156 View Post
he played 14 min.
eh thats a decent 1st game for him
exactly with decent stats

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11-27-2009, 08:09 PM
  #180
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We can all debate who deserves credit for Plekanec, or accepts fault for Lats, but at the end of the day what counts is talent, work ethic and a brain (ie: not admitting to the media that you were sleeping 30 minutes before a game). If you have them, the chances of success are high... If you don't, you get traded and have a shorter career.

Latendresse sold himself as being an offensive player and confessed that he needs to use his size more effectively... but that's his problem right there... most big men with offensive upside master the "physical" aspect 1st in the NHL and THEN the scoring comes in years 3 - 5... But Brainwashed by media baby boy Latendresse thought he can develop on his offensive talent alone I sure do feel bad for him... If only someone just told him the truth Yet, he still feels the need to shift the blame over to the organization. ....Like I said, talent, work ethic and a brain ...

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11-27-2009, 09:15 PM
  #181
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If our development is not good why is Pleks doing so well?

O.Byrne seems to be doing ok. White and Pyatt and to some extent Dags and Chips are doing just fine. These guys work hard though and are working into the role they have. Lats was projected as a 2nd line power forward because he has good offense but he is still not there. Sure Lats can be a good third liner but we have guys that will be very good third liners and that makes him expendable. He has scored at a god clip but this season on the second line and on the second PP which he saw very little time he really did not show he belonged.

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11-27-2009, 09:26 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by habfan1968 View Post
If our development is not good why is Pleks doing so well?

O.Byrne seems to be doing ok. White and Pyatt and to some extent Dags and Chips are doing just fine. These guys work hard though and are working into the role they have. Lats was projected as a 2nd line power forward because he has good offense but he is still not there. Sure Lats can be a good third liner but we have guys that will be very good third liners and that makes him expendable. He has scored at a god clip but this season on the second line and on the second PP which he saw very little time he really did not show he belonged.
well then why do I read over and over that Timmins is really good but we can't develop our players. Montreal keeps repeating this. Here's a quote of him

"My point is that these kids are doing a good job in juniors/NCAA, then in the AHL, and then the seem to struggle in the NHL. Yes AHL success does not mean NHL success, but all of them? That doesn't strike you as odd?"


Last edited by Mathletic: 11-27-2009 at 09:35 PM.
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Old
11-27-2009, 09:38 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by VAN-HAB View Post
Latendresse tonight 0 points, 0 shots, -1
He is catching up Komi's -9 and big 0 points

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Old
11-27-2009, 09:41 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
MathMan...Plekanec has shown PROGRESSION in his play AND his stats since he came over to North America, in the AHL and in the NHL.
So did Latendresse. Before this year he got better every year.

I don't see why you think it is not the case. Even if you do not want to admit it with subjective observation, it certainly is the case statistically.

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11-27-2009, 09:49 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
I know you'll just come back with some smart ass remark, but seriously man..how the hell do you expect people to take you seriously when you make comments like these?
His skating and defensive play have greatly improved since he broke into the league.

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11-27-2009, 09:51 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
so are you suggesting that latendresse is the next ribeiro? Ribs already had a 65 point season with the habs, so we all knew he could put up points even before he got traded.
Lats is not Ribeiro. Ultimately losing him is unlikely to be that big of a big deal.

What annoys me is that people personally dislike him to the point that they do not accept his achievements and do not acknowledge his value, and therefore think that this trade is fantastic. It is not. It is a bad trade.

There is nothing wrong in trading Latendresse if he doesn't fit the team, so long as the trade is reasonable value. Trading a useful NHL regular for a longshot is not good value, especially if they are of the same age.

There are people here who would have been happy if Latendresse was outright given away, which should tell you something about their lack of rationality. I bet some of them will even admit to it. And there's a not-insignificant chance that the Habs just did exactly that, even if I hope dearly that Pouliot does pan out.

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11-27-2009, 10:05 PM
  #187
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Comments on Lats by Wild fans on today's game (Suite et fin)

First Part: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...&postcount=136

Other positives

4-good game today, i am diggin having Latendresse. He had some opportunities and i like his physicality. i hope it works out for him here.

5-Lats looked okay for his debut. Useless at first, but had a good wraparound chance (mental note: shoot the puck towards the net, not away). He had a couple good hits too. I sure hope he sees this trade as a wakeup call to work harder and keep skating. Clutterbuck was great as always. Brodziak was fine.


My comments:

I find it interesting to have fresh eyes on such a mediatized player.
Wild fans on first glance seemed to really like his physicality. No one criticized his skating. Some fans thought he could be more effective working around the net.
I think everyone can agree it's up to Lats to start showing the more offensive aspects of his game to win PP time and work in the Top-6.

The End (now he's the enemy and can go **** himself )

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Old
11-27-2009, 10:07 PM
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Lats is not Ribeiro. Ultimately losing him is unlikely to be that big of a big deal.

What annoys me is that people personally dislike him to the point that they do not accept his achievements and do not acknowledge his value, and therefore think that this trade is fantastic. It is not. It is a bad trade.

There is nothing wrong in trading Latendresse if he doesn't fit the team, so long as the trade is reasonable value. Trading a useful NHL regular for a longshot is not good value, especially if they are of the same age.

There are people here who would have been happy if Latendresse was outright given away, which should tell you something about their lack of rationality. I bet some of them will even admit to it. And there's a not-insignificant chance that the Habs just did exactly that, even if I hope dearly that Pouliot does pan out.
Sure, Gui has more games played and goals. But given the situation that he obviously doesn't have the skills/willingness to play the type of game the coach wants him to (even on the bottom 6), and that a player of higher skill, better skating, and therefore possibly a better fit for the coach's style was available... that's hardly bad value. Speaking in terms of potential, of course, since both are still young, and none of us have a crystal ball.

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Old
11-27-2009, 10:07 PM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
Comments on Lats by Wild fans on today's game (Suite et fin)

First Part: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...&postcount=136

Other positives

4-good game today, i am diggin having Latendresse. He had some opportunities and i like his physicality. i hope it works out for him here.

5-Lats looked okay for his debut. Useless at first, but had a good wraparound chance (mental note: shoot the puck towards the net, not away). He had a couple good hits too. I sure hope he sees this trade as a wakeup call to work harder and keep skating. Clutterbuck was great as always. Brodziak was fine.


My comments:

I find it interesting to have fresh eyes on such a mediatized player.
Wild fans on first glance seemed to really like his physicality. No one criticized his skating. Some fans thought he could be more effective working around the net.
I think everyone can agree it's up to Lats to start showing the more offensive aspects of his game to win PP time and work in the Top-6.

The End (now he's the enemy and can go **** himself )

Wait until they realize that all of that physicality is when he makes contact with the boards.

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Old
11-27-2009, 10:15 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Wait until they realize that all of that physicality is when he makes contact with the boards.
Is it a hobby around here, making up crap on former prospects that are no longer cool to cheep for?

Latendresse was among the league leaders in hits the last 2 years but I guess the count the times guys hit the boards?

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Old
11-27-2009, 10:22 PM
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Is it a hobby around here, making up crap on former prospects that are no longer cool to cheep for?

Latendresse was among the league leaders in hits the last 2 years but I guess the count the times guys hit the boards?
Almost all of his hits amout to nothing because the puck is long gone. If he actually caused turn overs by his hits he'd still be here.

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11-27-2009, 10:25 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Is it a hobby around here, making up crap on former prospects that are no longer cool to cheep for?

Latendresse was among the league leaders in hits the last 2 years but I guess they count the times guys hit the boards?
If it sounds like a hit...

But seriously, he does just ram the boards sometimes. And almost none of those hits actually ever separated a guy from the puck, or gave the other player difficulty trying to move the puck. I'm willing to bet they were over 95% just "following through/finishing" checks. Good on him for doing it, as games are long and getting hit adds up, but let's not over-play whatever physical stamp he puts on games.

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11-27-2009, 10:26 PM
  #193
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Almost all of his hits amout to nothing because the puck is long gone. If he actually caused turn overs by his hits he'd still be here.
..another great piece of hockey knowledge there.

So only hits that cause turnovers are useful. why do coaches tell their players to finish their hits then(even if the puck is gone)?

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11-27-2009, 11:19 PM
  #194
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Funny anecdote:

I was at a family gathering last night. My uncle (who's a great guy) was there and he said he was really upset by the Lats trade. I tried to defend the trade: "2 players that needed a new start in new environments, blah, blah, blah...". Then I joked about Brunet's sad face after the trade...

He didn't seem very amused. I then found out his cousin's son is Latendresse.

I got a bunch of:
-"On a des Latendresse dans famille!,
- "Pouliot c't'un bon a rien, y'a rien fait pendant trois ans avec Lemaire, Lemaire!, LEMAIRE!!!"
-"Faut qui sorte Gainey d'Montréal"

That didn't go over so well...

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11-27-2009, 11:20 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
..another great piece of hockey knowledge there.

So only hits that cause turnovers are useful. why do coaches tell their players to finish their hits then(even if the puck is gone)?
You understand what you want to understand so I wont waste my time.

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11-27-2009, 11:26 PM
  #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
Funny anecdote:

I was at a family gathering last night. My uncle (who's a great guy) was there and he said he was really upset by the Lats trade. I tried to defend the trade: "2 players that needed a new start in new environments, blah, blah, blah...". Then I joked about Brunet's sad face after the trade...

He didn't seem very amused. I then found out his cousin's son is Latendresse.

I got a bunch of:
-"On a des Latendresse dans famille!,
- "Pouliot c't'un bon a rien, y'a rien fait pendant trois ans avec Lemaire, Lemaire!, LEMAIRE!!!"
-"Faut qui sorte Gainey d'Montréal"

That didn't go over so well...
well Latendresse came to a party my sister had at our house the summer he got drafted by the Voltigeurs. So, I finally gave up why I defend him as well, I may not have Latendresse blood but I guess there's some of my beer in his body

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Old
11-27-2009, 11:57 PM
  #197
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well then why do I read over and over that Timmins is really good but we can't develop our players. Montreal keeps repeating this. Here's a quote of him

"My point is that these kids are doing a good job in juniors/NCAA, then in the AHL, and then the seem to struggle in the NHL. Yes AHL success does not mean NHL success, but all of them? That doesn't strike you as odd?"
Did Timmins really say this?

I have a lot of respect for Trevor, I'd like to know were you've seen this. Imho a lot of our prospects/former players were not develloped properly under Carbo at least. We'll have to wait and see about the Martin/Boucher tandem however. To see Timmins having the same opinion is interesting to say the least.

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11-28-2009, 12:01 AM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
..another great piece of hockey knowledge there.

So only hits that cause turnovers are useful. why do coaches tell their players to finish their hits then(even if the puck is gone)?
This will apply to players that actually hit other players when they have the puck. Coach will tell them to finish their checks even if the player got rid of hit, to make them pay.
But if a player pretty much always gives late hits, then not too many of them become useful.
Lats rarely gets to a player that still has the puck. That's why it's so rare for you see him punish players even though he has plenty of checks under his name. He never has the advantage coming in for the checks.

The main reason for checking used to be to knock the opposing player off the puck. When's the last time you truly saw Lats do that???
It's great to finish your checks, but that becomes quite useless if you never get there in time. A player finishing his check is not a rare quality to find among players.

Even there, I saw Lats (and Lappy for that matter), back off too many times from hitting players when they had the chance. Whereas a guy like Lucic will think about hitting the player no matter what. That's how you build a reputation of a hard hitter.
Lats wanted no part in that, or didn't know how to do it.


Last edited by Kriss E: 11-28-2009 at 12:07 AM.
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Old
11-28-2009, 12:05 AM
  #199
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Originally Posted by FleeingKostitsyn View Post
Did Timmins really say this?

I have a lot of respect for Trevor, I'd like to know were you've seen this. Imho a lot of our prospects/former players were not develloped properly under Carbo at least. We'll have to wait and see about the Martin/Boucher tandem however. To see Timmins having the same opinion is interesting to say the least.
I said Montreal, the mod here not Trevor

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Old
11-28-2009, 12:10 AM
  #200
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I said Montreal, the mod here not Trevor
I don't know why I mis-read this, I'll blame swine flu... I'd still like to know Timmins opinion on this anyways. If anyone here meets him, please ask him

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