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Will Tambellini blow the ship this season?

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Old
11-27-2009, 12:56 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
I always lol when I hear this.

Yeah, great plan. Let me compose an e-mail to Tambo.

"Dear Mr. Tambellini:

Please use your 7th round pick to draft the next Zetterberg or Datsyuk, and not a lesser player.

Sincerely,

Mr Bugg"
You're missing the point...

It's about good scouting, good player development, and surrounding young players with veteran talent and leadership to show them the proper way to play.

Think it was a coincidence that the Oil found a couple faceoff magicians after Adam Oates's stay? Or that the likes of Pronger, Spacek, Samsonov, Smyth, and several other reliable vets carried the '06 Oilers to the promised land?

Players like Stoll, Hemsky, Horcoff, Pisani, Greene, and Bergeron evolved into impact players right before our eyes. It's no coincidence at all.

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11-27-2009, 01:01 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Probably a ten percent chance at best. Hall would be 80%. I know where my money would be.
I dont disagree, Im just saying

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11-27-2009, 01:01 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by The Last Dynasty View Post
how many of those players are top-5 picks? (ie. blue chippers)

none...we need a FRANCHISE player to build around, and the only way we're getting one is through the draft
I've grown really tired of this argument. You (and others) say you want to obtain a franchise player through the draft, but yet fail to see that teams with franchise players other than the Detroit Red Wings (ie. Pittsburgh, Washington, Chicago and LA are good examples) hardly tanked seasons out of strategy. These franchises were literally run to the ground through bad management, pathetic fan support and general on-ice incompetence, and "lucked" into a series of top picks as a result of complete and utter failure.

Another example against this theory would be Atlanta, who as an expansion team had no worse than a #2 overall pick for their first four years as a franchise. Their picks were Patrik Stefan, Dany Heatley, Alexei Kovalchuk and Kari Lehtonen. Solid picks, but have they taken off, despite having four years in a row with no worse than a #2 overall pick? The next year, they took Braydon Coburn with the 8th overall pick.

This isn't so simple, people! It's not so easy as tanking a year. It's tanking multiple years, running the franchise into the ground and hoping for some luck that obviously some teams like Atlanta haven't had. Or, do what other contending teams have done: build a solid core and complement with free agents as they come up.

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11-27-2009, 01:03 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by A Vandelay View Post
You're missing the point...

It's about good scouting, good player development, and surrounding young players with veteran talent and leadership to show the right way how to do things.

Think it was a coincidence that the Oil found a couple faceoff magicians after Adam Oates's stay? Or that the likes of Pronger, Spacek, Samsonov, Smyth, and several other reliable vets carried the '06 Oilers to the promised land?

Players like Stoll, Hemsky, Horcoff, Greene, and Bergeron evolved into impact players right before our eyes. It's no coincidence at all.
Did they really 'evolve', though? You'd be hard-pressed to demonstrate that any of that group has been able to consistently duplicate their results from the magical 05-06 year.

I think it was more a case of a great supporting cast boosting the numbers of their linemates, either directly or by allowing them to play in sheltered situations.

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11-27-2009, 01:05 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by jt780 View Post
I've grown really tired of this argument. You (and others) say you want to obtain a franchise player through the draft, but yet fail to see that teams with franchise players other than the Detroit Red Wings (ie. Pittsburgh, Washington, Chicago and LA are good examples) hardly tanked seasons out of strategy. These franchises were literally run to the ground through bad management, pathetic fan support and general on-ice incompetence, and "lucked" into a series of top picks as a result of complete and utter failure.

Another example against this theory would be Atlanta, who as an expansion team had no worse than a #2 overall pick for their first four years as a franchise. Their picks were Patrik Stefan, Dany Heatley, Alexei Kovalchuk and Kari Lehtonen. Solid picks, but have they taken off, despite having four years in a row with no worse than a #2 overall pick? The next year, they took Braydon Coburn with the 8th overall pick.

This isn't so simple, people! It's not so easy as tanking a year. It's tanking multiple years, running the franchise into the ground and hoping for some luck that obviously some teams like Atlanta haven't had. Or, do what other contending teams have done: build a solid core and complement with free agents as they come up.
I've been waiting for someone else to say this. Well done.

Look at the New Jersey Devils. Year after year it seems like they need to fill holes in their lineup. They draft well, develop their players, and bring in quality, reliable, and usually affordable free agents if they can't fill those holes from within their organization.

Not to mention, they're not afraid to dump salary in "disrespectful" ways (see: Mogilny, Alexander and Malakhov, Vladimir).

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11-27-2009, 01:08 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
Did they really 'evolve', though? You'd be hard-pressed to demonstrate that any of that group has been able to consistently duplicate their results from the magical 05-06 year.

I think it was more a case of a great supporting cast boosting the numbers of their linemates, either directly or by allowing them to play in sheltered situations.
Of course they didn't evolve, the veteran core of the '06 run wasn't kept around long enough for the evolution and progression to continue. That's why it continues to take seemingly forever for the aforementioned players to become consistent.

And you hit the nail on the head, a good vet core shelters the youngsters and allows them to blossom by progressing their development by gradually facing tougher opposition.

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11-27-2009, 01:10 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by A Vandelay View Post
You're missing the point...

It's about good scouting, good player development, and surrounding young players with veteran talent and leadership to show them the proper way to play.

Think it was a coincidence that the Oil found a couple faceoff magicians after Adam Oates's stay? Or that the likes of Pronger, Spacek, Samsonov, Smyth, and several other reliable vets carried the '06 Oilers to the promised land?

Players like Stoll, Hemsky, Horcoff, Pisani, Greene, and Bergeron evolved into impact players right before our eyes. It's no coincidence at all.
I dont get this part at all. We sucked that year. Until we squeaked into the playoffs. I remember being frustrated that we would outplay teams night after night, but would lose because our two goalies couldnt stop a beach ball.

Then it was like being the last one at the party. Everyone has buggered off home and you are left holding the bag. Most of the players that came to help us left. Pretty much Roli was the only one who stayed. I remember thinking, cripes we are so screwed. Those guys you listed didnt really seem to learn anything. They keep showing us how little they learned every second or third night.

You would never know any of our vets had even been in the playoffs before by watching them.

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11-27-2009, 01:15 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by jt780 View Post
I've grown really tired of this argument. You (and others) say you want to obtain a franchise player through the draft, but yet fail to see that teams with franchise players other than the Detroit Red Wings (ie. Pittsburgh, Washington, Chicago and LA are good examples) hardly tanked seasons out of strategy. These franchises were literally run to the ground through bad management, pathetic fan support and general on-ice incompetence, and "lucked" into a series of top picks as a result of complete and utter failure.

Another example against this theory would be Atlanta, who as an expansion team had no worse than a #2 overall pick for their first four years as a franchise. Their picks were Patrik Stefan, Dany Heatley, Alexei Kovalchuk and Kari Lehtonen. Solid picks, but have they taken off, despite having four years in a row with no worse than a #2 overall pick? The next year, they took Braydon Coburn with the 8th overall pick.

This isn't so simple, people! It's not so easy as tanking a year. It's tanking multiple years, running the franchise into the ground and hoping for some luck that obviously some teams like Atlanta haven't had. Or, do what other contending teams have done: build a solid core and complement with free agents as they come up.
It has been documented that Washington did have a plan to go to the bottom. Do you think they unloaded Jagr out of stupidity or lack of finances? It was done because buying ufa's wasnt working for them. I would love to hear how you propose to build this core you are talking about. Keep in mind how hard it is to get any players of consequence to come here.

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11-27-2009, 01:20 AM
  #34
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Tambellini is as elusive as bigfoot. You never see or hear from the guy.

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11-27-2009, 01:22 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Tambellini is as elusive as bigfoot. You never see or hear from the guy.
He was on Oilers lunch this week. Telling us how positive things look.

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11-27-2009, 01:22 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
It has been documented that Washington did have a plan to go to the bottom. Do you think they unloaded Jagr out of stupidity or lack of finances? It was done because buying ufa's wasnt working for them. I would love to hear how you propose to build this core you are talking about. Keep in mind how hard it is to get any players of consequence to come here.
And the Oilers should have tanked when they traded Smyth. It's too late for that. I'm repeating myself but I'm not prepared to sit through another two or three years of accumulating draft picks. Things fell apart in 06/07 and the healing should have started then.

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11-27-2009, 01:24 AM
  #37
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He was on Oilers lunch this week. Telling us how positive things look.
To be fair there's nary a GM that will go on radio or television and express how disappointed they are. Brian Burke keeps feeding the Toronto media "the plan".

If he isn't disappointed behind the scenes then there's something wrong.

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11-27-2009, 01:26 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
And the Oilers should have tanked when they traded Smyth. It's too late for that. I'm repeating myself but I'm not prepared to sit through another two or three years of accumulating draft picks. Things fell apart in 06/07 and the healing should have started then.
I see your Smyth and I raise you a Pronger. The rebuild should have happened at that point. Forget about Lupul, we want a top three pick for Pronger. Simple as that. Cut Smyth and Horcoff, forget about getting Souray, we could be done our rebuild by now and be in the playoffs this year or next for sure.

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11-27-2009, 01:28 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by A Vandelay View Post
if Oiler management decided to make serious changes to the roster (I firmly believe they would not "blow it up"), who would you keep?

For me, it's simple:

Hemsky
Penner
Gagner
Brule
Comrie
Jacques
Stone
Visnovsky
Souray
Smid
Khabibulin
Deslauriers

That leaves 6 slots for forwards, 4 slots for defence (I'm counting the obligatory press box players). I am not including Potulny or Chorney, since they would otherwise be in Springfield right now. Assuming they remained with the big club,however, that's still 5 slots for forwards and 3 slots for D. Plenty of room to improve.
To me:

Penner-X-Hemsky
X-Gagner-X
JFJ-Brule-Stone
X-X-Stortini

Souray-Gilbert
Visnovsky-Smid
X-X


Some of the Xs will hopefully be filled from within the system (e.g. Eberle and MPS on the second line, O'Marra for the 4th line, Peckham/Plante, Motin on the bottom pairing), but I would not count on it).

Grebeshkov, Cogliano, O'Sullivan should be used in trade. Getting rid of Horcoff might necessitate taking back another bad contract (e.g. Jeff Finger type), but I think it has to be done at this point. Then hope to acquire a real 1st line center (Lecavalier or Brad Richards maybe).--The package centering around a combination of Grebeshkov, Cogliano, O'Sullivan, Peckham might get it done.

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11-27-2009, 01:29 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
To be fair there's nary a GM that will go on radio or television and express how disappointed they are. Brian Burke keeps feeding the Toronto media "the plan".

If he isn't disappointed behind the scenes then there's something wrong.
The owner has to be on board for a rebuild. I dont think he is. Kevin Lowe would never stand by and watch his team be dismantled either. Get ready for more of the same.

Thank you sir may I have another!

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11-27-2009, 01:33 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
I see your Smyth and I raise you a Pronger. The rebuild should have happened at that point. Forget about Lupul, we want a top three pick for Pronger. Simple as that. Cut Smyth and Horcoff, forget about getting Souray, we could be done our rebuild by now and be in the playoffs this year or next for sure.
I would have kept Horcoff if I were GM, he just wouldn't have seen that ridiculous contract. He's a useful centre when he isn't in an offense or bust role. Unfortunately, he parlayed his friendship with Lowe and Katz into a pretty penny.

The only contracts that I don't blame Lowe for post-Cup run are Pisani's (the Rangers were offering more and with everybody else running out town Lowe HAD to re-sign the playoff hero) and Souray. Souray is a great leader on the blueline and every team needs a guy like him back there.

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11-27-2009, 01:43 AM
  #42
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Of course they didn't evolve, the veteran core of the '06 run wasn't kept around long enough for the evolution and progression to continue. That's why it continues to take seemingly forever for the aforementioned players to become consistent.
But we kept the majority of the veterans from that run. And with the exception of Pronger, those that did leave have been fringe contributors elsewhere.

This seems to be similar to the myth that pervaded throughout the MacT era- that players we lost went on to success elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by A Vandelay View Post
Look at the New Jersey Devils. Year after year it seems like they need to fill holes in their lineup. They draft well, develop their players, and bring in quality, reliable, and usually affordable free agents if they can't fill those holes from within their organization.
That was the Devils in the Free Agency Era. We have a salary cap now, and since then, New Jersey has not gotten past the second round. The same goes for Dallas and Colorado. In fact, the only big spender that has remained a consistent contender is Detroit. This leads to the same criticism: there is only one Detroit. You can't just aim to be like the Wings. You need personnel- both on ice and in the front office- that is the most talented of their generation.

New Jersey's success can be traced to three major events:

-Brodeur being selected 20th in 1990

-The Devils being awarded Stevens in the Shanahan offer sheet arbitration

-The Leafs trading their first round pick to New Jersey for Tom Kurvers prior to the 1991 Draft.

The same goes for Detroit:

-Selecting Yzerman fourth in 1983
-Finding Fedorov and Lidstrom in 1989
-Hiring Scotty Bowman

The default answer would be 'David Conte' and 'Hakan Andersson' respectively, but Conte wasn't named chief Devils scout until 1992 and Andersson's first recommendation didn't come until 1994.

Can you learn lessons and try to emulate their front office structure and philosophies? Absolutely, and I've suggested as much many times. But you just can't plan to be like either team. It would be like a club in the 80s using the Oilers as a blueprint. Simple: find yourself the next Gretzky, and draft Messier and Anderson in rounds 3 and 4.

The draft is not and will never be a sure-fire thing, but picking top-two gives you the highest odds of finding elite young talent. There's really no two ways about it.

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11-27-2009, 01:54 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
And the Oilers should have tanked when they traded Smyth. It's too late for that. I'm repeating myself but I'm not prepared to sit through another two or three years of accumulating draft picks. Things fell apart in 06/07 and the healing should have started then.
You should have told that to EIG in 2007, the group that ruined Lowe's career.

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11-27-2009, 01:59 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by A Vandelay View Post
You're missing the point...

It's about good scouting, good player development, and surrounding young players with veteran talent and leadership to show them the proper way to play.

Think it was a coincidence that the Oil found a couple faceoff magicians after Adam Oates's stay? Or that the likes of Pronger, Spacek, Samsonov, Smyth, and several other reliable vets carried the '06 Oilers to the promised land?

Players like Stoll, Hemsky, Horcoff, Pisani, Greene, and Bergeron evolved into impact players right before our eyes. It's no coincidence at all.
That team probably wouldn't even had made the playoffs without a superstar like Pronger. Certainly would not have beat Detroit.

Veterans or not.

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11-27-2009, 02:18 AM
  #45
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That team probably wouldn't even had made the playoffs without a superstar like Pronger. Certainly would not have beat Detroit.

Veterans or not.
Pronger was certainly the factor but as that Detroit series pushed on everybody started upping their game. Everything clicked all at once.

It was the perfect storm.

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11-27-2009, 02:21 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Pronger was certainly the factor but as that Detroit series pushed on everybody started upping their game. Everything clicked all at once.

It was the perfect storm.
He was the best d-man on the planet at least in 2006. He badly outplayed Lidstrom head-to-head in that series. Completely dominated Neidermayer in the Anaheim series as well.

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11-27-2009, 02:37 AM
  #47
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untill the oilers can move some of those 4mill+ comtracts--Tambo's hands are tied

btw

For those whos say habby is over paid

getting a number one goalie for below 4mill a year is good--the fact he is injured right now is causing all these cat calls

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11-27-2009, 02:39 AM
  #48
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Souray and Visnovsky are movable.

So is Grebeshkov. Gilbert possibly.

Probably could still find a taker for O'Sullivan.

The only contract we have that is absolutely untradable is Horcoff.

People said Penner was untradable last year too, but he was traded for Heatley.

We need Taylor Hall more than we need cap room.

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11-27-2009, 02:51 AM
  #49
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Souray and Visnovsky are movable.

So is Grebeshkov. Gilbert possibly.

Probably could still find a taker for O'Sullivan.

The only contract we have that is absolutely untradable is Horcoff.

People said Penner was untradable last year too, but he was traded for Heatley.

We need Taylor Hall more than we need cap room.
sens wanted to move heatley before the 4mill bonus kicked in and are now sueing him

Sens wanted the heatley contract and the player gone

So saying that the oilers almost traded Penner comes with a * as it was from a back in position

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11-27-2009, 03:07 AM
  #50
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Try? Probably.

Execute? Probably not.

He already said at the end of last season big changes were on the way, but swapping goalies and trading a 4th liner doesn't cut it. I know the Heatley thing but I wouldn't classify that under execution.

The reality of the modern cap era combined with bloated contracts (which most teams have anyways).

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