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Old
12-15-2010, 11:19 PM
  #751
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Well, Tallon said tonight the reason the Panthers didn't sign Gudbranson this season was because his agent was "greedy". That should make him a whole lot easier to sign next Summer!

“It takes two to tango,’’ Tallon said. “His agent [Mark Guy] was a little greedy and we couldn’t come to terms.

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports...tinel+Blogs%29

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12-15-2010, 11:38 PM
  #752
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All kinds of misquoting going on in this thread.

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12-15-2010, 11:49 PM
  #753
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Originally Posted by flapanthersfan View Post

im not ignoring anything. but fowlers play in the NHL, the only league that matters, makes anything (positive or negative) he did in junior irrelevant. he's been extremely impressive thus far.

you think people are going to rip sidney crosby now because he had a poor memorial cup? obviously, im exaggerating a ridiculous amount with that analogy, but you get my point. i dont care what fowler did in juniors anymore. i've watched him with the ducks and the kid is damn good.

i'm not writing off gudbranson. i just think passing up on fowler is going to turn out to be a mistake....that's all. the only part we can take comfort in is, we're not the only team to make that mistake.
You're still not getting my point. In the OHL playoffs last season, Fowler was terrible, and Gudbranson has struggled at the WJC camp this week. Obviously, Fowler is doing well right now. Obviously, one bad stretch of games didn't mean he was ruined forever. So we shouldn't act like one bad stretch of games for Gud is the end of the world. Despite any statistics, Gud has been playing very well in Kingston this season, and you shouldn't judge d-men too harshly off of just offensive statistics anyway. D-men are there to play defense first. Sure we would all like him to score more, but he wasn't projected to be a big scorer anyway.

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i have no problem with you - just don't like how you act as if you're some sort of know-it-all on junior hockey, and how others around here praise you for it. truth is, you know very little about these kids future and how they will adapt to the speed of the NHL. (and for the record, i'm not saying i do, either).
I don't act like I'm a know it all. If I have an opinion on something and I know something from having seen certain things watching juniors, then I'm going to say something about it. That's the extent of it. If you don't like the way it comes out, then that's your problem, not mine. I don't think I'm a know it all though and I don't perceive myself as acting that way, and I don't think anyone else here does either. There are a lot of people on these boards who know more about prospects than I do. If anything, people who don't watch a lot of this type of hockey are interested to know more about it, and I know they appreciate it so that's why I share my opinions here. No one's praising anybody, you're totally perceiving it the wrong way.

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12-16-2010, 12:32 AM
  #754
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
You're still not getting my point. In the OHL playoffs last season, Fowler was terrible, and Gudbranson has struggled at the WJC camp this week. Obviously, Fowler is doing well right now. Obviously, one bad stretch of games didn't mean he was ruined forever. So we shouldn't act like one bad stretch of games for Gud is the end of the world. Despite any statistics, Gud has been playing very well in Kingston this season, and you shouldn't judge d-men too harshly off of just offensive statistics anyway. D-men are there to play defense first. Sure we would all like him to score more, but he wasn't projected to be a big scorer anyway.
if that's the case - we shouldn't have picked him 3rd overall. if his UPSIDE (which means, he isnt even guaranteed to hit that) is robyn regehr, who is a excellent player mind you, you dont take him in the third slot when there's players with MUCH higher upside on the board.




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I don't act like I'm a know it all. If I have an opinion on something and I know something from having seen certain things watching juniors, then I'm going to say something about it. That's the extent of it. If you don't like the way it comes out, then that's your problem, not mine. I don't think I'm a know it all though and I don't perceive myself as acting that way, and I don't think anyone else here does either. There are a lot of people on these boards who know more about prospects than I do. If anything, people who don't watch a lot of this type of hockey are interested to know more about it, and I know they appreciate it so that's why I share my opinions here. No one's praising anybody, you're totally perceiving it the wrong way.
whatever - it's pointless to argue this. none of us are scouts...lets just leave it at that.

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12-16-2010, 06:20 AM
  #755
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Originally Posted by flapanthersfan View Post
if that's the case - we shouldn't have picked him 3rd overall. if his UPSIDE (which means, he isnt even guaranteed to hit that) is robyn regehr, who is a excellent player mind you, you dont take him in the third slot when there's players with MUCH higher upside on the board.
I would take a Robyn Regehr at 3rd overall anyday. Too much is made of the "d-men must score a lot of points to go top 5" notion. You are looking for high impact players at that position. It doesn't matter how they impact that game, as long as they have that kind of impact. Chris Phillips was taken 1st overall, and I'm sure the Sens are happy with that pick. Karl Alzner was taken 5th overall and he isn't projected to have much offensive impact at the NHL level. Jared Cowen was taken 9th overall by the Sens, with junior numbers very similar to Gudbranson's. At the beginning of his draft year, he was being mentioned in the same breath as Tavares, Hedman, and Duchene. The only reason he fell like he did is because he tore his ACL and MCL a few months before the draft.

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12-16-2010, 03:08 PM
  #756
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
I would take a Robyn Regehr at 3rd overall anyday. Too much is made of the "d-men must score a lot of points to go top 5" notion. You are looking for high impact players at that position. It doesn't matter how they impact that game, as long as they have that kind of impact. Chris Phillips was taken 1st overall, and I'm sure the Sens are happy with that pick. Karl Alzner was taken 5th overall and he isn't projected to have much offensive impact at the NHL level. Jared Cowen was taken 9th overall by the Sens, with junior numbers very similar to Gudbranson's. At the beginning of his draft year, he was being mentioned in the same breath as Tavares, Hedman, and Duchene. The only reason he fell like he did is because he tore his ACL and MCL a few months before the draft.
this is where we disagree. while i'd love a robyn regehr - he's not a franchise player. i want someone who can help turn this franchise around....if cam fowler ends up fulfilling his potential and is a duncan keith while gudbranson ends up fulfilling his and is a robyn regehr...

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Old
12-16-2010, 07:16 PM
  #757
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Originally Posted by flapanthersfan View Post
this is where we disagree. while i'd love a robyn regehr - he's not a franchise player. i want someone who can help turn this franchise around....if cam fowler ends up fulfilling his potential and is a duncan keith while gudbranson ends up fulfilling his and is a robyn regehr...
I understand your point, but ultimately it's up to the scouts to determine who they think will fulfill their potential and who won't. We'll see in a few years if our guys were right on Gudbranson.

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Old
12-17-2010, 01:47 PM
  #758
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Duck fan here to clear up a few inaccuracies I've seen in the last pages.

First of all, Fowler doesn't play on the top pairing, nor does he play 25 minutes a night (has a few times though). He plays an average of 22 minutes a night on the second pairing with a revolving door of plugs (Mara, Sutton, Lilja). He's been the only reason the Ducks have had a decent second pairing and even made Mara look decent for a stretch.

Second and most importantly, he absolutely does not leach points off of Ryan, Getzlaf and Perry and he normally plays with Selanne, Koivu and Blake 5 on 5. He's earned pretty much every point he's gotten. He has the best breakout passing on the team, he has the best skating on the team and he's the best puck rusher on the team. He's got a a pretty good shot, but his real strength when it comes to shooting, is his hockey IQ. He almost always gets his shot through and doesn't take a big wind up when it's not necessary. The Ducks have scored a lot of goals on Fowler point shots, because he knows where to place them and gets them on net.

Thirdly, he wasn't terrible by any stretch in the OHL playoffs last season and I'm pretty sure he was nursing an injury as well. Not to mention Juniors really aren't all that indicative to how well a player will adapt to the NHL (that obviously goes for Gud as well).

Anyways just wanted to clear a few things up. It's absolutely too early to tell who will be the better player in the future. Obviously Fowler has the higher end potential, but Gudbranson seems like a lock to be a defensive/physical beast.

I also have no idea how Fowler would be doing if he were selected by the Panthers, as he's in the perfect situation in Anaheim. The pick was perfect for both the player and the organization in this situation. Fowler is playing with a lot of good, young players, as well as a couple of great mentors on the back end (Vis and Lydman). He's also able to live with Scott Niedermayer, which is no small luxury.

Either way, it's more than a bit premature to say any team made the wrong choice.

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Old
12-17-2010, 02:29 PM
  #759
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Originally Posted by Fever Dreams View Post
Duck fan here to clear up a few inaccuracies I've seen in the last pages.

First of all, Fowler doesn't play on the top pairing, nor does he play 25 minutes a night (has a few times though). He plays an average of 22 minutes a night on the second pairing with a revolving door of plugs (Mara, Sutton, Lilja). He's been the only reason the Ducks have had a decent second pairing and even made Mara look decent for a stretch.

Second and most importantly, he absolutely does not leach points off of Ryan, Getzlaf and Perry and he normally plays with Selanne, Koivu and Blake 5 on 5. He's earned pretty much every point he's gotten. He has the best breakout passing on the team, he has the best skating on the team and he's the best puck rusher on the team. He's got a a pretty good shot, but his real strength when it comes to shooting, is his hockey IQ. He almost always gets his shot through and doesn't take a big wind up when it's not necessary. The Ducks have scored a lot of goals on Fowler point shots, because he knows where to place them and gets them on net.

Thirdly, he wasn't terrible by any stretch in the OHL playoffs last season and I'm pretty sure he was nursing an injury as well. Not to mention Juniors really aren't all that indicative to how well a player will adapt to the NHL (that obviously goes for Gud as well).

Anyways just wanted to clear a few things up. It's absolutely too early to tell who will be the better player in the future. Obviously Fowler has the higher end potential, but Gudbranson seems like a lock to be a defensive/physical beast.

I also have no idea how Fowler would be doing if he were selected by the Panthers, as he's in the perfect situation in Anaheim. The pick was perfect for both the player and the organization in this situation. Fowler is playing with a lot of good, young players, as well as a couple of great mentors on the back end (Vis and Lydman). He's also able to live with Scott Niedermayer, which is no small luxury.

Either way, it's more than a bit premature to say any team made the wrong choice.
Sorry, but he was. His scoring was off the pace it was in the regular season, he was getting pushed around in front of his net(especially in the Barrie series), and he was on the ice for tons of goals against. I don't know if he was playing through an injury, but he was bad.

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Old
12-17-2010, 03:15 PM
  #760
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Sorry, but he was. His scoring was off the pace it was in the regular season, he was getting pushed around in front of his net(especially in the Barrie series), and he was on the ice for tons of goals against. I don't know if he was playing through an injury, but he was bad.
Isn't that what dropped him down in everyone's eyes?

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12-17-2010, 03:21 PM
  #761
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Sorry, but he was. His scoring was off the pace it was in the regular season, he was getting pushed around in front of his net(especially in the Barrie series), and he was on the ice for tons of goals against. I don't know if he was playing through an injury, but he was bad.
Anything I've read from Windsor fans say that he wasn't bad by any stretch, but that he wasn't as good as he should have been. I seem to remember some injury talk, but it could have just been speculation.

Anyways, his junior career is irrelevant now, just like Gudbranson's will be when he's in the NHL.


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Isn't that what dropped him down in everyone's eyes?
Apparently that was a big part of it. They didn't think his compete level would be enough to handle the NHL. That certainly hasn't been the case so far though. He's never going to be a crease clearer obviously, but that's not his game. He's also become surprisingly more physical as the season has gone along. At the start of the season he would occasionally be overwhelmed along the boards and against hard forechecking teams, but he's really adapted quickly and is improving in that area nightly.


Last edited by Vinegar Strokes: 12-17-2010 at 03:27 PM.
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Old
12-19-2010, 07:23 AM
  #762
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Bergors is reportedly on the block, I wouldn't mind him even though he's on the smaller side.

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Old
12-19-2010, 12:30 PM
  #763
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Bergors is reportedly on the block, I wouldn't mind him even though he's on the smaller side.
i dont want him on our team. he puts up decent amount of points, but they still scratch him very frequently... id say theres something in that i just dont like

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12-28-2010, 02:04 PM
  #764
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Okay I'm late to the discussion and without having to go back and read 15 pages worth....can anyone tell me how Gudbranson has played this year? He seems like he could be a beast on D. What's his upside as well?

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12-29-2010, 03:46 AM
  #765
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Okay I'm late to the discussion and without having to go back and read 15 pages worth....can anyone tell me how Gudbranson has played this year? He seems like he could be a beast on D. What's his upside as well?
he made the opening night roster, but greedy agents and management made it impossible to agree to a contract.

when he first returned to kingston he was struggling a bit due to the fact that he had his mindset on making the panthers and play for us.
slowly and steady he has improved his play in the OHL, even though he hasnt put up an impressive amount of points.
theres no doubt in my mind he will be on our roster in october 2011.

his upside.. well there have been comparisons with pronger, regher, chris phillips etc. some guys on here who watch him play regularly might be better at giving info about this, but to me regher seems like the most fair comparison.

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12-30-2010, 04:21 PM
  #766
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What would you guys think of a possible trade with the Flyers that would send Vokoun to philly and JVR + to us???

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12-30-2010, 04:42 PM
  #767
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What would you guys think of a possible trade with the Flyers that would send Vokoun to philly and JVR + to us???
yes, yes yes!

But they wouldn't trade JVR for a rental in Vokoun.

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12-30-2010, 05:23 PM
  #768
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yes, yes yes!

But they wouldn't trade JVR for a rental in Vokoun.
Salary cap also says hi. We'd need Carle or Hartnell to be a part of that +, I don't think Holmgren would do that.

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01-03-2011, 09:25 AM
  #769
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Rumor has it the Kings and Leafs are talking about a deal that would involve Versteeg heading to LA and Brayden Schenn, yes the outstanding player representing Canada at the World Juniors, heading to the Leafs.
Do you guys think the Panthers should get in on Schenn????
I'd sure as hell would give up any of the players/ prospects we have right now for a franchise center in the making in Schenn.
Probably start with one of Frolik/Booth/Weiss, maybe top 4 D-man (Allen, McCabe?) and prospect(s) or what?

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01-03-2011, 09:29 AM
  #770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyRulez View Post
Rumor has it the Kings and Leafs are talking about a deal that would involve Versteeg heading to LA and Brayden Schenn, yes the outstanding player representing Canada at the World Juniors, heading to the Leafs.
Do you guys think the Panthers should get in on Schenn????
I'd sure as hell would give up any of the players/ prospects we have right now for a franchise center in the making in Schenn.
Probably start with one of Frolik/Booth/Weiss, maybe top 4 D-man (Allen, McCabe?) and prospect(s) or what?
I'd say PEACE to Frolik and McCabe/Allen in a heartbeat. The Kings would be stupid to give up Schenn for Versteeg though.

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01-03-2011, 10:03 AM
  #771
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I'd say PEACE to Frolik and McCabe/Allen in a heartbeat. The Kings would be stupid to give up Schenn for Versteeg though.
agreed.

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01-03-2011, 10:23 AM
  #772
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Originally Posted by HockeyRulez View Post
Rumor has it the Kings and Leafs are talking about a deal that would involve Versteeg heading to LA and Brayden Schenn, yes the outstanding player representing Canada at the World Juniors, heading to the Leafs.
Do you guys think the Panthers should get in on Schenn????
I'd sure as hell would give up any of the players/ prospects we have right now for a franchise center in the making in Schenn.
Probably start with one of Frolik/Booth/Weiss, maybe top 4 D-man (Allen, McCabe?) and prospect(s) or what?
I'm wondering if this is any sort of credible rumor, cause no way in hell do the Kings see Schenn's game highlighted in this years WJC and go, "Hey! Let's trade that kid lololololololol!!!!"

This is probably an HF rumor/proposal started by a leaf fan for obvious reasons. They can keep dreaming, cause it ain't happening.

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01-03-2011, 10:31 AM
  #773
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I'm wondering if this is any sort of credible rumor, cause no way in hell do the Kings see Schenn's game highlighted in this years WJC and go, "Hey! Let's trade that kid lololololololol!!!!"

This is probably an HF rumor/proposal started by a leaf fan for obvious reasons. They can keep dreaming, cause it ain't happening.
I totally agree. People are stupid. For Versteeg no less? Yea, that's good value!

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01-03-2011, 11:10 AM
  #774
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I'm wondering if this is any sort of credible rumor, cause no way in hell do the Kings see Schenn's game highlighted in this years WJC and go, "Hey! Let's trade that kid lololololololol!!!!"

This is probably an HF rumor/proposal started by a leaf fan for obvious reasons. They can keep dreaming, cause it ain't happening.
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklun...-Today/1/32571
(I know its Eklund, but Pierre LeBrun brought it up...)


http://insider.espn.go.com/nhl/featu...ate%3d20110103
(scroll down to Versteeg)

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01-03-2011, 12:32 PM
  #775
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The first one is Eklund and the second one doesn't mention Schenn at all. I'm not really buying it at this point.

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