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Which of our prospect have a shot at the NHL?

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Old
04-16-2004, 01:42 PM
  #1
punchy1
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Which of our prospect have a shot at the NHL?

I thought this might be an easier way to have a look at this subject.


Which of the following players do you see as having a shot at the NHL?


Petiot
Rome
Rullier
Gleason
Grebeshkov
Kuznetsov
Zizka
Anderson
Shefer
Mantaylaa


Murphy
Guerin
Tambellini
Brown
Flinn
Juntunnen
Hogeboom
Murray
Pushkaryev


Boyle
Cammelleri
Lehoux
Fedorov
Steckel
Roneem
Conne
James
Clarke


Barney
Kanko
Karlson
Pirnes
Rosa
Parros
Welch
Smithson


Zaba
Munce
Marsters
Choinard


Feel free to add any of the names I left out and you opinions on the players.


I feel the following will play in the NHL.

D

Petiot/Rome/Rullier/Zizka/Gleason/Kuznetsov/Grebeshkov/Shefer in no particular order.

F

Kanko/Murray/Karlson/Steckel/Boyle/Tambellini/Brown/Hogeboom/James/Clarke/
Barney/Pushkaryev/Erickson/Guerin/Murphy


G

Choinard/Munce


I am not saying where or how or what. I am not giving any breakdowns or what.

Just the players I think will either be stars to starters to getting a sniff in the NHL.

What does your list look like?

Have a go mates!


Last edited by punchy1: 04-17-2004 at 10:40 AM.
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04-16-2004, 03:21 PM
  #2
willie
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This is trying to make it as realistic (and objective) as I possibly can at this point in time.

Stars:
None

Above-Average NHLers :
Gleason, Grebeshkov, Brown

Average NHLers:
Kanko, Petiot, Cammalleri, Barney, Karlsson

Fringe NHLers:
Rome, Zizka, Flinn, Hogeboom, Munce, Guerin, Steckel

Non NHLers:
Andersson, Mantyla, Murphy, Murray, Lehoux, Roonem, James, Clarke, Parros, Welch, Zaba, Marsters, Chouinard

Not Prospects (in my mind, anyway):
Kuznetsov, Shefer, Rullier, Fedorov, Conne, Pirnes (he IS an NHLer), Rosa, Smithson

Wild Cards:
Pushkarov, Boyle, Tambellini

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04-16-2004, 05:37 PM
  #3
punchy1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willie
This is trying to make it as realistic (and objective) as I possibly can at this point in time.

Stars:
None

Above-Average NHLers :
Gleason, Grebeshkov, Brown

Average NHLers:
Kanko, Petiot, Cammalleri, Barney, Karlsson

Fringe NHLers:
Rome, Zizka, Flinn, Hogeboom, Munce, Guerin, Steckel

Non NHLers:
Andersson, Mantyla, Murphy, Murray, Lehoux, Roonem, James, Clarke, Parros, Welch, Zaba, Marsters, Chouinard

Not Prospects (in my mind, anyway):
Kuznetsov, Shefer, Rullier, Fedorov, Conne, Pirnes (he IS an NHLer), Rosa, Smithson

Wild Cards:
Pushkarov, Boyle, Tambellini


Great job willie.

So, you have us as having a whopping 18 prospects who will likely do some damage in the NHL and if you count Pirnes and Kuznetsov, thats 20 who are capable of adding some NHL experience to our roster. I included them as they have yet to fully establish themselves as NHLers. Pirnes likely will next season but for me, until he plays next season for us, he is sort of like Brown and Barney to me. A player who has spent a season or parts of it with the Kings who may or may not be there if we are healthy. That sort of thing.

While I am more optomistic than you, you still have us at about 50% of our prospects listed as making it in the NHL in some degree. You are one of the posters who I feel is a bit on the pesimistic side where some things are concerned (realist?) where I tend to have a bit more of an optomistic slant so for you to say that 18 of our lads should be able to help the team at some level on the ice in the NHL rather it is with us or via trade is smashing good.



Next.

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04-17-2004, 01:34 AM
  #4
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I think a lot of Kings' fans are underestimating Pirnes' game. The guy has real talent and can produce in the right situation. He was also the teams best PK man this season as far as I'm concerned.

I was hoping for more production from him this season but the fact that he had a penalty shot in back-to-back games early in the season shows that he can have a knack for getting chances when put in a scoring role. Anyone who thinks he is a career AHL'er is dead wrong, so I totally agree Willie.

Kuznetsov is worthless IMO.

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04-17-2004, 12:40 PM
  #5
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Good thread, better than the last imo. From what I've seen and believewhat will happen.

Stars: aka Sakic, Modano, even Palffy
None

Above average NHLrs aka: Timonen, Schneider and Weight
Grebs
Gleason
Cammy

Decent NHLrs aka Klatt, Stumple and Miller
Brown
Kanko

Barney
Tambs
Murry(just have a hunch)
Guerin(my long shot and he hasn't proven my wrong yet)
Petiot
Hogeboom

NHLrs aka role players
Steckle
Karlsson
Clarke
Welch
James
Parros
Flinn
Munce and Zaba (backups)

Manchester bound
Andressen
Gabinet
Lehoux
Roonem
Murphy

Wild Cards
Boyle
Push
Juntunnen

Not signed or Euros who may never come over
Rome(just don't think they'll sign him imo)
Mantyla
Pulliannen
Eriksson
Conne

Pirnes is an NHLer and imo a pretty good one at that. Do not underestimate his value to our team.

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04-18-2004, 03:53 AM
  #6
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This thread is easy!




NONE!



I'm being a smart ass and sarcastic, but with this coaching staff in place, we're going nowhere fast. Our brass has finally stuck to a plan to build within.....Brilliant!
It won't work now, or in the future, because it's painfully obvious that our coach's don't know how to mix the talent (the same way Colorado does...EVERY YEAR). We've become a system of robots (x's and o's) that will simply eek through games here and there and continue to get passive fans that are just ok with us getting to post season.
This club needs to take a good hard look in the mirror and figure out what's best for the club.............If that means cutting your losses with players and staff.......SO BE IT!
We're always getting excited about our prospects only to get dissapointed because our coach chooses some career minor leaguer over a kid that's trying everything to become a player in the NHL. It's pretty sad!


Sorry for the Buzz Kill!

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04-18-2004, 01:13 PM
  #7
Fat Elvis
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Swingnuttuer, you have just said what I wanted to and fear. DT has said it time and again that we are going to build from within and only make moves smart for the organization(Aulin ). But who have we developed from within our system who play a regular shift? Belanger, Corvo and um that's it. And these two aren't any prizes to brag about. Lubo was an overage draftee, Fro developed in Russia, Huet an overage draftee. Frankly we have just 2 and the ones who have a chance are Cammy, Barney, Brown and that's it. Somebody else is or has developing everyone else (Gleason, Grebs, Kanko, Tambs, Hogeboom and so on). We have absolutely no track record for doing anything of the sort except for trading them all away. Nutter you have made me depressed in knowing that all these kids with futures are going to be enjoying them with a different franchise (Reinprect, Timonen, Legace, Jason Blake and so on). The problem with the approach our organization is taking, is that we have a coaching staff who prefers the Tripps, Carters and Chartrands of the world over the possibly big upsides of our kids which we'll never get a full shot at until they let them play. What could go wrong, we miss the playoffs or get bounced in the 1st round ? Where's my medicine?

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04-18-2004, 02:07 PM
  #8
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I feel the following will play in the NHL.

D

Petiot/Rome//Zizka/Gleason/Grebeshkov/Shefer in no particular order.

F

Kanko/Murray/Karlson/Boyle/Boyle/Tambellini/Brown/Barney/Pushkaryev/Guerin/Fedorov/Hogeboom/Lehoux in no particular


G

Chouinard/Munce

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04-18-2004, 02:10 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KING ELVI
Not signed or Euros who may never come over
Rome(just don't think they'll sign him imo)

If the Kings don't sign him, he will likely play for another team in the future. So once he will play the NHL IMO.

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04-18-2004, 02:35 PM
  #10
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So far, we have opinions ranging from 18 (the low) to 25 (the high) out of our 43 prospects making the NHL in one capacity or another.

If we take the average, it looks to me like we will have a better than 50% return on our lads making the NHL of the ones who are still in our system. Considering that we have lost many to trade (strbak,Anshankov,Lilja etc) who either are in the NHL or are on their way to having a grand shot at it. I would say that Al Murray has done a grand job.

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04-18-2004, 03:09 PM
  #11
Frolov 6'3
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Lets take a look at the NHL careers of the Kings draftees from between 1995-1999.

1995
#3 Aki Berg - 531 Games Played
#33 Donald MacLean - 29 GP
#50 Pavel Rosa - 36 GP
#59 Vladimir Tsyplakov - 331 GP
#118 Jason Morgan - 33 GP
#137 Igor Melyakov - 0
#157 Benoit Larose - 0
#163 Juha Vuorivirta - 0
#215 Brian Stewart - 0

1996
#30 Josh Green - 232 Games Played
#37 Marian Cisar - 73 GP
#57 Greg Phillips - 0
#84 Mikael Simons - 0
#96 Eric Belanger - 258 GP
#120 Jesse Black - 0
#123 Peter Hogan - 0
#190 Stephen Valiquette - 9 GP
#193 Kai Nurminen - 69 GP
#219 Sebastien Simard - 0

1997
#3 Olli Jokinen - 477 Games Played
#15 Matt Zultek - 0
#29 Scott Barney - 24 GP
#83 Joe Corvo - 122 GP
#99 Sean Blanchard - 0
#137 Richard Seeley - 0
#150 Jeff Katcher - 0
#193 Jay Kopischke - 0
#220 Konrad Brand - 0

1998
#21 Mathieu Biron - 201 Games Played
#46 Justin Papineau - 81 GP
#76 Alexei Volkov - 0
#103 Kip Brennan - 46 GP
#133 Joe Rullier - 0
#163 Tomas Zizka - 25 GP
#190 Tommi Hannus - 0
#217 Jim Henkel - 0
#248 Matthew Yeats - 5 GP

1999
#43 Andrei Shefer - 0
#74 Jason Crain - 0
#76 Frantisek Kaberle - 309 Games Played
#92 Cory Campbell - 0
#104 Brian McGrattan - 0
#125 Daniel Johansson - 0
#133 Jean-Francois Nogues - 0
#193 Kevin Baker - 0
#222 George Parros - 0
#250 Noah Clarke - 0

Red = still active


I don't have the numbers of the other teams but I think this is average at best, and that's putting it mildly.

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04-18-2004, 03:09 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punchy1
So far, we have opinions ranging from 18 (the low) to 25 (the high) out of our 43 prospects making the NHL in one capacity or another.

If we take the average, it looks to me like we will have a better than 50% return on our lads making the NHL of the ones who are still in our system. Considering that we have lost many to trade (strbak,Anshankov,Lilja etc) who either are in the NHL or are on their way to having a grand shot at it. I would say that Al Murray has done a grand job.
Al has done his job, now its Andy's turn to do his. Injuries this next season will not be an excuse, you have many tools, learn how to use them.

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04-18-2004, 03:18 PM
  #13
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How many of Frolov 6'3's stats are still playing for the Kings?
Belanger, Barney, Corvo, Ziska and Clarke. That's 1 each draft year.

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04-18-2004, 05:21 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KING ELVI
How many of Frolov 6'3's stats are still playing for the Kings?
Belanger, Barney, Corvo, Ziska and Clarke. That's 1 each draft year.

And how many of them actually have anything to do with A) this topic (topic shmopic right Fro?) and B) with any of the players on this list?

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04-18-2004, 05:36 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punchy1
And how many of them actually have anything to do with A) this topic (topic shmopic right Fro?) and B) with any of the players on this list?
That's not true punchy.

The point I was trying to make, we should try to keep things in perspective. How much I would like to see it different but a lot of the players you've listed won't make the NHL. With an average of 20-23 players we're pretty generous.

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04-18-2004, 05:55 PM
  #16
punchy1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3
That's not true punchy.

The point I was trying to make, we should try to keep things in perspective. How much I would like to see it different but a lot of the players you've listed won't make the NHL. With an average of 20-23 players we're pretty generous.

Sorry mate.

The point I would ask you to consider though is what does your position have to do with the players mentioned in the original list in this thread and in regards to our current scouting staff?

I also feel that since you are taking up to 99 as your cutoff that it almost entirely excludes your list from this topic.

Since 99 the Kings have come a long way in scouting and training depth and opportunities in the org. To me, I refuse to hold accountable the past for todays mistakes and vicky varcky.

I feel that since 00 that we have done a right brilliant job and would even say that since then is the golden age of kings prospects.

Also, you missed a few players on your listing who are still active. One of them is Joe Corvo.

If we follow your list though you see a steady progression of our scouts picking players who actually end up in the NHL. In 95 we had 5 of 9 make it to the NHL.
In 96 we had 5 of 9 make it.
In 97 we had 3 make it (four if you count call ups that didn't play)
In 98 we had 5 of 9 make it.
In 99 we have two make it so far and some who are just starting their pro careers so it will be a couple of year before we know what is what.

After that, the list goes up further and, we have more talent amoung the prospects on the lists.

Certainly you can't compare previous drafts to the ones we have had over the past four years can you? I mean, we have had some right smart drafts and have gotten allot better from the start.

That actually is the point of this thread in a way, look at how well we are doing now compared to our past. We used to have to watch the Wayne McBeans of the world struggle and fail and now we are close to a 50% rate of drafting players who see ice time in the NHL and are doing even better at picking the ones who will accomplish better than average things with those picks.


Your list only proves how much better a chance we have at drafting solid NHL caliber players, not the way you want it show as us being poor at it.

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04-18-2004, 06:20 PM
  #17
Frolov 6'3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punchy1
Sorry mate.

The point I would ask you to consider though is what does your position have to do with the players mentioned in the original list in this thread and in regards to our current scouting staff?

I also feel that since you are taking up to 99 as your cutoff that it almost entirely excludes your list from this topic.

Since 99 the Kings have come a long way in scouting and training depth and opportunities in the org. To me, I refuse to hold accountable the past for todays mistakes and vicky varcky.

I feel that since 00 that we have done a right brilliant job and would even say that since then is the golden age of kings prospects.

Also, you missed a few players on your listing who are still active. One of them is Joe Corvo.

If we follow your list though you see a steady progression of our scouts picking players who actually end up in the NHL. In 95 we had 5 of 9 make it to the NHL.
In 96 we had 5 of 9 make it.
In 97 we had 3 make it (four if you count call ups that didn't play)
In 98 we had 5 of 9 make it.
In 99 we have two make it so far and some who are just starting their pro careers so it will be a couple of year before we know what is what.

After that, the list goes up further and, we have more talent amoung the prospects on the lists.

Certainly you can't compare previous drafts to the ones we have had over the past four years can you? I mean, we have had some right smart drafts and have gotten allot better from the start.

That actually is the point of this thread in a way, look at how well we are doing now compared to our past. We used to have to watch the Wayne McBeans of the world struggle and fail and now we are close to a 50% rate of drafting players who see ice time in the NHL and are doing even better at picking the ones who will accomplish better than average things with those picks.


Your list only proves how much better a chance we have at drafting solid NHL caliber players, not the way you want it show as us being poor at it.
Yes you're right, it has nothing to do with our current scouting staff. However, we shouldn't think that there will be huge increase. I won't deny that the prospects we're having in our farm these days are a lot better than the ones back then but at the time we all thought Biron, Jokinen, Rosa, Zultek, Papineau etc. would become solid/great Kings players as well. It's easy afterwards, we all know what has happened with these players now.

Over five years we will see how many talented prospects on the list are playing in Europe, AHL etc. while you and I thought they would make the NHL. Besides, we shouldn't count the over-age prospects like Kaberle, Pirnes, Visnovsky and simular because 1. they were drafted to make an immediate impact and 2. the scouting staff knew what kind of players they got.

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