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Quit Fighting It Oilers, A Long Overdue Rebuild Should Be Upon Us

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Old
11-29-2009, 10:36 AM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narnia View Post
I call BS. The kings have been rebuilding for 10 years.
Uhh, no they havent. The rebuild started when Lombardi was hired.

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11-29-2009, 10:40 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Narnia View Post
I call BS. The kings have been rebuilding for 10 years.
2006 has been the start of the rebuild. That's when Lombardi came in and shipped off Demitra, picked up JJ, and the next year shipped off Norstrom to Dallas for multiple picks/prospects. It's been a rough 3 years (heck, Hickey was our #4 pick for the first year of suckage, personally I think that was a terrible pick) but it's now just starting to bear fruit.

Kings got really lucky having Doughty fill the void Vish left on his departure. The question for Edmonton is, who can fill that void if you trade Lubo away?

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11-29-2009, 10:42 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Tedi View Post
Exactly how do you condition your skull? Souray's could have been career ending and nothing could have prevented it. Unlucky more than anything...these guys are in shape.
Souray is the exception. He's been injury ridden throughout his career. The Oilers put out clauses in his contract for this reason.

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Originally Posted by Oiler Crude View Post
Another thing to consider too is, why do we have so many shoulder inguries with this team? I am starting to think it is the boards at Rexal, too stiff?
That is definitely something that should be asked/looked into.

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11-29-2009, 10:50 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Tedi View Post
Maybe Oilers mgmt. should consult you first, seeing as how you have all the answers. LA has yet to prove anything to anybody and doesn't the Smyth signing kind of negate Lombardi's whole philosophy. Doughty is a phenom and it was a remarkable pick up by the LAK, and put them in a position to trade away veteran dmen. Trading away Edmonton's current franchise dmen in Souray or Lubo isn't a good move considering there is no one to step into those roles. I wouldn't object to trading one and definitely some of our forwards, but I'm still hesitant to sink the ship on a whim. Turris and Filatov eh?...look no further than our current roster guy Patty O, solid Junior careers don't always translate to amazing NHL careers. It is a crap shoot at best.
Maybe they should since they're doing such a bang up job.

The Kings may not have proven anything to you but they're a far better team than the Oilers and are solidly in playoff contention. It should also be noted the Kings rebuild only started with the arrival of Lomabrdi from San Jose where he also built a pretty good team.

The signing of Smyth and Scuderi fir perfectly into Lombardi's rebuild strategy in that he jettisoned players whose salaries, age or skill set did not fit (see Visnovksy, Blake, O'Sullivan, Cammalleri etc) and replaced them with youngish character guys who fit the the plan.

Only when he was satisfied with his young core was he willing to start adding veteran players to make a push.

The Oilers have done this exactly backwards and have tied up tons of cap space in underperforming veterans while still looking for a core.


The results speak for themselves.

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Old
11-29-2009, 10:52 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by jbean View Post
When was the last time that we haven't sold out a home game? How long has our team been out of the playoffs? Our fan base can take a rebuild, if we lower the ticket prices a little bit we could still sell out every night with a team as good as the Leafs.
We are worse than the Leafs.

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11-29-2009, 10:55 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oiler Crude View Post
Another thing to consider too is, why do we have so many shoulder inguries with this team? I am starting to think it is the boards at Rexal, too stiff?
One other thing too. This was a problem in GM Place in years past and contributed to Al MacInnis's career ending (that and the lockout) during the 2003 playoffs.

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11-29-2009, 10:57 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
We are worse than the Leafs.
How do you feel about our bet now?

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11-29-2009, 10:58 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
We are worse than the Leafs.
If we were actually healthy, we'd be better, but in this state they're better.

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11-29-2009, 11:00 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
How do you feel about our bet now?
I feel good about the Nucks not winning the division. The Oilers arent going to finish ahead of anyone so Ive all but lost that bet. The sv % bet has me worried too. Its too bad that we didnt have a healthy team this year. That pretty much changes everything as far as the bets go.

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11-29-2009, 11:02 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
If we were actually healthy, we'd be better, but in this state they're better.
I dont disagree but we should be as bad as possible for the rest of the year. If we have a shot at Hall it would be foolish not to do everything possible to make it happen.

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11-29-2009, 11:03 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
I dont disagree but we should be as bad as possible for the rest of the year. If we have a shot at Hall it would be foolish not to do everything possible to make it happen.
Agreed. I'd shut down Horcoff (clearly playing hurt) and deal one of Souray or Visnovsky.

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11-29-2009, 11:05 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Agreed. I'd shut down Horcoff (clearly playing hurt) and deal one of Souray or Visnovsky.
Make our #1 pk unit O'Sullivan, Nilsson, Gilbert, and Horcoff on D.

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11-29-2009, 11:21 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
It doesn't take ten years if you already have some good pieces in the system.

Lombardi rebuilt the Kings in 3 years and they're playoff contenders.

The Oilers actually have better young players than Lombardi started with.
Ummm what?

Lombardi was hired in 06... Kopitar, Brown, Quick and Frolov were all in the organization before he got there.

I mean if you want to get technical, you could argue that the moves he botched when he first got to the club allowed him to draft Doughty, but I'm not sure that's much of a compliment. The only key young player he acquired with any foresight was Jack Johnson, and he hasn't even been that good.

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11-29-2009, 11:34 AM
  #89
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Maybe that was the entire plan?

Notice how Tambo didn't address any of our needs in the off season? Its evaluation time and shed fat contracts slowly time. Besides, a team that gets a lottery pick is not always a cellar dwellar the next year!

Tampa: Stamkos
Philly: JVR
etc etc.

Some teams just implode, without a plan, due to nature.... whatever. And end up with a great pick the next year. It would be a foolish business proposition to 'tank' a season. Let's just give it what we got, and if there is a deal we can't refuse out there - take it!

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11-29-2009, 11:34 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saskyoil View Post
Maybe that was the entire plan?

Notice how Tambo didn't address any of our needs in the off season? Its evaluation time and shed fat contracts slowly time. Besides, a team that gets a lottery pick is not always a cellar dwellar the next year!

Tampa: Stamkos
Philly: JVR
etc etc.

Some teams just implode, without a plan, due to nature.... whatever. And end up with a great pick the next year. It would be a foolish business proposition to 'tank' a season. Let's just give it what we got, and if there is a deal we can't refuse out there - take it!
Then why sign Khabibulin and Comrie?

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11-29-2009, 11:42 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
Ummm what?

Lombardi was hired in 06... Kopitar, Brown, Quick and Frolov were all in the organization before he got there.

I mean if you want to get technical, you could argue that the moves he botched when he first got to the club allowed him to draft Doughty, but I'm not sure that's much of a compliment. The only key young player he acquired with any foresight was Jack Johnson, and he hasn't even been that good.
Handzus 07
Loktionov 08
Purcell 07
Richardson 08
Simmonds 07
Smyth 09
Stoll 08
Williams 09
Doughty 08
Drewiske 08
Greene 08
Harrold 06
Johnson 07
Jones 09
O'Donnell 08
Scuderi 09
Ersberg 07

That's 17 current roster players brought in since Lombardi took over.

Looks like an extreme makeover to me.

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11-29-2009, 11:45 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
Handzus 07
Loktionov 08
Purcell 07
Richardson 08
Simmonds 07
Smyth 09
Stoll 08
Williams 09
Doughty 08
Drewiske 08
Greene 08
Harrold 06
Johnson 07
Jones 09
O'Donnell 08
Scuderi 09
Ersberg 07

That's 17 current roster players brought in since Lombardi took over.

Looks like an extreme makeover to me.
That's not what you said. You said Lombardi rebuilt the kings within 3 years and had fewer good young players than the Oilers did... which isn't true.

He didn't rebuild them within 3 years... he had a lot of good young talent to work with. And further to the point, it was a lot of his signings early that crippled the team enough to allow them to acquire players like Doughty in the first place.

That Kings rebuild was happening for 4 years before Lombardi took over.

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11-29-2009, 11:46 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
Handzus 07
Loktionov 08
Purcell 07
Richardson 08
Simmonds 07
Smyth 09
Stoll 08
Williams 09
Doughty 08
Drewiske 08
Greene 08
Harrold 06
Johnson 07
Jones 09
O'Donnell 08
Scuderi 09
Ersberg 07

That's 17 current roster players brought in since Lombardi took over.

Looks like an extreme makeover to me.
Maybe so, but other than Doughty that looks more like a retool instead of a rebuild.

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11-29-2009, 11:48 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
That's not what you said. You said Lombardi rebuilt the kings within 3 years and had fewer good young players than the Oilers did... which isn't true.

He didn't rebuild them within 3 years... he had a lot of good young talent to work with. And further to the point, it was a lot of his signings early that crippled the team enough to allow them to acquire players like Doughty in the first place.

That Kings rebuild was happening for 4 years before Lombardi took over.
I agree DB, the main pieces to the puzzle were already there except for Doughty. That said the fact is that he's drafted Doughty and Schenn in back to back years while also improving his club in the interim. For the most part that is kind of what I'd like to see Tambellini do.

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11-29-2009, 11:52 AM
  #95
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I was as hopeful as anyone when the season began, but this first quarter has been a cold shot of reality. This team isn't making the playoffs. An injury prone starting goalie without a quality back-up + soft one dimensional defense + a bunch of tiny playmakers up front = a big bag of suck. How did I ever convince myself that we had a shot at the playoffs this year? Blind faith, meet the voice of reason.

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11-29-2009, 11:58 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
That's not what you said. You said Lombardi rebuilt the kings within 3 years and had fewer good young players than the Oilers did... which isn't true.

He didn't rebuild them within 3 years... he had a lot of good young talent to work with. And further to the point, it was a lot of his signings early that crippled the team enough to allow them to acquire players like Doughty in the first place.

That Kings rebuild was happening for 4 years before Lombardi took over.
4 players are "a lot" of young talent?

Okay.

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11-29-2009, 11:59 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
I agree DB, the main pieces to the puzzle were already there except for Doughty. That said the fact is that he's drafted Doughty and Schenn in back to back years while also improving his club in the interim. For the most part that is kind of what I'd like to see Tambellini do.
Except he did it by signing bad contracts who ended up playing like **** (Cloutier, Handzus, Blake, Stuart, Nagy, Calder, Gauthier).

It really isn't much different than how the Oilers have gone about sucking... the Kings just got higher picks out of it.

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11-29-2009, 12:02 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
4 players are "a lot" of young talent?

Okay.
When it's those 4? Sure. One of them just happens to be the best player on the team. The other 2 have both scored 30 goals in one season. The 4th has played all but 2 games this year in net.

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11-29-2009, 12:08 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
When it's those 4? Sure. One of them just happens to be the best player on the team. The other 2 have both scored 30 goals in one season. The 4th has played all but 2 games this year in net.
Yeah, it's a nice base to start with for sure but it's how you build the team around a young core that makes a difference.

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11-29-2009, 12:14 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
Yeah, it's a nice base to start with for sure but it's how you build the team around a young core that makes a difference.
But again... that's not what you said.

You said Lombardi started out with fewer good young players than the Oilers have (which is false), and that he rebuilt the team in 3 years (also false). That rebuild happened several years before that with the drafting of Frolov, Brown, Kopitar and Quick. Fact of the matter is, Lombardi came in and has spent every season adding veteran players to the roster, and with the exception of this year, they all failed miseralbly.

Unless you are trying to tell me he signed these guys because he knew it would get them a good draft pick...

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