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could oiler fans handle a full rebuild?

View Poll Results: Could you handle a full rebuild
Yes--blow her up good and rebuild 105 68.63%
No 23 15.03%
Maybe 4 2.61%
Too tough to decide right 6 3.92%
lose horcoff and either Souray or Lubor 6 3.92%
lets waits till the new year before we hit the self destruct botton 9 5.88%
Voters: 153. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-30-2009, 04:58 AM
  #76
hemskysuncle
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People love the idea now because it is the "in" thing. Granted some major changes would be welcome...but tanking would never fly. Period.

Aside from the fact that the Oilers have some large contracts that put them near the cap, it is still a very young team and there is no reason to do a "full rebuild". If people claim they have the patience for a "full rebuild", they should have the patience to wait a few season for some of the ugly contracts to be shed. Although some will stay around, even losing a few will make a huge difference.

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Old
11-30-2009, 06:48 AM
  #77
jumptheshark
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What I find interesting is how many people say they would be behind a rebuild--but then name Lubor, Souray or someone vetren who is untouchable

that tells me either they don't understand the question or fail to realize that if we do a full rebuild all players over 30 should/should be traded partly for money but also by the time the oilers were competitive again--they would be ready to retire

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11-30-2009, 07:10 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
What I find interesting is how many people say they would be behind a rebuild--but then name Lubor, Souray or someone vetren who is untouchable

that tells me either they don't understand the question or fail to realize that if we do a full rebuild all players over 30 should/should be traded partly for money but also by the time the oilers were competitive again--they would be ready to retire
I don't think a full rebuild implicitly means getting rid of all vets, particularly on the backend. I would certainly keep a guy like Visnovsky. Two years in a row now his younger partner has taken big steps forward. I don't think it is a coincidence. Young defenseman need to be able to make mistakes but if you have someone who can cover for them and who can help take the pressure off they can learn without risking a total collapse in their confidence level.

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Old
11-30-2009, 08:11 AM
  #79
Jimmi Jenkins
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We could, the general fans who barely know their ***** from their elbows when it comes to any sports, would lose their minds in about a month.

So no, Oilers fans couldn't

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Old
11-30-2009, 11:31 AM
  #80
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It's quite the difference that a few months and 27 games can make

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=644199
50 of us, me being one of them, haven't changed our minds yet, just with all the losing, injuries and lack of star power on this team people are changing there minds now.

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11-30-2009, 11:33 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
What I find interesting is how many people say they would be behind a rebuild--but then name Lubor, Souray or someone vetren who is untouchable

that tells me either they don't understand the question or fail to realize that if we do a full rebuild all players over 30 should/should be traded partly for money but also by the time the oilers were competitive again--they would be ready to retire
rebuilding doesnt mean you move out all your vets so that your average age is 21. it means you move out most of the veterans while still keeping a few. St.Louis had kariya and tkachuk..... yes tkachuk was traded but he was re acquired while they were still building their core. i know that kariya and tkachuk are better than anyone we have but we still need to maintain 2 or 3 vets. which ones??? hopefully lubo maybe staios and maybe we resign pisani for a million. outside of that GUILLOTINE.

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11-30-2009, 11:34 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Starscream View Post
50 of us, me being one of them, haven't changed our minds yet, just with all the losing, injuries and lack of star power on this team people are changing there minds now.
so what if we had heatley and were losing???? hmmm?

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11-30-2009, 11:35 AM
  #83
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so what if we had heatley and were losing???? hmmm?

part of this boards problem is asking what ifs?

lets deal with the facts and start with that

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11-30-2009, 11:35 AM
  #84
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I voted yes as in myself could handle a full rebuild. As for others I am not so sure.

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11-30-2009, 11:41 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
part of this boards problem is asking what ifs?

lets deal with the facts and start with that
well pretty sure blowing up the ship and rebuilding is a pretty big WHAT IF.

cause right now i really dont think tambo and co. get the picture. there is no core on this team. and the players we believe should be, either aren't playing like it, or are playing ok but not to what they are making because of bad contracts.

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11-30-2009, 11:48 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
What I find interesting is how many people say they would be behind a rebuild--but then name Lubor, Souray or someone vetren who is untouchable

that tells me either they don't understand the question or fail to realize that if we do a full rebuild all players over 30 should/should be traded partly for money but also by the time the oilers were competitive again--they would be ready to retire
Can you name a team that has been iced without some players being 30+?

Rebuild or not, you need a few vets to help bridge the gap while the younger players learn what it takes to play in the league and become pro's.

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11-30-2009, 11:50 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by OilerzFRLife View Post
well pretty sure blowing up the ship and rebuilding is a pretty big WHAT IF.

cause right now i really dont think tambo and co. get the picture. there is no core on this team. and the players we believe should be, either aren't playing like it, or are playing ok but not to what they are making because of bad contracts.
We just need Hall or Seguin. All this hyerbole about having to have a plan ... the Islanders were a gong show the last few years. See how everything magically gets better very quickly after Tavares? They may even make the playoffs this year.

Get the player first. Cap stuff is irrelevant as the Oilers are not going to build through UFA-ville anyway.

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11-30-2009, 11:59 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
Can you name a team that has been iced without some players being 30+?

Rebuild or not, you need a few vets to help bridge the gap while the younger players learn what it takes to play in the league and become pro's.
Yes but in terms of the Oilers situation it is guys like Souray and Vish that will get you a good return and with their contracts they must be moved to create cap space and assets. We are gonna be stuck with vets like Horcoff to teach the young ones. Might not be a bad situation as he could drop to constantly playing on the 3rd line in a rebuild.

The soonest we will be able to get rid of that contract is the deadline of the 2nd last year. Or the summer prior of that year via buyout.

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11-30-2009, 12:09 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
We just need Hall or Seguin. All this hyerbole about having to have a plan ... the Islanders were a gong show the last few years. See how everything magically gets better very quickly after Tavares? They may even make the playoffs this year.

Get the player first. Cap stuff is irrelevant as the Oilers are not going to build through UFA-ville anyway.
agreed. besides keeping horcoffs contract around sucks but at least it takes the pressure off hall or seguin asssuming we get either one. between gags horcs and one of hall or seguin both can develop while horcoff plays out the rest of his deal.

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Old
11-30-2009, 12:10 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
Yes but in terms of the Oilers situation it is guys like Souray and Vish that will get you a good return and with their contracts they must be moved to create cap space and assets. We are gonna be stuck with vets like Horcoff to teach the young ones. Might not be a bad situation as he could drop to constantly playing on the 3rd line in a rebuild.

The soonest we will be able to get rid of that contract is the deadline of the 2nd last year. Or the summer prior of that year via buyout.
My point was not to keep them all, or even any of the big guys for that matter if the circumstances/deals are the right kind (and no simply moving vets for picks is not necessarily the right kind of deal).

What ever deals they may end up making, it has to make sense in terms of the team moving in a definitive direction.

The way I see it, there isn't a single player on this team that should be considered untouchable but at the same time, if a high quality player is moved, it doesn't automatically signal a need to gut the team of each and every one of them.

There is a real opportunity here for Tambellini to set this team up moving forward. Although, personally, I don't have any faith in him having the forsight or ability to do what needs to be done.

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11-30-2009, 12:11 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
Can you name a team that has been iced without some players being 30+?

Rebuild or not, you need a few vets to help bridge the gap while the younger players learn what it takes to play in the league and become pro's.
You find veteran role players for a whole lot less than Souray, Visnovsky and Horcoff.

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11-30-2009, 12:11 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
Yes but in terms of the Oilers situation it is guys like Souray and Vish that will get you a good return and with their contracts they must be moved to create cap space and assets. We are gonna be stuck with vets like Horcoff to teach the young ones. Might not be a bad situation as he could drop to constantly playing on the 3rd line in a rebuild.

The soonest we will be able to get rid of that contract is the deadline of the 2nd last year. Or the summer prior of that year via buyout.
i have a feeling horc could be bought out at that time. ill give the man credit though he works hard to try to live up to his end of the deal. we gave dustin penner and offer sheet at over 4 mil a year and he shows up fat up until this yaer.

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11-30-2009, 12:13 PM
  #93
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Horcoff wouldn't be bad centering a line between say MPS and Eberle or something. He could help those kids out and they in turn could help his offense out. Hall can play with Hemsky

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11-30-2009, 12:13 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
You find veteran role players for a whole lot less than Souray, Visnovsky and Horcoff.
well why would we want more cap space anyway?? in a rebuilding phase you dont spend any money. u draft well and let young players develop so holding onto a player like visnovsky who is playing well and mentoring defenceman even if he is at 7 mil, is worth it to me.

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11-30-2009, 12:16 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Horcoff wouldn't be bad centering a line between say MPS and Eberle or something. He could help those kids out and they in turn could help his offense out. Hall can play with Hemsky
really? i think hemsky the passer would be with eberle the sniper. maybe horcs or gags in the middle. put the big body in MPS with hall and penner. not to change topic but im interested in whether anyone thinks the oilers will resign hemsky after this deal runs up and he wants 6-7 mil a year for his supposed 'ppg' pace he will live up to. judging by my comments you can probably tell im not a huge hemmer fan but im learning to live with the 4 mil..... but not 6 or 7. id take dustin over hemmer if u take this years dustin penner against any ales hemsky in any season.

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11-30-2009, 12:21 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
You find veteran role players for a whole lot less than Souray, Visnovsky and Horcoff.
Yup, and Horcoff is here for the long haul no matter what.

However, I don't think it's such a bad plan to build your forwards and defence separately and in looking at the defence I would have no problem keeping Vishnovsky or Souray. My preferenced would be Vishnovsky.

Aging role player or aging star player, they can both serve the same purpose during an overhaul and keeping him isn't going to be the difference between being in overhaul mode and compete mode. A year down the road, after hopefully another part of the puzzle becoming clearer, you move the other one.

Re-building doesn't necessarily mean tearing it all down at once, it's as much about how you time moving your assets as anything.

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11-30-2009, 12:24 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
Yup, and Horcoff is here for the long haul no matter what.

However, I don't think it's such a bad plan to build your forwards and defence separately and in looking at the defence I would have no problem keeping Vishnovsky or Souray. My preferenced would be Vishnovsky.

Aging role player or aging star player, they can both serve the same purpose during an overhaul and keeping him isn't going to be the difference between being in overhaul mode and compete mode. A year down the road, after hopefully another part of the puzzle becoming clearer, you move the other one.

Re-building doesn't necessarily mean tearing it all down at once, it's as much about how you time moving your assets as anything.
a few years ago when it was so easy to move players the 'tearing apart' phase of rebuilding could be done fast and easily. teams had no problem taking on fair amounts of salary compared to now. chicagos timing worked out really well. its a shame it didnt for us. cause ours is going to be a lot longer of a wait.

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11-30-2009, 12:26 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by OilerzFRLife View Post
a few years ago when it was so easy to move players the 'tearing apart' phase of rebuilding could be done fast and easily. teams had no problem taking on fair amounts of salary compared to now. chicagos timing worked out really well. its a shame it didnt for us. cause ours is going to be a lot longer of a wait.
Errr ... Chicago didn't really do anything but suck really bad and got Toews and Kane and Keith as a result.

If anything they spent a crap ton of money on guys like Huet, Khabby, Havlat, Campbell, during the rebuild phase rather than shedding salary. They spent again last summer on Hossa.

A lot of these rebuilds if you really study them are simply just sucking like crap for a while and then once you amass enough talent you add a veteran or two. There is no genius master plan behind them.

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11-30-2009, 12:32 PM
  #99
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Errr ... Chicago didn't really do anything but suck really bad and got Toews and Kane and Keith as a result.

If anything they spent a crap ton of money on guys like Huet, Khabby, Havlat, Campbell, during the rebuild phase rather than shedding salary. They spent again last summer on Hossa.

A lot of these rebuilds if you really study them are simply just sucking like crap for a while and then once you amass enough talent you add a veteran or two. There is no genius master plan behind them.
i agree it doesnt take a genius to put a team together but you know what it does take? balls. CAHONEEES. especially in a market like edmonton. sure in chicago if the team sucks nobody will show up to games but now that the team is awesome its woohoo hawks. if the oilers fielded the falcons they would still sell alot of tickets. this being said our patience is extremely short and it takes a ballsy GM to rebuild over 3 or 4 years in a firebed like edmonton. and to be honest when i look at Tambellini he looks like a coward. if he saw his friends getting mowed down in machine gun fire he would jump back into the trench.

does tambo not remind eerily of k lowe?? like personality and even looks a little bit..... it is scary.

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11-30-2009, 12:39 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by OilerzFRLife View Post
a few years ago when it was so easy to move players the 'tearing apart' phase of rebuilding could be done fast and easily. teams had no problem taking on fair amounts of salary compared to now. chicagos timing worked out really well. its a shame it didnt for us. cause ours is going to be a lot longer of a wait.
I refuse to believe that any potential wait would only be due to league circumstances. I think the bigger hang up is the GM's refusing to see the signs on the wall and waiting or wanting the deals that will help them immediately.

If Tambelling had any sense at all, he would get out in front of it and be the first guy to pull the plug instead of waiting until another half dozen GM's see the light of day and muddy the waters.

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