i am not convinced yet with this howard thing. i saw a lot of rebounds yesterday. the most of them were neccessary. but except that howard was better then i dared to do him.
people said exactly what i posted, and then some. i'm not going to do any digging for it, they know who they are and they know what they said. suffice it to say, it was a severe overreaction.
i'm not overreacting to a couple of good games for him, and like RWF said, this is by no means an indication that he's a solution to all of our problems in net for the next decade (or even 50 games.) i'm merely pointing out that those who thought he didn't have good, NHL-quality goaltending in him, are dead wrong.
Howard needs to prove he's a consistent NHL goaltender. He was terribly inconsistent at the AHL level. He has been solid his past three starts. The three before that he was mediocre. In his first 7 appearances he varied between solid and porous. His rebound control is still problematic, but he has avoided allowing too many charmin soft goals on the initial shot.
I think very few people have said Howard did not have NHL quality goaltending in him. This is a league where Steve Valiquette, Alex Auld and Vesa Toskala all have a job, among others. I think the larger concern about Howard was if he was going to be anything more than a career backup.
To date, he has had some games where glimmers of potential beyond that have been evident. In others, not so much. His ability to become a more consistent goaltender will be the largest factor in determining whether or not he's going to be anything more than a future journeyman, a Legace-lite if you will.
Howard needs to prove he's a consistent NHL goaltender. He was terribly inconsistent at the AHL level. He has been solid his past three starts. The three before that he was mediocre. In his first 7 appearances he varied between solid and porous. His rebound control is still problematic, but he has avoided allowing too many charmin soft goals on the initial shot.
I think very few people have said Howard did not have NHL quality goaltending in him. This is a league where Steve Valiquette, Alex Auld and Vesa Toskala all have a job, among others. I think the larger concern about Howard was if he was going to be anything more than a career backup.
To date, he has had some games where glimmers of potential beyond that have been evident. In others, not so much. His ability to become a more consistent goaltender will be the largest factor in determining whether or not he's going to be anything more than a future journeyman, a Legace-lite if you will.
That's an exaggeration. Howard did battle some consistency problems, but he wasn't "terribly inconsistent" outside of maybe a month or two in his first pro season. If Howard were truly "terribly inconsistent" then he wouldn't be in Detroit right now. End of story.
Howard was mildly inconsistent, alternating between flashes of a sure NHL starter / possible All Star, and a borderline NHL / AHL player. He's had a couple of rough games for the Wings, but his player overall has been superior to Osgood's. 'nuff said.
I disagree. Look at his month by month numbers in every one of his AHL seasons.
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Howard was mildly inconsistent, alternating between flashes of a sure NHL starter / possible All Star, and a borderline NHL / AHL player.
Speaking of exaggerations...
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He's had a couple of rough games for the Wings, but his player overall has been superior to Osgood's. 'nuff said.
His past three starts have been solid, no question. His previous three starts weren't, in aggregate. Let's see which three games is the harbinger of his future play. I hope it's the latter, but I fear it is the former.
My previous comment wasn't really directed squarely at you but more like this never ending *****fest about the goalies among Wings fans.
I think some of you are taking things way too 'personal' when it comes to our goalies. It looks as if there is no middle ground but just two extremes. what was that line in StarWars 'only the sith deals w/ extremes'?
I've said alot of dumb things during the games so I shouldn't be the one talking about sensible things but....this is exactly what I meant. Some of you are overreacting on overreacting fans. So in a sense, it's just about the guys that share similar traits but just different ideas.
As for if Howard has it in him, it remains to be seen and I wish I'm 'dead wrong' about it. No offence to you jacK or anyone in Howard's camp.
i wasn't specifically talking about you either, i don't remember who exactly said the things i remember reading, only that they were said.
and i don't think there's been 2 extremes in the debate. (OT, i remember using the same Sith quote when i was new here... i'mma have to dig that one up for giggles.) there's been an extreme "Howie sucks, and needs to be stuffed in a suitcase and sent one-way to Budapest", and there's been a more rational "give him 30-40 games to round into form, then judge him and move accordingly." nobody here has been screaming from the mountain tops that he's our savior and #35 should be in the rafters next to #19, but there's plenty of people that have tied ankle weights to his career and threw it into the ocean abyss.
i also know there there have been subtle skeptics and dissenters, and that's fine, everyone here should be skeptical, he's still an unknown quantity. it's the blindly extreme dissent/hate that has been the loudest and needed a gut-check, and Howie has provided that.
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD
Howard needs to prove he's a consistent NHL goaltender. He was terribly inconsistent at the AHL level. He has been solid his past three starts. The three before that he was mediocre. In his first 7 appearances he varied between solid and porous. His rebound control is still problematic, but he has avoided allowing too many charmin soft goals on the initial shot.
I think very few people have said Howard did not have NHL quality goaltending in him. This is a league where Steve Valiquette, Alex Auld and Vesa Toskala all have a job, among others. I think the larger concern about Howard was if he was going to be anything more than a career backup.
To date, he has had some games where glimmers of potential beyond that have been evident. In others, not so much. His ability to become a more consistent goaltender will be the largest factor in determining whether or not he's going to be anything more than a future journeyman, a Legace-lite if you will.
agreed, for the most part. he needs to prove some things, but he's got to get the chance to do so. the most boisterous of his doubters didn't want him to have that chance after 2-3 shaky early starts...
you didn't think he deserved a roster spot w/ his inconsistent AHL career. i know you didn't (don't) like the "give him some NHL starts, then we'll know what we've got" argument, but that's exactly what the Wings are doing... and it seems to be working just fine. nice to see you've come around to the "he needs prove he can be a consistent NHL goalie", an extension of the "give him some NHL starts, then we'll know what we've got" side of things
you didn't think he deserved a roster spot w/ his inconsistent AHL career.
That's factually incorrect.
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i know you didn't (don't) like the "give him some NHL starts, then we'll know what we've got" argument, but that's exactly what the Wings are doing... and it seems to be working just fine.
I disagree. I think the Wings knew what Howard was, and his time is simply reinforcing that. The people that don't know, namely us, are the ones who are learning more as we go because we are seeing him for, in many cases, the first time.
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nice to see you've come around to the "he needs prove he can be a consistent NHL goalie", an extension of the "give him some NHL starts, then we'll know what we've got" side of things
My position on Howard hasn't changed at all, really. I thought he was an inconsistent AHL goaltender, and that the consistency he could bring to the next level would either doom or save him. He was clearly capable of dominant play at the AHL level, as evidenced by him reaching that level for 1-2 months each AHL season, and that means he's certainly good enough to be at least an NHL backup. Again, Howard's flaw is that for every one of those fantastic months he'd put up 1 or 2 mediocre ones.
I think given the Wings cap situation they couldn't have afforded to keep Conklin, who even the most jaded Howard supporter (so, you ) would agree was the superior option as a backup. But, given the aforementioned cap situation, the Wings either had to bring Howard up or Quincey him. I didn't (and don't) have a problem with that line of thought, much like I didn't (and don't) have a problem with the Wings similar decisions on Hossa, Sammy and Hudler.
Honestly, unless Howard absolutely blows the skirt of every Wings exec up right over their heads I think it's barely 50-50 he's a Wing past his current contract, and only then if he signs for Osgood money, at most. There's too much depth behind him and Larsson's play in GR this year (so far, anyway) has been positively dynamite.
if it wasn't stated, it was implied, but i'll take your word for it.
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I disagree. I think the Wings knew what Howard was, and his time is simply reinforcing that. The people that don't know, namely us, are the ones who are learning more as we go because we are seeing him for, in many cases, the first time.
then why all the Jake McCraken, Nick Pannoni, etc.. guff?
even with a less-than-impressive AHL resume, some of us thought Howard was worth a good look. but when it's suggested that the AHL isn't necessarily an indicator you're always there with an unctuous "can't believe the Wings don't call up Ryan Oulahen to solve our scoring problems... ya never know, he COULD score 50 goals."
we don't want every Joe Schmoe AHLer to get a cup of coffee; we want guys we think [that the Wings think] can huck it to get a legitimate shot to prove themselves.
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My position on Howard hasn't changed at all, really. I thought he was an inconsistent AHL goaltender, and that the consistency he could bring to the next level would either doom or save him. He was clearly capable of dominant play at the AHL level, as evidenced by him reaching that level for 1-2 months each AHL season, and that means he's certainly good enough to be at least an NHL backup. Again, Howard's flaw is that for every one of those fantastic months he'd put up 1 or 2 mediocre ones.
I think given the Wings cap situation they couldn't have afforded to keep Conklin, who even the most jaded Howard supporter (so, you ) would agree was the superior option as a backup. But, given the aforementioned cap situation, the Wings either had to bring Howard up or Quincey him. I didn't (and don't) have a problem with that line of thought, much like I didn't (and don't) have a problem with the Wings similar decisions on Hossa, Sammy and Hudler.
Honestly, unless Howard absolutely blows the skirt of every Wings exec up right over their heads I think it's barely 50-50 he's a Wing past his current contract, and only then if he signs for Osgood money, at most. There's too much depth behind him and Larsson's play in GR this year (so far, anyway) has been positively dynamite.
¶1 - check.
¶2 - i'm not a jaded supporter, or even necessarily a supporter. i just think he deserved a shot (and by shot i mean more than 2-3 games.) and i'd agree Conks probably would've been a better option at backup, this year. however, i don't think burying/Quinceying Jimmy for one year of respectable backup-to-1B goaltending made any sense.
¶3 - unless Howie nearly single-handedly leads us on deep playoff runs, Ozzie money is the absolute max i see him getting. i do see him with us for at least 1 more contract if he can slightly improve on the +.900sv% & 2.5gaa he's sporting (anywhere from 1-3 years.) i think it'll be an 'open' competition w/ Larsson when Ozzie's gone. one of those things where Howie will have home-field, and Larsson will have to outplay him by quite a bit to take the job.
This season is very confusing. It seems when the DRW want to play good Red Wing hockey they do. But some days they can't turn on that switch. This was one of those games where the switch was on.
