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Old
11-30-2009, 12:04 PM
  #26
SuperUke99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
I love this argument.

So Osgood is better than Luongo, Miller, Lundquist, Nabokov?

Matt Cooke is also better than Ovechkin?
None of the above that you listed are even close to comparables meatball.


Heatley and Staal are comparable in age and contract $$$.

Staal is a leader and stanley cup champion, Heatley is a soft goal scorer who never been able to lead the Senators to the promise land and will choke along with Big Joe in the post season this year in SJ.

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Old
11-30-2009, 12:06 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Tommy35 View Post
Doesn't matter, Heatley's a princess., Stall isn't, so Stall is better
The funny thing is how you spelled his name.

Very good attention to detail as this year is playing like a: STALL
Most years when he is on top of his game he is known as: STAAL

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Old
11-30-2009, 12:06 PM
  #28
chris11inter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperUke99 View Post
None of the above that you listed are even close to comparables meatball.


Heatley and Staal are comparable in age and contract $$$.

Staal is a leader and stanley cup champion, Heatley is a soft goal scorer who never been able to lead the Senators to the promise land and will choke along with Big Joe in the post season this year in SJ.
However in the meantime Heatley will lead his team to the playoffs once again as Staal leads his team to the golf course.

Are you laying your blame soley on Heatley for not winning a stanley cup? Probably has nothing to do with the outstanding goaltending that organization had year after year.

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Old
11-30-2009, 12:07 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
That's fine, we both value the player differently. Don't have to be rude to the person suggesting the proposal.
How was i rude man? Where do you get that from? Do you really think that Lubo for Staal is even close to a fair proposal, be realistic.

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Old
11-30-2009, 12:08 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperUke99 View Post
None of the above that you listed are even close to comparables meatball.


Heatley and Staal are comparable in age and contract $$$.

Staal is a leader and stanley cup champion, Heatley is a soft goal scorer who never been able to lead the Senators to the promise land and will choke along with Big Joe in the post season this year in SJ.
None of those goalies are comparable? They are all the starting goalies of their respective teams. You brought up the ****** argument and I flattened it.

Heatley was in the finals with the Senators. It's not like Staal singlehandedly led the Canes to the finals. Ward played pretty fricken solid in the 2nd and 3rd round. Healey is a primadonna and that is a big knock on him over Staal but judging by pure talent, Heatley is a better player imo.

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Old
11-30-2009, 12:10 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
How was i rude man? Where do you get that from? Do you really think that Lubo for Staal is even close to a fair proposal, be realistic.
Just your comment about keep dreamin. The OP has already stated that the proposed deal wouldn't get it done straight up and the Oilers would need to add from their side. But if the Oilers were to make a serious pitch I can see Tamby, KLowe and co making a serious pitch centered around Lubo. Doubt it would get done from Carolinas side, but that is where Lowe and Tamby's heads would be.

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Old
11-30-2009, 12:10 PM
  #32
CupofOil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
None of those goalies are comparable? They are all the starting goalies of their respective teams. You brought up the ****** argument and I flattened it.

Heatley was in the finals with the Senators. It's not like Staal singlehandedly led the Canes to the finals. Ward played pretty fricken solid in the 2nd and 3rd round. Healey is a primadonna and that is a big knock on him over Staal but judging by pure talent, Heatley is a better player imo.
That's fine if you believe that Heatley is a better player but Staal unquestionably holds more value around the league in a trade situation, that's not even a debate.

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Old
11-30-2009, 12:12 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
Just your comment about keep dreamin. The OP has already stated that the proposed deal wouldn't get it done straight up and the Oilers would need to add from their side. But if the Oilers were to make a serious pitch I can see Tamby, KLowe and co making a serious pitch centered around Lubo. Doubt it would get done from Carolinas side, but that is where Lowe and Tamby's heads would be.
No doubt that Lubo would be a centerpiece but the Oilers would have to add a lot in addition to Lubo for Carolina to consider it.

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Old
11-30-2009, 12:12 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
That's fine if you believe that Heatley is a better player but Staal unquestionably holds more value around the league in a trade situation, that's not even a debate.
Huh.
I must have missed that GM poll.

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Old
11-30-2009, 12:13 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
That's fine if you believe that Heatley is a better player but Staal unquestionably holds more value around the league in a trade situation, that's not even a debate.

Sorry I forgot I was not on HFBoards and I was instead on HFNHLGMs.

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Old
11-30-2009, 12:13 PM
  #36
chris11inter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
How was i rude man? Where do you get that from? Do you really think that Lubo for Staal is even close to a fair proposal, be realistic.
I think Staal at 8.25 Million until 2015 with the cap coming down next year is pretty terrible contract.

With that terrible contract his trade value is much much lower than what it would be at say 6.5 Million per year.

So where Lubo may not be a fair trade- I would say it's a lot closer than you think. Lubo & Cogs or Lubo & a couple picks (2nd or 3rds) is not far away.

Let me reassure you the best trade the Sharks could get for Ehroff is two players who will never suit up in the NHL....

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Old
11-30-2009, 12:13 PM
  #37
SuperUke99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
None of those goalies are comparable? They are all the starting goalies of their respective teams. You brought up the ****** argument and I flattened it.

Heatley was in the finals with the Senators. It's not like Staal singlehandedly led the Canes to the finals. Ward played pretty fricken solid in the 2nd and 3rd round. Healey is a primadonna and that is a big knock on him over Staal but judging by pure talent, Heatley is a better player imo.
They are definately comparable skill wise but Staal has value of being a facoff winner and great two way player. Regardless the only issue for us is that we dont have the assets to get either one of them.

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Old
11-30-2009, 12:14 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
No doubt that Lubo would be a centerpiece but the Oilers would have to add a lot in addition to Lubo for Carolina to consider it.
Again I don't think it would have to be ALOT as that contract has negative value imo.

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Old
11-30-2009, 12:16 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperUke99 View Post
They are definately comparable skill wise but Staal has value of being a facoff winner and great two way player. Regardless the only issue for us is that we dont have the assets to get either one of them.
What? We had the assets and had Heatley. He just didn't want us. Where do you people come up with this stuff?

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Old
11-30-2009, 12:16 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy View Post
Huh.
I must have missed that GM poll.
Lets see.......
Heatley has all the baggage while Staal is one of the centerpieces and leaders of an overachieving Carolina team.
Staal is a Center while Heatley is a Winger
Staal is younger so he hasn't even hit his prime years yet while Heatley might very well be hitting the latter part of his prime.
Contracts are not too different
Hmmm..... I wonder who holds more value


Last edited by CupofOil: 11-30-2009 at 12:22 PM.
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Old
11-30-2009, 12:19 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris11inter View Post
I think Staal at 8.25 Million until 2015 with the cap coming down next year is pretty terrible contract.

With that terrible contract his trade value is much much lower than what it would be at say 6.5 Million per year.

So where Lubo may not be a fair trade- I would say it's a lot closer than you think. Lubo & Cogs or Lubo & a couple picks (2nd or 3rds) is not far away.

Let me reassure you the best trade the Sharks could get for Ehroff is two players who will never suit up in the NHL....

I'm sorry but you can't compare the Erhoff and Staal situations and i'm just saying that Carolina will ask for more than just Lubo+Cogs or Lubo+a couple of non first round picks If Lubo was 3-4 years younger than maybe but he's 33 now and carries a pretty hefty cap hit of his own so his value might not be as high as you think.

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Old
11-30-2009, 12:20 PM
  #42
SuperUke99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
Again I don't think it would have to be ALOT as that contract has negative value imo.
How is it Negative? Paying Lubo (a support player) $7MM is negative, not your franchise player that is 25. Lowe got schooled by the Kings and in no way would Carolina even think about this. My farts have more thought put into them than this trade proposal.

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Old
11-30-2009, 12:21 PM
  #43
SuperUke99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Lets see.......
Heatley has all the baggage while Staal was one of the centerpieces and leaders of an overachieving Carolina team.
Staal is a Center while Heatley is a Winger
Staal is younger so he hasn't even hit his prime years yet while Heatley might very well be hitting the latter part of his prime.
Contracts are not too different
Hmmm..... I wonder who holds more value
One word would sum up that poll. CANCER!

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Old
11-30-2009, 12:22 PM
  #44
CupofOil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperUke99 View Post
How is it Negative? Paying Lubo (a support player) $7MM is negative, not your franchise player that is 25. Lowe got schooled by the Kings and in no way would Carolina even think about this. My farts have more thought put into them than this trade proposal.
Lubo's cap hit is $5.6 mil

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Old
11-30-2009, 12:24 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperUke99 View Post
How is it Negative? Paying Lubo (a support player) $7MM is negative, not your franchise player that is 25. Lowe got schooled by the Kings and in no way would Carolina even think about this. My farts have more thought put into them than this trade proposal.
Wow I didn't think you could get anymore ridiculous but you do.

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Old
11-30-2009, 12:25 PM
  #46
SuperUke99
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Lubo's cap hit is $5.6 mil
Yup.

7.000 7.000 6.000 5.000 3.000

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Old
11-30-2009, 12:30 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by SuperUke99 View Post
They are definately comparable skill wise but Staal has value of being a facoff winner and great two way player. Regardless the only issue for us is that we dont have the assets to get either one of them.
Some numbers to consider when evaluating Staal:

Faceoff win percentage: 08/09: 45.3%, 07/08: 44.5%, 06/07: 45.2%, 05/06: 42.6%.

Hits: 08/09: 61 (Patrick Eaves had 134...), 07/08: 99 (in comparison, Cole had 186), 06/07: 77 (less than Justin Williams...), 05/06: 43.

Average stats for last 4 seasons: GP 82, G 38.25, A 43.5, P 81.75, +/- -1, SH% 12.39, PM 62.25

He scores and makes plays, but doesn't win faceoffs, doesn't hit as much as you would expect, and is a career - player. At $8.25 million a season cap hit, I'd rather pass on Eric Staal.

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Old
11-30-2009, 12:32 PM
  #48
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Horcoff has to be included in any type of deal for Staal.

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Old
11-30-2009, 12:35 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tornado88 View Post
Some numbers to consider when evaluating Staal:

Faceoff win percentage: 08/09: 45.3%, 07/08: 44.5%, 06/07: 45.2%, 05/06: 42.6%.

Hits: 08/09: 61 (Patrick Eaves had 134...), 07/08: 99 (in comparison, Cole had 186), 06/07: 77 (less than Justin Williams...), 05/06: 43.

Average stats for last 4 seasons: GP 82, G 38.25, A 43.5, P 81.75, +/- -1, SH% 12.39, PM 62.25

He scores and makes plays, but doesn't win faceoffs, doesn't hit as much as you would expect, and is a career - player. At $8.25 million a season cap hit, I'd rather pass on Eric Staal.
Stats mean nothing to some poster. They have watched games and know what's what. Granted sure Staal may be a better player blah, blah. But it is a lot closer than these guys are making it sound. That contract defintiely hurts when trying to trade him.

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Old
11-30-2009, 12:35 PM
  #50
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Carolina doesn't deal Staal, there's no point.

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