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Top Paring Defenceman to Vancouver

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Old
12-02-2009, 02:07 AM
  #101
8BostonRocker24
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Originally Posted by CAPiTA View Post
I don't see how I'm a bigot at all. And btw, the fans have spoken:

My Poll
You just proved his point by asking the people who see the world threw "blue and green glasses".

Go ask that on the polls board and see what the reaction is.

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Old
12-02-2009, 03:23 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
it's not about rebuilding teams and just dealing within the division.

Lowe/Tambellini and Gillis hate each other. Lowe has already said he'd never discuss a trade with Gillis... Tambellini ripped Gillis when he left the Canucks organization as well... there is bad blood there, and it's already been said that they would never deal with each other.

So there's no such thing as "normal circumstances" when dealing with these teams... you will not see these teams negotiate a deal until Gillis or Lowe & Tambellini are no longer part of their respective organizations.

IIRC, the last time these teams actually made a deal (not including minor league players) was Slegr/Oksuita, back in the mid 90s... don't expect a trade between these teams anytime soon.
Then Lowe and Tambellini should be fired. If any GM/Coach lets personal feelings get in the way of bettering the team they should be fired and castrated

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Old
12-02-2009, 03:38 AM
  #103
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Edler's pretty much untouchable unless it's for Doughty or Bogosian or whatever.

Anyway our defense isn't too bad right now. I think the team just needs time to get their groove going after all those injuries.

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12-02-2009, 03:49 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Britton View Post
The Canucks have zero need for someone like Kaberle, they have the offensive guys already. What we need is someone who can play the tough 5v5 and PK minutes. Hamhuis is a guy that comes immediately to mind but I'm not sure what it would take to get him.
Hamhuis is alright but it wouldn't be that big an upgrade to warrant the price. The Canucks have lacked a real top pairing Dman for years and its been their biggest downfall.

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12-02-2009, 04:50 AM
  #105
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I would love if we could somehow get Michalek or Enstrom and resign Mitchell for next year.

Some combination of...

Ehrhoff - Mitchell
Edler - Enstrom/Michalek
Salo - Bieksa

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Old
12-02-2009, 07:15 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonhui View Post
actually, peter sarno was traded from oilers to canucks back in 02 or 03
as I said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
IIRC, the last time these teams actually made a deal (not including minor league players) was Slegr/Oksuita, back in the mid 90s... don't expect a trade between these teams anytime soon.
Sarno played 1 1/2 seasons for the Moose... never dressed for the Canucks.

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Old
12-02-2009, 03:42 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by pmxc12873 View Post
Right...I'm out of line...

Yet Vancouver thinks they can throw a # 4 in Bieksa, a #6 in O'Brien and a constant scratch in Rypien...

For a 22 year old Staal - who's a potential top 3 guy.... Voros (who's a better Rypien) and Rosival - overpaid, but a 30+ point defenceman.

So to recap...
Staal - 22 year old leading his Dmen in ice time per game - O'Brien and a 2nd
Rosival = Bieksa
Voros > Rypien

Thats sounds just right....
No actually it doesn't there is no chance in hell that Rosival has more trade value them Bieksa,Rosvial is a 30 point defenceman that makes 5 million he doesn't even deserve 3 million IMO.But on the other hand Bieksa a 40-45 point tough as nails defenceman who makes only 3.75 million which he deserves,there aren't many of those defenceman in the game,Ed Jovanski and Dion Phaneuf come to mind but they make 6 millon +.

Also I would take Rypien on my team ever day of the week over Voros. Rypien is a decent 3 rd liner and a great 4 th liner he's the best pound for pound fighter in the game he's only lost 1 fight in his career.Also Rypien isn't a consistent Scratch he's injured most of the time so he can't play when healthy Rypien is rarely a scratch.

And finally your saying that Bieksa isn't a top 4 defenceman,give your head a shake Bieksa is a top 4 defenceman on every team in the league.Name one team that Bieksa wouldn't be a top 4 defenceman on he's a 40-45 point physical defenceman that some times has brain farts but is still very good.

As for the top paring defenceman theres 3 guys that might me moved at the deadline.First Tomas Kabrele but I think the asking price is to high the Leafs would probably want Burrows + so I would pass.Second Defenceman would be Lubo Vishnovsky he's a very good defenceman but the Canucks and Oilers haven't made a real trade since the Slegr Okustina swap in the 90's.And also I doubt Lowe would ever trade with Gillis cause of the Nylander incident.And the last defenceman that may be on the block is Scott Niedermeyer who I think would be a perfect fit in Vancouver,he would be the missing .

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Old
12-02-2009, 04:39 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
No actually it doesn't there is no chance in hell that Rosival has more trade value them Bieksa,Rosvial is a 30 point defenceman that makes 5 million he doesn't even deserve 3 million IMO.But on the other hand Bieksa a 40-45 point tough as nails defenceman who makes only 3.75 million which he deserves,there aren't many of those defenceman in the game,Ed Jovanski and Dion Phaneuf come to mind but they make 6 millon +.
Rozsival the last 4 seasons has averaged 35 points and is good but not great defensively. How many guys like that earn under 3 million?

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Old
12-02-2009, 04:44 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by NOTENOUGHBREWER View Post
Rozsival the last 4 seasons has averaged 35 points and is good but not great defensively. How many guys like that earn under 3 million?
Okay maybe not under 3 million but no way he should get 5 million.

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Old
12-02-2009, 05:28 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
You just proved his point by asking the people who see the world threw "blue and green glasses".

Go ask that on the polls board and see what the reaction is.
Actually, this was my point:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAPiTA View Post
Anyone who thinks Kesler is better than Carter because of "intangibles" really sees the world through blue and green tinted glasses. There are only a select few Canucks fan who are that stupid. I'm sure a majority of Canucks fans would move Kesler in a reasonable package for Carter.
And as my poll shows, I was right. That's why I posted it on the Canucks board. I'm sure I'd get a much more one sided reaction if I posted that on the polls board.

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Old
12-02-2009, 05:33 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by hecktor View Post
I would love if we could somehow get Michalek or Enstrom and resign Mitchell for next year.

Some combination of...

Ehrhoff - Mitchell
Edler - Enstrom/Michalek
Salo - Bieksa
Michalek YES
Toby E, nah. we have a older much more proven dman like him in Erhoff,
Plus Toby should make more than Erhoff this summer,

Michalek brings physicality a lil offense and some really good shut down hockey.

Is he RH'd? i cant remember.

Hell, draw Milan later when he is UFA!haha i dream.

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Old
12-02-2009, 05:50 PM
  #112
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If we could fit Jovo under the cap I bet Phoenix would be willing to trade him. He's only under contract until 2011 so it wouldn't hurt too bad, and Bieksa would be going the other way so we would only be adding 3mil or so. He's a fan favorite around here too.

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Old
12-02-2009, 06:08 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by pmxc12873 View Post
Why do Vancouer fans over-rate all their players?
Most of these guys are 3rd liners on good teams...
Kessler - Broke 40pts once in his career - avg .47ppg - 2nd line center at best
Raymond - 61pts in 147 career games
Burrows - Had career best 28g last year - thank you Sedin Sisters
Bieksa - a plus one time in his career - a +1.....a career minus defenceman
Bernier - 15g is the best he's ever done in a season
Samuelsson - Theres a reason he's on his 6th team in 12th year

Salo and Demitra are good - but LTR's waiting to happen.

...the Sedins and Luongo are the team.
Kesler (not Kessler) and Burrows are 2 players that any team in the league would kill to have, especially for their salaries. Kesler's was a Selke nominee with Richards and Datsyuk last year and he's making 1.75mil. He's also tied for 10th in the league with assists right now playing with Raymond/Grabner/Samuelsson.

Raymond is having a breakout year, and yeah his ceiling is almost definitely as a 2nd liner and he may peak as a very good 3rd liner, but that doesn't make him junk.

Sammy and Bernier are both excellent 3rd line players, although they're obviously not going to bring much in terms of trade value.

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Old
12-03-2009, 08:06 PM
  #114
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dan hamhuis, or scott neidmayer would be my choices. but maybe they need a younger dman to fit the top pairing, can play physically and less prone to making mistakes. shea weber would be my choice, but asking price will probably be a hodgson,picks,prospects

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12-03-2009, 08:12 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by David71 View Post
dan hamhuis, or scott neidmayer would be my choices. but maybe they need a younger dman to fit the top pairing, can play physically and less prone to making mistakes. shea weber would be my choice, but asking price will probably be a hodgson,picks,prospects
if that's the asking price for Weber you do it.

but he doesn't have an asking price... he is a player that you don't trade, but build around.

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12-03-2009, 08:21 PM
  #116
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Hodgson and a 1st for Kaberle.

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Old
12-03-2009, 08:21 PM
  #117
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yeah, if gillis is willing to "win now" put all the chips on the table, i agree with you. pull the trigger to get weber, but then again nashville is practically building a pretty god set of defense player around him for years to come.

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12-03-2009, 08:24 PM
  #118
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Nidermayer + 2nd for

Bieksa + Burrows?

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Old
12-03-2009, 08:35 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by David71 View Post
yeah, if gillis is willing to "win now" put all the chips on the table, i agree with you. pull the trigger to get weber, but then again nashville is practically building a pretty god set of defense player around him for years to come.
doesn't really matter if Gillis is in "win now" mode... we're close enough that this is not a rebuilding team, and Weber isn't a short-term asset... he's a guy you build your defense around for years to come.

If Weber is available, I'd easily part with Hodgson, a 1st and then some... Grabner? Hansen? Raymond? Schroeder?

these are all replaceable assets... players like Weber are almost impossible to land. Teams that have them don't give them up, and if they ever hit FA, you have to overpay to compete with the other teams that want them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
Hodgson and a 1st for Kaberle.
To ALL Leaf fans - the Canucks don't need nor want Kaberle. I've seen it brought up by Leaf fans since the start of the season, and Canuck fans regularly reject it. If you want to move him for peanuts, I'm sure the Canucks will listen. But he no longer addresses a need for the Canucks. That trade option passed the day the Canucks traded for Ehrhoff and signed Schneider.

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Old
12-04-2009, 03:26 AM
  #120
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This thread makes my head hurt. Too many stupid people posting biased opinions.

Anyway, for the people wanting to replace Mitchell, there are only 2 options in UFA this year. Volchenkov and Michalek. If its anyone else we might as well re-sign Willie. For the people with Hamhuis boners, no. He's not going to be an upgrade to make it worth the ~4 mil it'll take.

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Old
12-04-2009, 03:27 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by David71 View Post
yeah, if gillis is willing to "win now" put all the chips on the table, i agree with you. pull the trigger to get weber, but then again nashville is practically building a pretty god set of defense player around him for years to come.
If Weber was put on the trade table you make every effort to get that deal done almost bar no excuse. He's a top5 Dman in the league and every bit as good as Pronger and quicker.

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12-04-2009, 03:29 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by David71 View Post
dan hamhuis, or scott neidmayer would be my choices. but maybe they need a younger dman to fit the top pairing, can play physically and less prone to making mistakes. shea weber would be my choice, but asking price will probably be a hodgson,picks,prospects
I'd do that trade in a second. I'd basically almost let them name their price. Hodgson, Bieksa, first round picks, Schroeder, whatever it took.

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Old
12-04-2009, 03:34 AM
  #123
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Nidermayer + 2nd for

Bieksa + Burrows?
Um, no?

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Old
12-04-2009, 03:38 AM
  #124
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Canucks either need that elite Pronger/Weber/Neider guy, because no matter what having more of those types of top tier defenseman is never a bad thing. That being said, I find it very unlikely we'll manage to land that tier of defenseman, the last one in UFA was Chara, Neider I suppose is the only one coming up next year and he's not a long term solution and I'm not convinced he wants to change teams this late in his career, or even play next year.

Barring getting that top elite guy, we need a Ohlund/Salo prime type player. Both of them were great for us, however both of them are past where they would be useful to us. A guy who can play tough minutes with Mitchell, but perhaps slightly more offensive, just like Salo and Ohlund used to be, would be excellent.

Kaberle makes no sense at all with our PP already being close to tops in the league. We have Erhoff and Edler already on pace for over 50 points, and Bieksa putting up solid offensive numbers as well. Kaberle's redundant. Why deal for a guy who's main strength is already our main strength? Toronto shouldn't be so quick to deal him either, as right when they do they'll be looking to fill that gap for the next forever anyways.

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