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Old
12-01-2009, 10:42 AM
  #26
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Could the wings have gotten rid of Meech or Lebda before Quincey?

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12-01-2009, 10:45 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeytown93 View Post
Could the wings have gotten rid of Meech or Lebda before Quincey?
Yes. They chose Quincey because they felt he didn't fit their style of play and Meech and Lebda did.

Some folks here will still suggest that he would be Jesse Wallin if the Wings hadn't dumped him. Those folks are wrong, but they are around.

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12-01-2009, 10:48 AM
  #28
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Well to the Wings defense:

Lebda when he first got here was a fast-puck moving defensemen, but I think since the league has gotten faster paced, Lebda's lost ALL of his step

Meech just was never given a fair chance

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12-01-2009, 10:48 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Hockeytown93 View Post
Could the wings have gotten rid of Meech or Lebda before Quincey?

Lebda was signed to a very cheap 4 yr $650K cap hit. That's more than reasonable for a good skater and puckmoving guy as the sixth defenseman. Meech could have been waived as he was in a similar position to Quincey. Chelios didn't need to be re-signed in the offseason, which Holland did knowing he was going to have dump one of Meech or Q. I hated the idea because Quincey had a 2 yrs remaining at $500K or so..... Chelios cost the team more than any of these bottom three young guys, and for the price of Lilja, you could have kept Meech and Q or Q and Lebda... or whatever combo you want to us. THe bigger problem was Cheli though. The team lost a budding young player for NOTHING just so Cheli could sit in the press box for one additional year. Why not give him a coaching job..... When the injuries to defensemen started rolling in, that's when you felt the loss of Quincey.

 
Old
12-01-2009, 10:51 AM
  #30
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then by all means f cheli

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12-01-2009, 11:13 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Please notice that I'm not the one who starts these, but will admit I have trouble resisting the Q brigade.
Yeah, Q is almost at "He Who Should Not Be Named" status. What does the letter "Q" stand for kids? A: Depression.

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12-01-2009, 12:01 PM
  #32
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What do you expect the return would be if we traded guys like Helm, Abdelkader, Axelsson, Tatar, etc..? It certainly wont be someone like Evander Kane, like you suggested...

It seems like you want to get rid of everyone who's a 3rd/4th liner, bottom pairing defenseman and prospects who haven't made the team yet.. Even Tatar, who's doing great in the AHL just a few months after he got drafted.. Why?

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Old
12-01-2009, 12:14 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franzenstein View Post
Yeah, Q is almost at "He Who Should Not Be Named" status. What does the letter "Q" stand for kids? A: Depression.
Q stands for hyperbole.

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12-01-2009, 12:31 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Q stands for hyperbole.
Ha, so true.

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Old
12-01-2009, 01:50 PM
  #35
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a successful team is built with stars, depth and *gasp* role players. You're suggesting that we rid ourselves of depth for players who haven't yet reached their potential and may or may not be nhl calibre players. Let's not forget that even maltby was a 50 goal scorer in Juniors. Just because they can light the lamp in the minors and juniors does not mean they can in the NHL.

Players such as helm and abdelkader are essential compliments to players like zetterberg and datsyuk. If we rolled 4 lines of Zetterbergs and Datsyuk's we'd never have won the last 4 cups that we did.

Contracts cannot be reworked like they did in the past. It's part of the CBA. The wings organization don't just waive players because of a couple bad years. Will all the players who are ufa's at the end of the year get a new contract? Most likely no. Will they resign the players that'll help us stay in the hunt for the cup? I do believe they will.

These boards used to be the first place I came to when I came online. Lately with all this "OMG the world's gonna end because the wings are out of the playoff race AT THE BEGINNING OF THE FLIPPING SEASON" makes my head hurt so bad I stay away. Guess what? WE were the perennial powerhouse for a DECADE. We climbed the mountain and started on our way down. This year we hit a bit of an avalanche due to all the injuries. So what. Big deal. The world will not end in 2012. If we end up outside the playoffs looking in, it's okay. Hell, if anything, it'll give us better draft choices. Now would that be such a horrible thing?

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12-01-2009, 02:49 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwingsfan View Post
What do you expect the return would be if we traded guys like Helm, Abdelkader, Axelsson, Tatar, etc..? It certainly wont be someone like Evander Kane, like you suggested...

It seems like you want to get rid of everyone who's a 3rd/4th liner, bottom pairing defenseman and prospects who haven't made the team yet.. Even Tatar, who's doing great in the AHL just a few months after he got drafted.. Why?


Its not that I want to trade them, but why not try to trade them. Why not try and acquire something better in return. I dunno try and scam an NHL team..its been done

Initially I was asking why the wings have never made a prospect for better prospect deal. I didn't want to name names, just an overall question to the fans as why the wings wont do something of that magnitude, considering the fact that our draft position hasn't been the best due to our success.

Guys like Abby and Helm were thrown in there as suggestions to try and maybe get peoples thoughts as how they would feel to maybe package them up in return for a top prospect. As to Maltby, Draper, May, and Miller...id rather see them cut and bring the guys who are scoring in the AHL up. Guys like Draper, May, Maltby and Miller wont bring ANY trade value, but showcasing guys that COULD make it to the NHL, could bring trade value.

We all know that the Wings don't bank on their farm system, so why not shed the useless life (maltby and draper and may and miller) for younger blood who could bring something in the future. Tatar is really the only prospect thats deemed a "pure" scorer, so bring him up

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Old
12-01-2009, 03:07 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garry1221 View Post
a successful team is built with stars, depth and *gasp* role players. You're suggesting that we rid ourselves of depth for players who haven't yet reached their potential and may or may not be nhl calibre players. Let's not forget that even maltby was a 50 goal scorer in Juniors. Just because they can light the lamp in the minors and juniors does not mean they can in the NHL.

Players such as helm and abdelkader are essential compliments to players like zetterberg and datsyuk. If we rolled 4 lines of Zetterbergs and Datsyuk's we'd never have won the last 4 cups that we did.

Contracts cannot be reworked like they did in the past. It's part of the CBA. The wings organization don't just waive players because of a couple bad years. Will all the players who are ufa's at the end of the year get a new contract? Most likely no. Will they resign the players that'll help us stay in the hunt for the cup? I do believe they will.

These boards used to be the first place I came to when I came online. Lately with all this "OMG the world's gonna end because the wings are out of the playoff race AT THE BEGINNING OF THE FLIPPING SEASON" makes my head hurt so bad I stay away. Guess what? WE were the perennial powerhouse for a DECADE. We climbed the mountain and started on our way down. This year we hit a bit of an avalanche due to all the injuries. So what. Big deal. The world will not end in 2012. If we end up outside the playoffs looking in, it's okay. Hell, if anything, it'll give us better draft choices. Now would that be such a horrible thing?

Um if the wings rolled 4 lines of datsyuks and zmen the wings would have won every cup

waive players bc of a cuple bad years?? try reading what i had to say..i only said waive maltby draper and may bc thy have had horrible past 5 years. No one said anything about waiving helm, abdelkader tatar or axelsson

if you dont like the fans worrying then u got issuses we have to worry bc this team is gonna have to push extra hard to make to postseason. so ya im a lil worried that our 19+ streak of postseasons may end

now back to what i was saying earlier if u can read:
Guys like Abby and Helm were thrown in there as suggestions to try and maybe get peoples thoughts as how they would feel to maybe package them up in return for a top prospect. As to Maltby, Draper, May, and Miller...id rather see them cut and bring the guys who are scoring in the AHL up. Guys like Draper, May, Maltby and Miller wont bring ANY trade value, but showcasing guys that COULD make it to the NHL, could bring trade value.

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Old
12-01-2009, 03:13 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Q stands for hyperbole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franzenstein View Post
Ha, so true.



Quote:
Originally Posted by garry1221 View Post
a successful team is built with stars, depth and *gasp* role players. You're suggesting that we rid ourselves of depth for players who haven't yet reached their potential and may or may not be nhl calibre players. Let's not forget that even maltby was a 50 goal scorer in Juniors. Just because they can light the lamp in the minors and juniors does not mean they can in the NHL.

Players such as helm and abdelkader are essential compliments to players like zetterberg and datsyuk. If we rolled 4 lines of Zetterbergs and Datsyuk's we'd never have won the last 4 cups that we did.

Contracts cannot be reworked like they did in the past. It's part of the CBA. The wings organization don't just waive players because of a couple bad years. Will all the players who are ufa's at the end of the year get a new contract? Most likely no. Will they resign the players that'll help us stay in the hunt for the cup? I do believe they will.

These boards used to be the first place I came to when I came online. Lately with all this "OMG the world's gonna end because the wings are out of the playoff race AT THE BEGINNING OF THE FLIPPING SEASON" makes my head hurt so bad I stay away. Guess what? WE were the perennial powerhouse for a DECADE. We climbed the mountain and started on our way down. This year we hit a bit of an avalanche due to all the injuries. So what. Big deal. The world will not end in 2012. If we end up outside the playoffs looking in, it's okay. Hell, if anything, it'll give us better draft choices. Now would that be such a horrible thing?

Four Cups in our lifetimes, mostly as adults or old enough to remember.... What more can any fan base want? If they never win another Cup while I'm alive, can I really grouse about it? The majority of NHL hockey fans have no idea whatsoever what it's like to win a single Cup, let alone multiple times.

I'm fine with them not making the playoffs. Two decades of contention and a year down? Pffft. What I do like discussing though is if some of the moves of the last two years were not the right ones. Sure, I like to quip about Q, but he, like Lilja, isn't going to be the determining factor. It's just a bunch of little things that maybe added up this year before we expected.

 
Old
12-01-2009, 04:04 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeytown93 View Post
Um if the wings rolled 4 lines of datsyuks and zmen the wings would have won every cup

waive players bc of a cuple bad years?? try reading what i had to say..i only said waive maltby draper and may bc thy have had horrible past 5 years. No one said anything about waiving helm, abdelkader tatar or axelsson

if you dont like the fans worrying then u got issuses we have to worry bc this team is gonna have to push extra hard to make to postseason. so ya im a lil worried that our 19+ streak of postseasons may end

now back to what i was saying earlier if u can read:
Guys like Abby and Helm were thrown in there as suggestions to try and maybe get peoples thoughts as how they would feel to maybe package them up in return for a top prospect. As to Maltby, Draper, May, and Miller...id rather see them cut and bring the guys who are scoring in the AHL up. Guys like Draper, May, Maltby and Miller wont bring ANY trade value, but showcasing guys that COULD make it to the NHL, could bring trade value.
I'm pretty sure others have already said the same thing I'm about to say but I'll echo their voices.

Our scoring prospects aren't 100% ready for that next step. Not every skilled draftee are freaks of nature that can step in and immediately make the same type of impact they do at lower levels like the AHL. Bringing them up now could prove to be a bad decision. Letting them develop further will allow them to be better players in the future.

And at your bolded statement, sure we'd be winning more cups with more Datsyuks and Zetterbergs. The thing is, we don't have any Datsyuks and Zetterbergs right now besides the two that are already in our lineup. Beside that, the point you seem to be making with that statement is you think we should roll 4 scoring lines, correct? Just because players like May (just an example, this applies to the majority of depth players) aren't dominating the score sheet doesn't mean they don't impact the game.

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Old
12-01-2009, 04:33 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Four Cups in our lifetimes, mostly as adults or old enough to remember.... What more can any fan base want? If they never win another Cup while I'm alive, can I really grouse about it? The majority of NHL hockey fans have no idea whatsoever what it's like to win a single Cup, let alone multiple times.

I'm fine with them not making the playoffs. Two decades of contention and a year down? Pffft. What I do like discussing though is if some of the moves of the last two years were not the right ones. Sure, I like to quip about Q, but he, like Lilja, isn't going to be the determining factor. It's just a bunch of little things that maybe added up this year before we expected.
x1000

I watched a lot of bad Wings teams as a kid and I'm very thankful that I got to see them be successful for so long.

As for the OP try being more patient, most stars aren't born overnight. Dats had 34 points I think in his rookie campaign with one of the most talented teams ever assembled. The game he plays is based off 1/10 second reads and player spacing, needless to say that isn't exactly something that transfers overnight.

Leino right now is going through similar growing pains, he has excellent skill he just needs to learn how to apply them at the NHL level.

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Old
12-01-2009, 04:49 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Q stands for hyperbole.
Dude's got 53 points in his last 100 NHL games. That's almost identical to what Kimmo Timonen has scored in that time. Almost as much as Brian Campbell and Duncan Keith. Almost as much as Zdeno Chara. Just 2 shy of Dion Phaneuf's totals. The same amount as Jay Bouwmeester and Tomas Kaberle. Etc. Etc.

If anything I think people are underestimating the effect he could have had on this team, especially with Kronwall out. He probably wouldn't be getting that much PP time and so he'd probably be closer to 30 points than to 50 this year, but still, 30 points and good defense for 15-20 minutes a night is pretty damn good when you're paying the guy under a mil.

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12-01-2009, 05:10 PM
  #42
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I think because the players drafted do fit into the system.
/thread

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Old
12-01-2009, 05:15 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
Dude's got 53 points in his last 100 NHL games. That's almost identical to what Kimmo Timonen has scored in that time. Almost as much as Brian Campbell and Duncan Keith. Almost as much as Zdeno Chara. Just 2 shy of Dion Phaneuf's totals. The same amount as Jay Bouwmeester and Tomas Kaberle. Etc. Etc.

If anything I think people are underestimating the effect he could have had on this team, especially with Kronwall out. He probably wouldn't be getting that much PP time and so he'd probably be closer to 30 points than to 50 this year, but still, 30 points and good defense for 15-20 minutes a night is pretty damn good when you're paying the guy under a mil.
He wouldn't be getting any PP time. So take out those contributions.

Anyway, we've beaten this to death.


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