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What really worth the Coyotes farm?

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Old
12-01-2009, 03:07 PM
  #1
Komarov47
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What really worth the Coyotes farm?

So, what truely worth the farm?

1. Ekman-Larsson : Maybe our biggest gifted player right now. Maybe let him play one more season in Europe to make him ready to make the big jump.
2. Tikohonov : Gone in Russia for one season (?), was usefull in PK, not the biggest hitter neither the biggest scorer. Top 6 forward.
3. MacLean : He was a beast in OHL (119pts/61 games), had a good first season in AHL, could be a 1st line winger.
4. Ahnelov : Good defensive d-man. Proved in AHL that he's got the skill to play in NHL, a Tallinder's type of player.
5. Porter : Third season in AHL, a very average player. 3rd line or 4th line player, nothing else.

And what can we say about guys like Jared Stall (clearly not as gifted as his brothers), Alexander Nikulin, Chad Kolarik.... will they have a regular ice time in NHL one day?

The Yotes need to build with the trades, too much mistakes have been made the last 5/6 years. IMO

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12-01-2009, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Big Bear View Post
1. Ekman-Larsson : Maybe our biggest gifted player right now. Maybe let him play one more season in Europe to make him ready to make the big jump.
What about Turris & Boedker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Big Bear View Post
2. Tikohonov : Gone in Russia for one season (?), was usefull in PK, not the biggest hitter neither the biggest scorer. Top 6 forward.
Top 6? What have you seen in Tikhonov that makes you believe he's got more potential than a guy like Porter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Big Bear View Post
3. MacLean : He was a beast in OHL (119pts/61 games), had a good first season in AHL, could be a 1st line winger.
If I'm reading this correctly, Brett McLean is our #1 forward prospect? (He's the only one you've listed as a potential 1st liner.) Why?

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Originally Posted by Joe Big Bear View Post
5. Porter : Third season in AHL, a very average player. 3rd line or 4th line player, nothing else.
This one made me laugh. 3rd season in the AHL? KLet's be specific: 7 playoff games in '08, and 42 split between the past 2 seasons. By comparison, McLean has played in 74 games in the AHL. Porter was on pace to score 11 to 13 goals in his rookie NHL season. Porter has more points this season than McLean in the AHL. Porter is a pretty damn good defensive player. Yet you already wrote him off as a borderline 4th line NHLer, while you see 1st line potential in McLean?

Surely your opinion can't be biased by these players' nationalities, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Big Bear View Post
And what can we say about guys like Jared Stall (clearly not as gifted as his brothers), Alexander Nikulin, Chad Kolarik.... will they have a regular ice time in NHL one day?
That's why you have a farm. Your chances of getting an NHLer from 2nd+ round picks are pretty small, so you need quantity, patience, and a good development program to get maybe one of those 2nd tier guys to pan out. Every team is in the same boat.

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Originally Posted by Joe Big Bear View Post
The Yotes need to build with the trades, too much mistakes have been made the last 5/6 years. IMO
You are contradicting yourself. During the past 7 years we've built through trades. That's what brought us where we are. We've been focusing on home-grown talent for a very short amount of time. Why would you want to get back were we were 5 years ago? What other team in the NHL was built through trades and managed to have any kind of success?

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12-01-2009, 04:13 PM
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Did I not reply to this post yesterday? Must have magically disappeared.

I thought I was particularly brilliant and tactful in my response.

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12-01-2009, 04:24 PM
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Yep. Magic.

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12-01-2009, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Big Bear View Post
So, what truely worth the farm?

1. Ekman-Larsson : Maybe our biggest gifted player right now. Maybe let him play one more season in Europe to make him ready to make the big jump.
2. Tikohonov : Gone in Russia for one season (?), was usefull in PK, not the biggest hitter neither the biggest scorer. Top 6 forward.
3. MacLean : He was a beast in OHL (119pts/61 games), had a good first season in AHL, could be a 1st line winger.
4. Ahnelov : Good defensive d-man. Proved in AHL that he's got the skill to play in NHL, a Tallinder's type of player.
5. Porter : Third season in AHL, a very average player. 3rd line or 4th line player, nothing else.

And what can we say about guys like Jared Stall (clearly not as gifted as his brothers), Alexander Nikulin, Chad Kolarik.... will they have a regular ice time in NHL one day?

The Yotes need to build with the trades, too much mistakes have been made the last 5/6 years. IMO
THN ranked us #2 overall for prospect depth last year.

Goncharov was ranked #20 overall for all NHL prospects last year.
Brett MacLean was ranked #42 overall on the same list.

I would argue that Turris and Boedker are our top forward prospects and would be higher on the list than both Goncharov and MacLean. OEL will likely end up at or around Goncharov on this years rankings.

Then you can factor in guys like Tikhonov, Summers, Porter, Brown, and Ahnelov. I'm sure I'm missing some others as well.

There aren't very many teams that can boast anything close in terms of quality of prospects that this team enjoys. You may want to invest in THN's Top Prospect guide.

Here's the link:
https://secure.indas.on.ca/transcont...=special_issue

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Old
12-02-2009, 02:49 AM
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Turris's five goals in San Antonio aren't impressive, his 20 points in 63 games with Phoenix last season neither. And for Boedker if he was that great he would already crack the team, and not been send back to San Antonio. I'm not saying they are bad, i just think the hype is a bit high for both. Ekman-Larsson is probably your best prospect. And sincerely i don't care about nationality.

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12-02-2009, 02:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Big Bear View Post
Turris's five goals in San Antonio aren't impressive, his 20 points in 63 games with Phoenix last season neither. And for Boedker if he was that great he would already crack the team, and not been send back to San Antonio. I'm not saying they are bad, i just think the hype is a bit high for both. Ekman-Larsson is probably your best prospect. And sincerely i don't care about nationality.
Great discussion. Clearly you're right. I guess we can all move on now.


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12-02-2009, 07:51 AM
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I'm glad everyone is ok

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12-02-2009, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Big Bear View Post
So, what truely worth the farm?

what can we say about guys like Jared Stall (clearly not as gifted as his brothers), Alexander Nikulin, Chad Kolarik.... will they have a regular ice time in NHL one day?

The Yotes need to build with the trades, too much mistakes have been made the last 5/6 years. IMO
I'm confused? You are ranking our prospect pool as one full of mistakes because an 18 year old & 19 year old were rushed to the NHL too early and therefore are no longer considered prospects? You've already written off Turris and Boedker? Do you know how many years Bobby Ryan spent in the minors before his breakout season last year?

You dismiss Porter as a 3rd liner, yet he was drafted in the 4th round. What percentage of 4th round draft picks even make it to the NHL as average players? Kolarik was a 7th round pick. Goncharov a 5th round pick.

Why would Jared Staal be as gifted as his brothers (clearly not drafted as high as his brothers)? The Yotes didn't draft Nikulin.

If you want to question some high picks (I don't think any picks 3rd round or lower can be questioned given the small % who make it to the NHL, only congratulated if good picks are made, something the Coyotes have a great record of over the past 5-6 drafts) you should probably start with Peter Mueller, who will hopefully turn it around, and Nick Ross.

I really don't understand your comment about too many mistakes being made the last 5-6 years? Are you really talking about Turris & Boedker?

Why don't you explain the mistakes you are talking about.

IMO the only thing this franchise has done right the past 5-6 years is their drafting, and trades.

Sorry, but it's hard to take someone seriously when they come here with under a 100 posts, compare Jared Staal to his brothers, question low-end draft picks, and ask a confusing question and don't provide an answer for their own question.

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12-02-2009, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Devils Advocate View Post
Sorry, but it's hard to take someone seriously when they come here with under a 100 posts, compare Jared Staal to his brothers, question low-end draft picks, and ask a confusing question and don't provide an answer for their own question.
I agree, which is why I just didn't take it seriously at all.

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12-02-2009, 03:20 PM
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I agree, which is why I just didn't take it seriously at all.
Me 3. I can't find the post but he also said something about Hanzal being on the same boat as Mueller this season.
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Nevermind

On page 13 of my if Peter Mueller is going to be traded thread.
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=699593&page=13


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12-02-2009, 03:40 PM
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As soon as I didnt see Boedker and Turris in the top 5 I stopped reading...

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12-02-2009, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Gagnefan924 View Post
As soon as I didnt see Boedker and Turris in the top 5 I stopped reading...
Rookie Joe Big Bear is going from the Hockeys Future Coyote prospect list. Turris & Boedker are no longer prospects.

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12-02-2009, 04:16 PM
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LOL! They're both 19! They were rushed to the nhl. That doesnt mean they arent a prospect just because they played a season. What do you want to call em? Rising stars? Seriously they are both 19 and they were played to get their feet wet in the NHL. They arent playing full time well atleast Turris isnt atm so that makes em a prospect in my book. And they certainly arent vets

EDIT: Tikhonov is 21. How in the hell does he make the list and not Turris and Boedker? To me Turris and Boedker are both more of prospects then he is!

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12-02-2009, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gagnefan924 View Post
LOL! They're both 19! They were rushed to the nhl. That doesnt mean they arent a prospect just because they played a season. What do you want to call em? Rising stars? Seriously they are both 19 and they were played to get their feet wet in the NHL. They arent playing full time well atleast Turris isnt atm so that makes em a prospect in my book. And they certainly arent vets

EDIT: Tikhonov is 21. How in the hell does he make the list and not Turris and Boedker? To me Turris and Boedker are both more of prospects then he is!
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/whatmakesaprospect/

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12-02-2009, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gagnefan924 View Post
EDIT: Tikhonov is 21. How in the hell does he make the list and not Turris and Boedker? To me Turris and Boedker are both more of prospects then he is!
It's just the silly HF prospect rules. They really should be able to make executive decisions on leaving some guys off.

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12-02-2009, 08:32 PM
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Well here's my list.
1. OEL
2. Turris
3. Boedker
4. Tikhonov
5. MacLean

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12-02-2009, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gagnefan924 View Post
Well here's my list.
1. OEL
2. Turris
3. Boedker
4. Tikhonov
5. MacLean
I would probably put Goncharov in there at four, but that's just based on all the great things I've heard about him since I've yet to watch him play.

The fifth spot would be a toss up between Porter, Maclean, and Tikhonov. I'd probably go with Porter.

Not sure if I agree with OEL being first with Turris being second. Again, I haven't seen OEL play, and finding any clips of him is surprisingly difficult.

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12-02-2009, 11:34 PM
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I would say the top 3 are pretty interchangeable...I couldnt put them all 1 so I had to have some 2 and 3 lol. But Turris is probably going to be the future star if he lives up to the hype of being a #3 pick

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12-03-2009, 01:28 AM
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My fear with Turris is that even if he puts up big numbers in the AHL he is a bust at the NHL lever because he didn't stay at Wisconsin longer.
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12-03-2009, 01:51 AM
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My fear with Turris is that even if he puts up big numbers in the AHL he is a bust at the NHL lever because he didn't stay at Wisconsin longer.
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If he can add some muscle so he doesn't get knocked off the puck so easily, I think he's going to be a very, very fine NHL'er. At 6-foot-1 he has the size, just needs to get some meat on those bones.

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12-03-2009, 02:07 AM
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Brandon Sutter is doing okay in Carolina with a nearly identical build. He didn't exactly have an amazing rookie season, but they play different games, to be fair.

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12-03-2009, 02:16 AM
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Brandon Sutter is doing okay in Carolina with a nearly identical build. He didn't exactly have an amazing rookie season, but they play different games, to be fair.
If you're considered an elite talent as Turris was coming out of the draft at age 17 and you're still getting knocked off the puck after just turning 20, you're probably not strong enough yet.

The kid's still growing, and I wouldn't put much weight behind an inch-by-inch, pound-for-pound comparison at this point.

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12-03-2009, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Gagnefan924 View Post
LOL! They're both 19! They were rushed to the nhl. That doesnt mean they arent a prospect just because they played a season. What do you want to call em? Rising stars? Seriously they are both 19 and they were played to get their feet wet in the NHL. They arent playing full time well atleast Turris isnt atm so that makes em a prospect in my book. And they certainly arent vets

EDIT: Tikhonov is 21. How in the hell does he make the list and not Turris and Boedker? To me Turris and Boedker are both more of prospects then he is!
Because i take it from the HF ranking !

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12-03-2009, 05:50 AM
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You are all pissed but that's the true, you all have high hype for you guys, but the fact is that Gretzky may have destroy one or two of your prospect, and right now, for such high drafted pick like Turris, Mueller, Hanzal, Boedker, none is the big splash that everyone expected. I'm not saying your farm is bad, my quesion was "What really worth your farm?" That was my analysis, maybe not the good one, so explain me what your farm really worth ! It's pretty easy to bash someone with not the same opinions that yours, but it's not that easy to explain me the value of your prospect.

I was coming here to try to learn what worth the Yotes

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