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Old
12-02-2009, 02:40 PM
  #76
mikedifr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
am I the only one who doesnt really think Pronger is "calling him out"?
I think he is calling out the entire team to be honest....Not sure whether it is intended for Richards specifically.

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12-02-2009, 03:01 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
So its a coincidence then that once our PP went into the crapper we stopped winning??
Pittsburgh leads the league with 2.36 even strength goals per game. How many games will a team win over the course of the season by scoring 2.36 goals per game? Not many, I'd imagine. The Flyers score 2.08 even strength goals per game by comparison.

Special teams are an integral part of winning hockey games. When teams don't score powerply goals, they often don't win games. This isn't a problem that's unique to the Flyers.

The poor play during this streak started against the Kings, even though the Flyers ended up winning that game. Including the game against the Kings and since, the Flyers' powerplay is running at 14% (3/22) and the penalty kill is running at 75% (24/32). Both figures are terrible. During this streak it hasn't been the even strength play that has killed the Flyers.

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12-02-2009, 03:01 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Yep....Cause I am sure they are going to come out and say, "My coach sucks, fire him now"
Its not the coach... Lazy efforts and the lets not play 60 minutes of hockey mentality has us on this slump.

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12-02-2009, 03:35 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by harakiri View Post
Its not the coach... Lazy efforts and the lets not play 60 minutes of hockey mentality has us on this slump.
..this...while many people may disagree, the Flyers have proven the can win with Stevens' style of hockey...there not fluke wins either...but when members of the team play less that %100, any team will suffer...


Last edited by coda: 12-02-2009 at 03:54 PM.
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12-02-2009, 03:42 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by harakiri View Post
Its not the coach... Lazy efforts and the lets not play 60 minutes of hockey mentality has us on this slump.
A more and more disturbingly common scenario over the past few years.

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Old
12-02-2009, 03:47 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by coda View Post
..this...while many people may disagree, the Flyers have proven the can win with Stevens' style of hockey...there not flukes wins either...but when members of the team play less that %100, any team will suffer...
The Flyers CAN perform under Stevens, yes, but only when, like you said, they play with 100% effort. Let's face it, however, very few teams play every single period of every game with 100% effort all the time - we need a system that provides some leeway and plays to the Flyers' strengths. I'm not sure what that is exactly (as the era of the trap is long gone), but it's damn sure not 'dump and chase' if the players just don't want to put in the effort to do the second part of that system.

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12-02-2009, 03:53 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by FlyersRKings View Post
The Flyers CAN perform under Stevens, yes, but only when, like you said, they play with 100% effort. Let's face it, however, very few teams play every single period of every game with 100% effort all the time - we need a system that provides some leeway and plays to the Flyers' strengths. I'm not sure what that is exactly (as the era of the trap is long gone), but it's damn sure not 'dump and chase' if the players just don't want to put in the effort to do the second part of that system.
and the ones that do, win the cup.

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Old
12-02-2009, 04:00 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by FlyersRKings View Post
The Flyers CAN perform under Stevens, yes, but only when, like you said, they play with 100% effort. Let's face it, however, very few teams play every single period of every game with 100% effort all the time - we need a system that provides some leeway and plays to the Flyers' strengths. I'm not sure what that is exactly (as the era of the trap is long gone), but it's damn sure not 'dump and chase' if the players just don't want to put in the effort to do the second part of that system.
We need a system but you don't know what system we need.. This is why i am glad none of you are making front office decisions or are behind the bench. If the players don't want to put in the effort then its simple.. They should not be here.

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Old
12-02-2009, 04:07 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
am I the only one who doesnt really think Pronger is "calling him out"?
No you're not. For all the dick sucking of Pronger around here, it's surprising to me that everyone here believes such a great leader would call out his captain publicly and make things in that lockerroom worse.

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12-02-2009, 04:24 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harakiri View Post
We need a system but you don't know what system we need.. This is why i am glad none of you are making front office decisions or are behind the bench. If the players don't want to put in the effort then its simple.. They should not be here.
It's hard to blame system when most of the games we lose are lost as a result of piss poor team effort. That comes down on Stevens too though. The problem may be Stevens, but I don't know that it is his system, he just can't seem to consistently get good performances from his players. I think he is just too much of a players coach. Guys are too comfortable playing for him. The team needs a Herb Brooks type, fair but firm, I'm-not-your-****ing-friend-I'm-your-coach.

Also, lump me in with Opus as someone with the impression that Richards makes an outstanding, leadership-by-example, assistant captain. Being a captain is as much a matter of pressing the right buttons on your team and being a savvy people-person as it is about hockey. I don't know that Richards is that guy.

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12-02-2009, 04:28 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
No you're not. For all the dick sucking of Pronger around here, it's surprising to me that everyone here believes such a great leader would call out his captain publicly and make things in that lockerroom worse.
It's surprising to me that someone that sucks Richards dick more than anyone would comment about people sucking Pronger's dick. Alright, that's enough about dicksucking.

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Old
12-02-2009, 04:50 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harakiri View Post
We need a system but you don't know what system we need.. This is why i am glad none of you are making front office decisions or are behind the bench. If the players don't want to put in the effort then its simple.. They should not be here.
I'm sorry, I should have submitted to your years of NHL coaching experience. 'None of you are making front office decisions'? Are you in the Flyers' front office? Do me a favor then and make them play better.

Anyway, I'm not sure there is a coach out there right now that players love playing for AND put in 100% effort every game....seems like people thing these two are mutually exclusive, which I guess may be the case....

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Old
12-02-2009, 05:05 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
am I the only one who doesnt really think Pronger is "calling him out"?
He didn't call out anyone, at all. People will twist anything to go along with their viewpoint on this board

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Old
12-02-2009, 05:23 PM
  #89
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This is new to the CSN site:

http://www.csnphilly.com/pages/landi...104&feedID=695


Quote:
Recently, team captain Mike Richards has been a target for blame, as well. Richards has been called out – especially in fan circles – for what has been interpreted as a passive, quiet style of leadership.

Chris Pronger even chipped in earlier this week, saying Richards needed to “show the rest of the players that (the Flyers are) his team.”
Quote:
The Flyers are, in large part, a young team – with a number of players like Richards, James van Riemsdyk, Claude Giroux and Jeff Carter, guys who are only about college-age but carry important roles on the team and often make headlines. Stevens said Richards, 24, is still learning how to shoulder the responsibility that comes along with captaincy – but that the same could be said for any other NHL team captain, regardless of age.

“I think every day you’re a captain, you become more prepared to handle it, whether you’re Steve Yzerman at the end of his career or Mike Richards at the beginning of his career” Stevens said. “I think he’s more prepared now than he was last year, simply because he’s been at it longer.”

In addition, Stevens said there’s more to Richards’ leadership style than is obvious to those who aren’t around him in the dressing room or on the bench during games.

“I do think Richie leads by example, but I do think he has this subtle effect by pulling players in and making guys better around him, which seems like a common trait between Clarke and Richie; they can really help players that are struggling, because it doesn’t matter who they play with, they seem to play better when they play with them.

“It doesn’t matter who we play Richie with, they seem to play better, and that’s what you expect from your captain: to make players around them better.”

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Old
12-02-2009, 05:30 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Crescent Street View Post
Anyone who doesn't pick up on the amount of giveaways Richie has been dishing out this season is just totally blind and incapable of making unbiased observations.
They are a little high, he has 18 but there are 5 players with more on the team. And, league wide, he's tied for 72nd in the league. Sydney Crosby is 3rd with 40+ and I don't think people are going to complain about him being a turnover machine.

Giroux is awesome, though. 22 takeaways (18th in the league).

Also, Carter has 63 missed shots. That leads the entire league by 14 missed shots and we've played fewer games than a bunch of teams. No one else on our team is out of the 20s. But, Carter only has 4 giveaways and 14 takes.


And, for the record, Richards is now at 51.9 percent F/Os. Speaking of leadership, wasn't JXC waiting for Richards to improve at that in order to prove his leadership qualities?


Last edited by Valhoun*: 12-02-2009 at 05:37 PM.
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12-02-2009, 05:33 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
Also, Carter has 63 missed shots. That leads the entire league by 14 missed shots and we've played fewer games than a bunch of teams. No one else on our team is out of the 20s. But, Carter only have 4 giveaways and 14 takes.


A missed shot often results in the same scenario as a giveaway.

Carter's been a little more patient with the puck in the offensive zone this year; I'm shocked to see his missed shot number so high.

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12-02-2009, 05:34 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
am I the only one who doesnt really think Pronger is "calling him out"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
He didn't call out anyone, at all. People will twist anything to go along with their viewpoint on this board
I don't think he's calling anyone out here. He's being asked direct questions and answering as best as he can. He's not the type to lie and say everything is peachy, if someone asks the question has Richards asked you for advise, he has to answer. The media are asking the questions and are certainly well trained on how to lead someone into getting the answers they want to hear. The only recourse a player has when someone in the media is trying to spark (sometimes legitimate) controversy is to lie or not answer. Anything we hear out of any player is the end result of a game being played, and the media side generally has a stacked deck to play with. Pretty much nothing we hear is an actual reflection of whats really going on. You can only put so much weight on what you hear from any player, coach, GM etc... Except in the case of Bobby (Bob, Robert) Clarke of course.

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12-02-2009, 05:41 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by XS Chop View Post
I don't think he's calling anyone out here. He's being asked direct questions and answering as best as he can. He's not the type to lie and say everything is peachy, if someone asks the question has Richards asked you for advise, he has to answer. The media are asking the questions and are certainly well trained on how to lead someone into getting the answers they want to hear. The only recourse a player has when someone in the media is trying to spark (sometimes legitimate) controversy is to lie or not answer. Anything we hear out of any player is the end result of a game being played, and the media side generally has a stacked deck to play with. Pretty much nothing we hear is an actual reflection of whats really going on. You can only put so much weight on what you hear from any player, coach, GM etc... Except in the case of Bobby (Bob, Robert) Clarke of course.

First, players should lie if they don't want to call someone out. It most cases that loyalty is a good thing in the locker room.

Second, Pronger wasn't being a dick or anything but he definitely called Richards out. He did it with politeness and obviously doesn't want to disrupt morale. But he definitely made his opinions known.

Quote:
Chris Pronger even chipped in earlier this week, saying Richards needed to “show the rest of the players that (the Flyers are) his team.”
That's calling someone out. I don't see how someone can view it any other way. He said this to the press, not to Richards in private. Pronger wants **** to change and he wants Richards to make that change happpen (though, I agree with people who feel that Richards' production has been fine so far.)

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Old
12-02-2009, 06:01 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
First, players should lie if they don't want to call someone out. It most cases that loyalty is a good thing in the locker room.

Second, Pronger wasn't being a dick or anything but he definitely called Richards out. He did it with politeness and obviously doesn't want to disrupt morale. But he definitely made his opinions known.



That's calling someone out. I don't see how someone can view it any other way. He said this to the press, not to Richards in private. Pronger wants **** to change and he wants Richards to make that change happpen (though, I agree with people who feel that Richards' production has been fine so far.)
That quote is in response to the reporter asking Pronger if he was going to step up and lead. He responded by saying that it was Richard's job to do.

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12-02-2009, 06:07 PM
  #95
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I'm not sure how anybody could look at this and suggest that Pronger didn't call out Richards.

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12-02-2009, 06:19 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
That quote is in response to the reporter asking Pronger if he was going to step up and lead. He responded by saying that it was Richard's job to do.
Yes. And he called Richards out to do that job. Again, not in a dick way. But he did it.

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12-02-2009, 07:43 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by claude boivin lives View Post
It's surprising to me that someone that sucks Richards dick more than anyone would comment about people sucking Pronger's dick. Alright, that's enough about dicksucking.
Being a fan of Richards' has sweet ****-all to do with the point I made. Way to stay relevant.

For the record, I'm also a Pronger "dick sucker". But, I don't see how a veteran player and respected leader could say something like this that could have a negative impact on the team. Therefore, it surprises me that everyone here who loves Pronger would be happy he said something that could hurt a fragile room.

If people expect Richards to go to Pronger quietly and ask for advice, Pronger should follow suit and go to Richards quietly and say "hey, if it was me, here's what I'd do to get this team going". If he really called Richards out in the media - it's open for interpretation, in my opinion - but if he did, it can't be a good thing. We don't need a power struggle and we don't need players questioning each other. If he thinks his captain needs to be called out - it should be done quietly.

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12-02-2009, 08:55 PM
  #98
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Pronger definitely called him out. Richards is playing well but I'm guessing they want him calling guys out. Why can't they both have A's and play "Good cop, Bad cop?"

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Old
12-03-2009, 11:21 AM
  #99
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anybody consider that pronger was deliberately trying to piss off richie? make him angry and make him more proactive in the locker room?

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12-03-2009, 11:36 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
But, I don't see how a veteran player and respected leader could say something like this that could have a negative impact on the team.
Then maybe your Richards pom-poms are blocking your vision. From a logical, unbiased point of view...you have to give Pronger the benefit of the doubt here, considering his resume. Obviously, Pronger has reasons for feeling the way he does...and what's more concerning than the fact that he feels the way he does is the fact that he felt the need to tell the press. Now, should I be more concerned about the way he is handling the current situation, or should I be more concerned that he felt the need to handle it this way?

I also would like to see stuff like this handled quietly, and without the press....I hate stuff like this. But you don't think Pronger considered doing that? It's clear that he didn't think going to Richards quietly was the right thing to do at this point. And I'm quite certain that his decision to handle it the way he did wasn't a hasty one.

And lastly, going along with the fact that there's surely a big thought process behind this kind of thing....Pronger obviously intends for this to have a positive impact.

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