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Who should oilers trade most and for what?

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Old
12-04-2009, 08:28 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemskyfanboy83 View Post
You think the team is too soft yet you want Eberle over Paajarvi? Paajarvi is bigger stronger and plays a harder style of hockey than Eberle.

As for the rest of the team. Jacques, Stone, and Brule all bring an in your face type of game. How many physical forwards do other teams have? Chicago/Pitsburgh/Detroit don't have too many more.

Then you add 2 of the strongest/biggest forwards in the league in Penner and Jagr. They might not hit a lot but try to get the puck off them. Hall and Paajarvi both bring good size and in the case of Paajarvi he loves to crash the net. Hemsky has no problem going into the corners and Poltuny plays hard.

The only softer players on the team would be Gagner, O'Sullivan and Horcoff.
MPS hasnt even come to training camp yet you have him on next year's roster. That's a little ambitious. I am aware that he is a bigger player, havent really seen enough of him to form an opinion of how physical he is, but seeing as how he isnt twenty yet, Im not expecting a lot at the nhl level.

The team you put forward is softer than what we already have. That wouldnt cut it. Thats my opinion, you are free to disagree if you choose.

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12-04-2009, 08:32 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
MPS hasnt even come to training camp yet you have him on next year's roster. That's a little ambitious. I am aware that he is a bigger player, havent really seen enough of him to form an opinion of how physical he is, but seeing as how he isnt twenty yet, Im not expecting a lot at the nhl level.

The team you put forward is softer than what we already have. That wouldnt cut it. Thats my opinion, you are free to disagree if you choose.
Let's see

Cogliano is softer than Hall
Comrie is softer than Paajarvi
Moreau is softer than Jagr
Souray is the only tough player we are losing but he has sucked this year.

I don't understand your logic.

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12-04-2009, 08:41 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Daryn Duliba View Post
Do you honestly believe that?

I think we have had a bad team for so long, people in this town have become "Vancouverized". You can't create a championship team building around a mediocre player.

Hemsky is a mediocre player - after six full season in the NHL it is time to realize he just ain't going to get any better. He is what he is and that is mediocre. He cannot carry this team on his back, he is not the player to build around. He is a complimentary player and will never be a dominant, superstar, leader type. Nothing wrong with that but when you factor in his give aways and disappearing acts he is worth about $4 million.

With Hemksy carrying the team, we have missed the playoffs three years in a row. How does that make Hemsky an incredible bargain? Hemsky is a complimentary player like Kovalev or Gomez, not the kind of player you build a championship team around.

If the Hemsky contract is the bargain you say it is, we shouldn't have a problem trading him for someone that can really lead this team to contention.
Considering that there are about 20 forwards in the league that I would consider better options than Hemsky and most come with bigger contracts or are getting long in the tooth I don't see the need to trade Hemsky. He's still young and despite a bad injury this season he was at ppg pace. Why would you flip and after the Marc Savard signing one would think we should be extending him with a similiarish contract offer.

I'd trim the fat.

Horcoff if you can, but I think we've got on the books for the next few years.

Pisani could be moved, but considering his health issues and that he's in the last year of contract I doubt he moves either.

Strudwick can stay. Great team guy, versatile even if he does suck and at a base salary.

Moreau for picks or "B" prospect.

Staios for a mid pick.

Nilsson for another enigma, but one that carries a two way contract.

Cogliano for another young struggling forward, but with size. Peter Mueller comes to mind.

Comrie if someone wants him and for no other reason than to acquire assets in exchange for his services. I think this was a one year deal all the way anyways. Good PR for both sides. If he stays then so be it. He's a non-issue.

If we are in the tank come January I'd definitely ask one of Souray or Visnovsky if they wanted to be traded and then shop them for a great shut down d-man and picks.


If I was Tambo my New Years Resolution would be to get bigger up front, gain at least one more first round pick and grab some salary cap room at any and all costs.


** Gilbert was left off my list just for his RH shot on the PP. His value is low right now as he's not performing up to expectations, but he's a keeper in my mind. Just wish the guy would get as Quinn would call it, a "little crust".


Last edited by davegagnerskid: 12-04-2009 at 08:46 PM.
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12-04-2009, 08:46 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by davegagnerskid View Post
If we are in the tank come January I'd definitely ask one of Souray or Visnovsky if they wanted to be traded and then shop them for a great shut down d-man and picks.


If I was Tambo my New Years Resolution would be to get bigger up front, gain at least one more first round pick and grab some salary cap room at any and all costs.
Exactly my thoughts. Would be nice to shed some salary (e.g. Nilsson, Moreau) and add some quality prospects/picks by trading one of Souray/Visnovsky.

Almost 12M in cap space could be put to good use in the summer.

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12-04-2009, 08:47 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemskyfanboy83 View Post
Let's see

Cogliano is softer than Hall
Comrie is softer than Paajarvi
Moreau is softer than Jagr
Souray is the only tough player we are losing but he has sucked this year.

I don't understand your logic.
Taylor Hall is listed at 185lbs. He isnt scaring anybody. Moreau is not softer than Jagr. You are adding a floating puff in Jagr and a 185lb 18yr old, along with another player that hasnt played a lick in the nhl. You are also missing Souray and Stortini. That makes your team even softer than what we have now, which is not good enough.

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12-04-2009, 08:49 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by ponokanocker View Post
Grebeshkov and O'Sullivan for anyone.
I can see why LA got rid of O'Sullivan now! He just seems to be a constant floater out there unless there's a chance to score, and never digs hard for the loose pucks in his own end.
Brett Hull went to the HOF for similar feats. H's snakebitten. I'm willing to ride out his contract.

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12-04-2009, 08:53 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Little Fury View Post
Injuries are a fact of life, they're gonna happen every year. If anything, the injury problems the Oilers have seen this year merely exposes the lack of depth at every position. If your team is hurting because its missing guys like Mike Comrie, JFJ and Ryan Stone, you probably weren't very good to begin with.
I'd say it has more to do with Khabbibulin, Hemsky, Souray, and Grebs. Injuries happen but generally not to a team's top player in every position for a half or full season. The Oilers have had worse luck than almost every team in the league as far as injuries the past 3 years.

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12-04-2009, 08:54 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
O'Sullivan, Gilbert and Nilsson. We need to get tougher and all three of these cream puffs are a big part of the problem. I would also move Hemsky for a good return. If we are going to rebuild, Souray or Visnovsky should be moved for picks/prospects as well. If there is any possibility of moving Khabibulin or Horcoff we should take it, just to dump salary, if it were possible. Dont re-sign Comrie. Let Pisani go. These moves would make the team much better imo.

This team can have cream puffs if Stone and Jacques stay healthy. They don't need to finish off checks, they just need to be strong on the puck. We've got some tough guys and some big bodies that love to hit. Their tenacity can be contagious and they already create room for oue skilled players. Nilsson is the only one of the three that I think must go, just because he has Schrempitis. Unmatched talent, with a lackluster heart. He disappears far to often.

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12-04-2009, 08:59 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Taylor Hall is listed at 185lbs. He isnt scaring anybody. Moreau is not softer than Jagr. You are adding a floating puff in Jagr and a 185lb 18yr old, along with another player that hasnt played a lick in the nhl. You are also missing Souray and Stortini. That makes your team even softer than what we have now, which is not good enough.
185lbs at 18? C'mon. He's still a boy. He'll add a solid 15-20lbs to his frame over time. He is 6'01. That being said I don't agree much with the poster that you are replying to either.

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12-04-2009, 08:59 PM
  #60
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Either souray or Lubor and not taking any money back to free up cap space next year

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12-04-2009, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by davegagnerskid View Post
185lbs at 18? C'mon. He's still a boy. He'll add a solid 15-20lbs to his frame over time. He is 6'01. That being said I don't agree much with the poster that you are replying to either.
Exactly. He is trying to represent that Hall will bring a physical game in the nhl. I dont think so. He will score a lot of goals and points, but that is not what we are talking about really.

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12-04-2009, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Exactly. He is trying to represent that Hall will bring a physical game in the nhl. I dont think so. He will score a lot of goals and points, but that is not what we are talking about really.
I'll take goals and points next year. I can wait for physical play later in his career, but he can still produce without banging bosies I won't trade him away either.

A kid like Patrick Kane will never bodycheck like Clutterbuck, but would you ever let a chance at getting him get in your way?

I just hate our so called skilled forwards that don't produce. If you want to carry the title of being a physical presence like Jacques then you'd better hit everything that moves and he does so beyond expectations.

Leaders need to lead and not take stupid penalties. I don't need to say names, but we all know who I'm singling out.

If you are suppose to score then you should be putting up numbers. We've got too many guys like that here. Unless you're under 21 then I'll give you a mulligan. The rest of these underachievers have no excuse.


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12-04-2009, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by davegagnerskid View Post
I'll take goals and points next year. I can wait for physical play later in his career, but he can still produce without banging bosies I won't trade him away either.

A kid like Patrick Kane will never bodycheck like Clutterbuck, but would you ever let a chance at getting him get in your way?

I just hate our so called skilled forwards that don't produce. If you want to carry the title of being a physical presence like Jacques then you'd better hit everything that moves and he does so beyond expectations.

Leaders need to lead and not take stupid penalties. I don't need to say names, but we all know who I'm singling out.

If you are suppose to score then you should be putting up numbers. We've got too many guys like that here. Unless you're under 21 then I'll give you a mulligan. The rest of these underachievers have no excuse.
No argument from me. My point is that his roster is too soft.

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12-04-2009, 09:29 PM
  #64
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Trade Lubomir and Moreau to Boston for Toronto's pick. IF Boston is close, this year those guys could help put them through. For the record I don't think Toronto's pick will be top 4. That would clear salary space and give the captiancy to Souray.

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12-04-2009, 09:43 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
No argument from me. My point is that his roster is too soft.
I agree, but I think it could be fixed if our crash and bangers would stay healthy. After watching last game I noticed a jump in everyone's step when Jacques was running around like a runaway train and Stone adds a secondary presence that can make our forwards 2 inches taller and 10 pounds heavier. Intensity is contagious and we've been missin those forwards more than I'd ever have expected since it's been such a long time since we've had players like that. Raffi Torres was our last physical presence and even he disappeared way too often.

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12-04-2009, 09:52 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by napaneeoilfan View Post
Trade Lubomir and Moreau to Boston for Toronto's pick. IF Boston is close, this year those guys could help put them through. For the record I don't think Toronto's pick will be top 4. That would clear salary space and give the captiancy to Souray.
No way Boston does it. They don't havecap space to add 7.5M in salary even if they wanted.

If you want a 1st round pick, a better team to target would be Phoenex
Visnovsky, Moreau and Cogliano for Mueller/Turris, 1st round pick and one of their bottom six forwards.

We clear a lot of salary and add a struggling blue-chipper in Mueller as well as a 1st round pick in the 15-20 range.

Phoenex gets the best player Visnovsky and serviceable young player Cogliano. Moreau is a salary dump by the Oilers, but could be a welcome addition on a young Phoenex team.

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12-04-2009, 10:05 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Daryn Duliba View Post
Do you honestly believe that?

I think we have had a bad team for so long, people in this town have become "Vancouverized". You can't create a championship team building around a mediocre player.

Hemsky is a mediocre player - after six full season in the NHL it is time to realize he just ain't going to get any better. He is what he is and that is mediocre. He cannot carry this team on his back, he is not the player to build around. He is a complimentary player and will never be a dominant, superstar, leader type. Nothing wrong with that but when you factor in his give aways and disappearing acts he is worth about $4 million.

With Hemksy carrying the team, we have missed the playoffs three years in a row. How does that make Hemsky an incredible bargain? Hemsky is a complimentary player like Kovalev or Gomez, not the kind of player you build a championship team around.

If the Hemsky contract is the bargain you say it is, we shouldn't have a problem trading him for someone that can really lead this team to contention.
I totally and completely agree with this, I just don’t see the player “amazing player” that everyone else seems to. I think your right that the fans are "Vancouverized". Enough with the mediocrity already!

Mueller for Cogliano I like.

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12-04-2009, 10:07 PM
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No way Boston does it. They don't havecap space to add 7.5M in salary even if they wanted.

If you want a 1st round pick, a better team to target would be Phoenex
Visnovsky, Moreau and Cogliano for Mueller/Turris, 1st round pick and one of their bottom six forwards.

We clear a lot of salary and add a struggling blue-chipper in Mueller as well as a 1st round pick in the 15-20 range.

Phoenex gets the best player Visnovsky and serviceable young player Cogliano. Moreau is a salary dump by the Oilers, but could be a welcome addition on a young Phoenex team.
Thats a good idea too. My thinking was getting somehow 2 1st rounders + a decent player for 1st/2nd overall, while shedding salary and getting rid of some deadwood. (moreau)

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12-04-2009, 10:26 PM
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I really don't want to see Visnovsky traded.

People are getting all excited about a possible complete rebuild, but these are just as likley to turn into a disaster as they are the next Hawks or Penguins. I am all for a change in direction, but you don't have to purge anyone who can play the game. The Oilers have some good young talent in the system. Add one or two more and keep guys like Visnovsky and Hemsky and you might have a pretty solid team.

As much as I like Souray, if one has to go I think it will/should be him. I expect he will age more rapidly, and in fact, I think that losing Visnovsky will cost the team more in the long-run.

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12-04-2009, 10:32 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Taylor Hall is listed at 185lbs. He isnt scaring anybody. Moreau is not softer than Jagr. You are adding a floating puff in Jagr and a 185lb 18yr old, along with another player that hasnt played a lick in the nhl. You are also missing Souray and Stortini. That makes your team even softer than what we have now, which is not good enough.
Sorry buddy but Jagr is one of the strongest players to ever play the game. Jagr is a much stronger player than Penner. To call him a floating puff is just ignorant.

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12-04-2009, 10:35 PM
  #71
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Exactly. He is trying to represent that Hall will bring a physical game in the nhl. I dont think so. He will score a lot of goals and points, but that is not what we are talking about really.
No I wasn't. I am trying to represent that Hall is big and strong enough to be a hard player to play agianst.

Like I said name me all the physical players on Detroit/Chicago/Pitsburgh. They aren't loaded with physical players.

And I recall having an argument with you about how I thought Souray was going to decline within the next few years. You strongly disagreed but it looks like it has started to happen already.

You want to keep Souray because of his physical play/fights, well good for you. I will take players that keep the puck out of the net and can make Souray look like a clown.

You seem to be have that old-school thinking that tougher players = better when in reality all you need is players who can win puck battles.

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12-04-2009, 10:39 PM
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I really don't want to see Visnovsky traded.

People are getting all excited about a possible complete rebuild, but these are just as likley to turn into a disaster as they are the next Hawks or Penguins. I am all for a change in direction, but you don't have to purge anyone who can play the game. The Oilers have some good young talent in the system. Add one or two more and keep guys like Visnovsky and Hemsky and you might have a pretty solid team.

As much as I like Souray, if one has to go I think it will/should be him. I expect he will age more rapidly, and in fact, I think that losing Visnovsky will cost the team more in the long-run.
The thing is, you don't get anything back if you trade bad players. Visnovsky's trade value may never be higher than at the trade deadline of this season, given his strong play, and his age. It's not about a purge, it's about starting a rebuild and identifying what assets you can move at their maximal value now while you can.

On the other hand, I'd be against moving Hemsky unless there's a really killer deal for him. His contract is just too good.

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12-04-2009, 10:39 PM
  #73
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Sorry buddy but Jagr is one of the strongest players to ever play the game. Jagr is a much stronger player than Penner. To call him a floating puff is just ignorant.
Jagr does not play physical. He is Hemsky on steroids. And I am definitely not your buddy.

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12-04-2009, 10:41 PM
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Sorry buddy but Jagr is one of the strongest players to ever play the game. Jagr is a much stronger player than Penner. To call him a floating puff is just ignorant.
I don't know how much stronger Jagr is over Penner, but I will give you that both hold the puck for as long as they want too. A player can be strong without ever throwing a bodycheck. Guys like Mario, Jagr and Malkin used/use their strength and size with simple puck control. Hitting a player never mattered.

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12-04-2009, 10:42 PM
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Jagr does not play physical. He is Hemsky on steroids. And I am definitely not your buddy.
Sigh. You take your team full of hitters and I'll take my team full of players like Jagr who will score goals by carrying those players on his back.

You only really need hitters on the 4th line to help with the energy level.

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