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Who should oilers trade most and for what?

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Old
12-04-2009, 10:43 PM
  #76
I am the Liquor
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Originally Posted by Hemskyfanboy83 View Post
No I wasn't. I am trying to represent that Hall is big and strong enough to be a hard player to play agianst.

Like I said name me all the physical players on Detroit/Chicago/Pitsburgh. They aren't loaded with physical players.

And I recall having an argument with you about how I thought Souray was going to decline within the next few years. You strongly disagreed but it looks like it has started to happen already.

You want to keep Souray because of his physical play/fights, well good for you. I will take players that keep the puck out of the net and can make Souray look like a clown.

You seem to be have that old-school thinking that tougher players = better when in reality all you need is players who can win puck battles.
Our team is has too many soft players. That cant really be debated. Your proposed lineup makes them even softer. You are trying to tell me that a 185lb 18 yr old is going to be a physical addition to the team. Whatever. I think we are done here.

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Old
12-04-2009, 10:44 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by davegagnerskid View Post
I don't know how stronger Jagr is over Penner, but I will give you that both hold the puck for as long as they want too. A player can be strong without ever throwing a bodycheck. Guys like Mario, Jagr and Malkin used/use their strength and size with simple puck control. Hitting a player never mattered.
Jagr has long had a reputation for having some of the strongest set of legs in NHL history. I forget the specifics but I remember reading he would do some crazy amount of squats on his off days. This is a player who could use his size and strength to dominate in the dead puck era where it was a lot harder to play that type of game.

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Old
12-04-2009, 10:47 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Hemskyfanboy83 View Post
Jagr has long had a reputation for having some of the strongest set of legs in NHL history. I forget the specifics but I remember reading he would do some crazy amount of squats on his off days. This is a player who could use his size and strength to dominate in the dead puck era where it was a lot harder to play that type of game.

Wasn't disagreeing.

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12-04-2009, 10:48 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Our team is has too many soft players. That cant really be debated. Your proposed lineup makes them even softer. You are trying to tell me that a 185lb 18 yr old is going to be a physical addition to the team. Whatever. I think we are done here.
Our team has too many soft players in the sense that they lost puck battles around the boards.

What is the difference between Kane/Toews/Sharp and Cogliano/Gagner/Nilsson? It sure as hell isn't hitting. The Chicago trio is just much superior at getting/holding the puck.

I am not saying Hall will be a physical addition. He does however have the size/strength to be able to compete in the corners and come out with pucks.

You like a team filled with hitters. That is fine but skill trumps hitting.

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12-04-2009, 10:53 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Hemskyfanboy83 View Post
Our team has too many soft players in the sense that they lost puck battles around the boards.

What is the difference between Kane/Toews/Sharp and Cogliano/Gagner/Nilsson? It sure as hell isn't hitting. The Chicago trio is just much superior at getting/holding the puck.

I am not saying Hall will be a physical addition. He does however have the size/strength to be able to compete in the corners and come out with pucks.

You like a team filled with hitters. That is fine but skill trumps hitting.
Truth, but a team does need at least one good physical presence to be successful, imo. Overall I do agree with you though. Puck control wins games hands down. That's why we don't see the Broad Street Bully teams anymore.

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12-04-2009, 10:59 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
I really don't want to see Visnovsky traded.

People are getting all excited about a possible complete rebuild, but these are just as likley to turn into a disaster as they are the next Hawks or Penguins. I am all for a change in direction, but you don't have to purge anyone who can play the game. The Oilers have some good young talent in the system. Add one or two more and keep guys like Visnovsky and Hemsky and you might have a pretty solid team.

As much as I like Souray, if one has to go I think it will/should be him. I expect he will age more rapidly, and in fact, I think that losing Visnovsky will cost the team more in the long-run.
I would not worry about trading Visnovsky. Fans can say whatever they want, but the management seem to think they have a team that's good enough to make the play-offs. I expect a pretty quiet trade dead-line. If they can, they will move Nilsson and Comrie. And if they think they can't re-sign Grebeshkov, they will move him too.
Cogliano will probably be moved in the off-season.

Other than that, the team that we see currently will be the team that will start the season next October.

Penner-Horcoff-Hemsky
O'Sullivan-Gagner-Brule
JFJ-X-Stone
Moreau-X-Stortini

X could be one of Potulny/O'Marra/Pouliot or it could be a player acquired in a trade or signed as an UFA.

Souray-Gilbert
Visnovsky-Smid
Staios-Chorney
Peckham

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Old
12-04-2009, 10:59 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by davegagnerskid View Post
Truth, but a team does need at least one good physical presence to be successful, imo. Overall I do agree with you though. Puck control wins games hands down. That's why we don't see the Broad Street Bully teams anymore.
I agree. Having 3-5 hitters is all that is required IMO. You just need those guys to help provide energy when your team is flat. Other than that I'll take skill

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Old
12-04-2009, 11:31 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Hemskyfanboy83 View Post
I agree. Having 3-5 hitters is all that is required IMO. You just need those guys to help provide energy when your team is flat. Other than that I'll take skill
Good teams have strong two way players (See Detroit in the past few years, Chicago).

Right now Oilers have too many passengers on the defensive end of things. Penner and Horcoff are pretty much the only dependable two way forwards, although Horcoff has struggled of late--probably in part due to injury.

Hemsky, Nilsson, Cogliano, Gagner, O'Sullivan, Comrie, in addition to being small and soft are at best average in the D zone (O'Sullivan, Gagner), at worst absolutely horrendous (Nilsson, Comrie).

Add players like JFJ, Moreau, Stone, Stortini who will not be mistaken for elite checkers and it's clear where this team's problem is.


As much as people here dislike Horcoff, he's the type of player we need more.

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Old
12-05-2009, 01:42 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by tiger_80 View Post
As much as people here dislike Horcoff, he's the type of player we need more.
Not if they come with his kind of contract. That will ensure you a yearly lottery pick.

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