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Jeff Taffe

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Old
04-15-2004, 02:43 PM
  #1
Dancing Chicken
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Jeff Taffe

I am just interest what the fans see as his value right now. He was once said to be the next super star but he has not really developed under the Yotes guidence.. If he were to be traded what do you think his value would be??

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04-15-2004, 02:50 PM
  #2
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I would guess a mid-round draft pick. 5th or 6th, but this is only because his trade value is low going into the draft (along w/ about everyone one elses).

I think it is way to early to give up on Taffe. He played in his 1st NHL game this past season and is still very young.

Not everyone is going to go out and score 30 goals a year. He has size and pretty good hands.

I would love to have him St. Louis.

Edit: I mean back in St. Louis

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04-15-2004, 02:58 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancing Chicken
I am just interest what the fans see as his value right now. He was once said to be the next super star but he has not really developed under the Yotes guidence.. If he were to be traded what do you think his value would be??

I don't think Taffe was every expected to be the "next superstar". He was always regarded as a good, but not great, prospect. He went very late in the first round (something like 30th overall) and it wouldn't have been a tremendous shock if he had dropped to the second.

That said, it is too early to give up on this player. He could still develop for PHX.

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04-15-2004, 03:04 PM
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ok...here's a question...who would you rather have? Mikko Koivu or Taffe?

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04-15-2004, 04:02 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensGod
ok...here's a question...who would you rather have? Mikko Koivu or Taffe?
Taffe. Hands down

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04-15-2004, 04:31 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenzy1
I would guess a mid-round draft pick. 5th or 6th, but this is only because his trade value is low going into the draft (along w/ about everyone one elses).

I think it is way to early to give up on Taffe. He played in his 1st NHL game this past season and is still very young.

Not everyone is going to go out and score 30 goals a year. He has size and pretty good hands.
He doesnt use his size much. He likes to float a bit too much to get the clean break.

Still he was very hot and cold and was moved around a lot, almost always playing out of position on LW. He didnt get much ice time either.. if he had his ice time increased from 11.00 to 15.30 his stats would project to a 20 goal 40 point season so he hasnt actually done badly at all and could be a nice sleeper next year.

A 5th or 6th is not very good value for a guy who was ranked #1 prospect in the AHL at the start of the season. He's probably worth a 2nd at least I would have thought.

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04-16-2004, 08:02 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevex
He doesnt use his size much. He likes to float a bit too much to get the clean break.

Still he was very hot and cold and was moved around a lot, almost always playing out of position on LW. He didnt get much ice time either.. if he had his ice time increased from 11.00 to 15.30 his stats would project to a 20 goal 40 point season so he hasnt actually done badly at all and could be a nice sleeper next year.

A 5th or 6th is not very good value for a guy who was ranked #1 prospect in the AHL at the start of the season. He's probably worth a 2nd at least I would have thought.
Most players find there value dropped during the offseason. Also, he hasn't really done anything to earn a 2nd. You make a point about his ice time, but ice time is earned. Phoenix wasn't in the playoff hunt and had no reason not to give him icetime if he earned it. I wouldn't give you a 2nd for him at this point.

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04-16-2004, 08:38 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenzy1
I would guess a mid-round draft pick. 5th or 6th, but this is only because his trade value is low going into the draft (along w/ about everyone one elses).

I think it is way to early to give up on Taffe. He played in his 1st NHL game this past season and is still very young.

Not everyone is going to go out and score 30 goals a year. He has size and pretty good hands.

I would love to have him St. Louis.

Edit: I mean back in St. Louis

If the asking price is a mid round pick, I could see the Rangers interested. They have plenty of picks.

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04-16-2004, 09:41 AM
  #9
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Why on earth would the Coyotes give up Taffe for a mid-round pick? He's just now rounding into form and should be a key player on one of the top two lines next year. He's going nowhere.

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Old
04-16-2004, 11:17 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenzy1
I would guess a mid-round draft pick. 5th or 6th, but this is only because his trade value is low going into the draft (along w/ about everyone one elses).

I think it is way to early to give up on Taffe. He played in his 1st NHL game this past season and is still very young.

Not everyone is going to go out and score 30 goals a year. He has size and pretty good hands.

I would love to have him St. Louis.

Edit: I mean back in St. Louis
Not to rain on your parade, but I think you are absolutely delusional. A 5th or 6h round pick might have about a 10% chance to have a NHL career. Look at hockeydb.com which lists pretty much every NHL draft ever. Look at 85-95 and I think you'll get the point.

Taffe played for much of the year with Nazarov & (insert bum here). Putting a guy like Taffe on the 4th line, giving him 10 minutes a night with 2 stiffs, and then being surprised he didn't produce is a recipe for disaster.

Like most young players, he has to be more consistent. I saw several games where he looked fabulous.

There is no way that PHO would trade him for even a 2nd round draft pick. I think that if PHO is patient, he'll be a decent scoring line player.

Also, the entire PHO team went south after Nagy got hurt. IMO, it's really hard to evaluate a rookie when he's playing on a team that struggled as much as the Yotes did the second half of the season. Especially when the coach is a nimrod like Bones.

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Old
04-16-2004, 11:40 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan
Not to rain on your parade, but I think you are absolutely delusional. A 5th or 6h round pick might have about a 10% chance to have a NHL career. Look at hockeydb.com which lists pretty much every NHL draft ever. Look at 85-95 and I think you'll get the point.
Delusional ... Last season, Cory Stillman was traded for a 2nd rounder on draft day, i am using this because it was a draft day trade (now he is more expensive then Taffe, but he has also accomplished more in his carear). Sullivan was traded for 2 2nds, Sanderson for a 3rd on draft day. They are all far more established then Taffe.

Yes, they may be older, but they have more value, because they have actually competed at this level and had success.

As for Taffe being on the 4th line, though demonstrating his ability via practice and games, he could have received more ice time. But he didn't, and that is the bottom line.

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04-16-2004, 12:14 PM
  #12
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whether he has proven anything or not is irrelevant. he is still a prospect, and a solid one. he wont be had for anything less than a second. what prospects (of his caliber) get traded for less? name one. if he bombs for a couple more seasons - fine. your examples are of older, more established players, this is true - but those trades really dont have any bearing on how young players like taffe are handled. your asking the yotes to give up on a guy they want to see succeed....and then offering a 3-5th round pick for him? how is that inticing? why wouldnt you just hold on to him and give him more time? if you traded him, he should be packaged to land a bigger player.

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Old
04-16-2004, 02:28 PM
  #13
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Would phoenix do this trade: Liles and Col 1st rder for Taffe and Phnx 1st rder?

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Old
04-16-2004, 04:29 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenzy1
Delusional ... Last season, Cory Stillman was traded for a 2nd rounder on draft day, i am using this because it was a draft day trade (now he is more expensive then Taffe, but he has also accomplished more in his carear). Sullivan was traded for 2 2nds, Sanderson for a 3rd on draft day. They are all far more established then Taffe.

Yes, they may be older, but they have more value, because they have actually competed at this level and had success.

As for Taffe being on the 4th line, though demonstrating his ability via practice and games, he could have received more ice time. But he didn't, and that is the bottom line.
Can you understand the difference between a 30 YO player that will make $3-4M per season, and a guy playing for 20% of that? Do you understand that young players that aren't making much have a MUCH higher trade value than older guys who will be UFA's in 3 months?

Andrei Nikolishin and Karlis Skrastins both got traded for 4th round DP's in the off-season. Does that mean that CLM would trade Zherdev & Kesla for two 4th round picks because AN & KS have done more in their careers so far?

The odds of Jeff Taffe being a good NHL scoring line player are a hell of a lot better than a 2nd round draft pick having a NHL career. The only reason that a team would trade a guy like Taffe is if they think that he's not going to develop. It's WAY, WAY too soon to make that call IMO, especially if you look at Taffe's linemates.

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04-16-2004, 04:34 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by st_roland
Would phoenix do this trade: Liles and Col 1st rder for Taffe and Phnx 1st rder?
I like Liles, but PHO already has Morris, Mara, & Tanabe as good young offensive d-men. Add in prospects like Ballard & Knyazev and I don't think that Liles really fills a need in PHO.

Add in that this years draft is supposed to be top heavy, and I don't think that PHO would do that deal. Just MO though. Who knows what Barnett's thinking. This is the guy who signed Savage to a 4 year deal at $3.5M per year.

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04-16-2004, 04:43 PM
  #16
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Yeah I dont think Phoenix would do that deal with Colorado. Its close in value but doesnt help us.

Phoenix has three 2nd's anyway, as bleedgreen said, Taffe will only realistically be dealt as part of a package for a NHLer.. perhaps Jason Smith or Jeff O'Neil.

One of Taffe or Kolanos is likely to leave soon.

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04-17-2004, 02:23 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevex
Yeah I dont think Phoenix would do that deal with Colorado. Its close in value but doesnt help us.

Phoenix has three 2nd's anyway, as bleedgreen said, Taffe will only realistically be dealt as part of a package for a NHLer.. perhaps Jason Smith or Jeff O'Neil.

One of Taffe or Kolanos is likely to leave soon.
I think this was discussed a while ago, but Radek Bonk may be done with the Senators after this season, and Taffe could be fair value going the other way. That would make sense to me. There is some sort of connection between Barnett and Bonk if I'm not wrong.

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04-17-2004, 03:50 PM
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Yes Barnett was Bonk's former agent. I have no doubt he would be keen on trading for him, its been strongely rumored he's tried before. I didnt know Bonk may be available. I would have thought he's the perfect top 2 center with Spezza. Is there a likely pay dispute? What else do you think would have to be added to Taffe to get Bonk?

One problem may be the recent acquisition of Comrie would mean the Coyotes would probably have to trade Langkow.. I dont think they would keep all three.

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04-17-2004, 04:00 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevex
Yes Barnett was Bonk's former agent. I have no doubt he would be keen on trading for him, its been strongely rumored he's tried before. I didnt know Bonk may be available. I would have thought he's the perfect top 2 center with Spezza. Is there a likely pay dispute? What else do you think would have to be added to Taffe to get Bonk?

One problem may be the recent acquisition of Comrie would mean the Coyotes would probably have to trade Langkow.. I dont think they would keep all three.
The Bonk situation is kind of confusing. The general opinion was that Bondra being acquired meant a squeeze in salary, and Smolinski, White, Fisher and whoever else can fill Bonk's void. Now, Bondra may not have his option picked up if he doesn't start doing something, as he has about 1 goal in his last 18 or something. That being said, Bonk hasn't been much better. His contract is up at the end of the year and he'd probably cost roughly 4 mil to bring back. It's not bad for a player of his calibre, but the Sens may not need him.

It's only speculation, but there are many who believe Bonk is gone this summer. I don't know what it would take with Taffe for Bonk, but the Sens don't need depth, so they might try and make it a 2 for 2 type of deal.

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04-18-2004, 09:33 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan
The odds of Jeff Taffe being a good NHL scoring line player are a hell of a lot better than a 2nd round draft pick having a NHL career.
Possibly, but I think that the second-round pick under discussion here (David Backes, whom the Blues chose with the pick they got from Tampa for Stillman) has a pretty good shot at an NHL career also, and on a scoring line. Backes, at this point, seems much more likely than Taffe to develop into a true "power forward" type.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan
The only reason that a team would trade a guy like Taffe is if they think that he's not going to develop. It's WAY, WAY too soon to make that call IMO, especially if you look at Taffe's linemates.
I'm pretty sure the Blues thought Taffe was going to develop. They traded him to get Tkachuk, which in retrospect may have been a mistake... not so much because of Taffe, although he remains a good prospect, but because they overpaid by giving up Handzus and Nagy.

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04-18-2004, 10:23 AM
  #21
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Originally Posted by PrussianBlue
Possibly, but I think that the second-round pick under discussion here (David Backes, whom the Blues chose with the pick they got from Tampa for Stillman) has a pretty good shot at an NHL career also, and on a scoring line. Backes, at this point, seems much more likely than Taffe to develop into a true "power forward" type.
I think its pretty clear Beukeboom Fan isnt referring to any specific 2nd round pick but to a generic 2nd rounder so Backes' credentials are not really relevant.

In any case the point still stands - Taffe is still clearly a better bet to become an NHLer than Backes simply because he's so much further along in his development.

Taffe is not a power forward at all so while it may semantically correct to say Backes is more likely to become one it rather misses the point.. Its like saying Ville Mantymaa is more likely to develop into an offensive defenseman than Taffe (!)

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04-18-2004, 12:14 PM
  #22
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I'd like the Wild to take a chance on Kolanos...

 
Old
04-18-2004, 12:45 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevex
I think its pretty clear Beukeboom Fan isnt referring to any specific 2nd round pick but to a generic 2nd rounder so Backes' credentials are not really relevant.
Uh, no, actually, it's not "pretty clear" at all. The first mention of a second-round pick in this thread was when Frenzy mentioned that the Blues acquired one (that they used for Backes) in exchange for Stillman. BF then said that Taffe was a better option than any second-round pick, or words to that effect.

NOTE: Actually, a second-round pick WAS mentioned in this thread prior to Frenzy's discussion of the second-round pick the Blues got in the Stillman trade, and used to take Backes. Since BF didn't assess the relative likelihood of a stellar NHL future for Taffe vs "a second round pick" until AFTER that mention, however, I think the implication is fairly clear that BF was specifically comparing Taffe to Backes in terms of NHL future.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevex
In any case the point still stands - Taffe is still clearly a better bet to become an NHLer than Backes simply because he's so much further along in his development.
Perhaps Taffe is "further along in his development" than Backes, but Taffe has already had a few opportunities to demonstrate how far he has developed, and hasn't exactly shone in any of them. I conceded that Taffe is a good prospect, but this argument seems to me to be somewhat dismissive of Backes, and I think that's short-sighted.

McKeens and Central Scouting all had very positive things to say about Backes' hockey sense, aggressiveness, and talent last year, when the Blues drafted him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevex
Taffe is not a power forward at all so while it may semantically correct to say Backes is more likely to become one it rather misses the point.. Its like saying Ville Mantymaa is more likely to develop into an offensive defenseman than Taffe (!)
Having followed the Blues closely for a number of years, I think that I can state with some credibility that the Blues originally drafted Taffe in the hopes of his becoming a "power-forward" type of player. Not necessarily a true "power forward" like a Rick Tocchet or a John LeClair in their prime, but a guy who had the size and attitude to pay the price for garbage goals when that's what the team needed.

Maybe you'd like the statement better if I asserted that, at this point in their respective stages of development, Backes appears to have more upside than Taffe, based on Taffe's inability to truly stand out in limited NHL duty. Taffe may well be closer to regular NHL playing time than Backes, but he's no more likely to be a significant player (based on his demonstrated performance to date) than Backes, IMO.

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Last edited by Prussian_Blue: 04-18-2004 at 01:11 PM.
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04-18-2004, 01:24 PM
  #24
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You know what's funny about these threads? You have a young 22 - 23 year old player who is on the cusp of developing into something really good and it seems that people want to get rid of him before he becomes something great. There's no patience with prospects anymore. It's either you have it now or you get dealt. There's no room for development anymore. I feel for Taffe because I think if he's in the right situation, he's going to blossom and become a really good player. I'd say give the man some time. Remember, there's a big jump between playing college hockey and playing in the NHL. I'm surprised people on here aren't jumping on the chance to deal Sjostrom as well.

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04-18-2004, 02:44 PM
  #25
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Sjostrom

Not Freddy.. But Taffe and Special K both in my eyes dont seem to give a dam about playing for the Yotes and do not really seem to be improving since last year.. I know with Special K hes recovering from his injury but I heard from Falcon Fans that he was just being a jerk with the falcons, only playting when he wanted to show boatring the other times but not working on coming back to where he was before.. With Taffe I think if the right team wanted him he could be package with a couple of our 2nd rounders for a good Dminded Dman.. We have Tanabe, Moris and Mara for Offence but we need a true number one Dminded Dman to stop the bleeding.. Thats where Taffe comes into play, he value to the Yotes would be greater if he along with other parts can get us that Dman..

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