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Is Timmins overrated?

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Old
10-31-2009, 12:55 AM
  #1
not quite yoda
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Is Timmins overrated?

Is Timmins overrated?

let's see the players on the team who were drafted by Timmins. How are they performing?

A. Kost-4pts 13 gms
Pacioretty-3pts 13 gms
Lapierre-3pts 13 gms
D'agostiny-1pt 11 gms
Latendresse-1pt 13 gms
Stewart-0pts 2 gms
Chipchura-0pts 11 gms
Obyrne-0pts 2 gms
Halak-2.70 GA .898 Sv
Price-3.44 GA .889 Sv

Not one player looks great statisticaly speaking. And you can say stats aren't everything. maybe but these stats are what decide the games in the end and numbers don't lie.

Timmins has been here since 2003, that's 7 years by June.

Also, look at our core on D:

Markov, Hamrlik, Spacek: none drafted by Timmins.

Also, look at our core at forward:

Gomez, Cammalleri, Gionta, Plekanec (,Metropolit?): none drafted by Timmins.

I'll say that Halak seems very promissing but that's it. And do we have a great elite prospect on the farm who can rival with other teams' stars? Maybe Subban. Maybe. That's 1.

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Old
10-31-2009, 12:58 AM
  #2
kalessin
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This has been discussed ad nauseum...

You can't lay all the blame or praise on Timmins because all he does is draft prospects - player development is whole 'nother ball game.

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Old
10-31-2009, 12:59 AM
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MathMan
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We've had this discussion before numerous times and this has been thoroughly debunked. I'm not going over this again, but I'm going to point out the silliness of evaluating a scout's entire body of work based on a stretch of 11 games.

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Old
10-31-2009, 01:28 AM
  #4
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I have always wonder what is the problem with Montreal. The evaluation or the development.

Its not normal that tonight, none of our D was drafted by the Habs. Just a look at the Chicago D, 4 of them tonight are drafted by the Blackhawks and all under 26. In fact, 5, because Byfuglien was drafted as a D but was converted to play as a forward.

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10-31-2009, 01:35 AM
  #5
Belso
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Quote:
Originally Posted by not quite yoda View Post
Is Timmins overrated?

let's see the players on the team who were drafted by Timmins. How are they performing?

A. Kost-4pts 13 gms
Pacioretty-3pts 13 gms
Lapierre-3pts 13 gms
D'agostiny-1pt 11 gms
Latendresse-1pt 13 gms
Stewart-0pts 2 gms
Chipchura-0pts 11 gms
Obyrne-0pts 2 gms
Halak-2.70 GA .898 Sv
Price-3.44 GA .889 Sv

Not one player looks great statisticaly speaking. And you can say stats aren't everything. maybe but these stats are what decide the games in the end and numbers don't lie.

Timmins has been here since 2003, that's 7 years by June.

Also, look at our core on D:

Markov, Hamrlik, Spacek: none drafted by Timmins.

Also, look at our core at forward:

Gomez, Cammalleri, Gionta, Plekanec (,Metropolit?): none drafted by Timmins.

I'll say that Halak seems very promissing but that's it. And do we have a great elite prospect on the farm who can rival with other teams' stars? Maybe Subban. Maybe. That's 1.
I understand where you are coming from.. He might be overrated. But he doesn't suck either... I have been disappointed with his first round picks.. Let's hope they are all slow to bloom...

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Old
10-31-2009, 01:39 AM
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I understand what they were going for. Cheap offense through the draft and then fill it out with UFA's.

Didn't work and we bypassed some monster players.

I don't necessarily disagree with the BPA concept, I'm just wondering why we missed the players we missed.

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Old
10-31-2009, 01:44 AM
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windycity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
I have always wonder what is the problem with Montreal. The evaluation or the development.

Its not normal that tonight, none of our D was drafted by the Habs. Just a look at the Chicago D, 4 of them tonight are drafted by the Blackhawks and all under 26. In fact, 5, because Byfuglien was drafted as a D but was converted to play as a forward.
well, they generally drafted much higher than we have, that certainly helps

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Old
10-31-2009, 01:58 AM
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Not including drafts since 06, to early.

Andrei Kostitsyn
Mark Streit
Mikhail Grabovski
Jaroslav Halak
Ryan O'Byrne
Sergei Kostitsyn
Matt D'Agostini
Guillaume Latendresse
Kyle Chipchura
Carey Price

- 50+ point defenseman
- Potential franchise goalie and potential number one goalie
- Two time 20+ goal scorer with 30+ upside
- Potential 60 point center (48Pt career high)
- Three 2nd/3rd line offensive upside players,
- Two grinders
- One bottom pair defenseman

Pretty good score from 2003-05, will be interesting to see what guys like Ben Maxwell, David Fischer, Ryan McDonagh, Max Pacioretty, P.K. Subban and Yannick Weber do in development.

Giving lots of rewards at the draft.


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Old
10-31-2009, 02:04 AM
  #9
OneSharpMarble
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Until we get a scout that can spot some elite talent this team will always have mediocre drafting and as long as Gainey is in charge it will always have mediocre trades.

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Old
10-31-2009, 02:26 AM
  #10
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Andrei Kostitsyn - Can't skate
Mark Streit - Terrible defenseman, but PP specialist
Mikhail Grabovski - Second liner
Jaroslav Halak - Decent potential
Ryan O'Byrne - Potential
Sergei Kostitsyn - Can't skate
Matt D'Agostini - No brain, soft
Guillaume Latendresse - Can't skate
Kyle Chipchura - Can't skate
Carey Price - Good potential

This is not gonna get us to the Cup, sorry. Other than Price, I don't see any potential core players there.

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Old
10-31-2009, 02:58 AM
  #11
Ginu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Until we get a scout that can spot some elite talent this team will always have mediocre drafting and as long as Gainey is in charge it will always have mediocre trades.
All your posts seem to be the end of the world. Why do you enjoy being miserable?

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Old
10-31-2009, 02:58 AM
  #12
Quarantesix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by not quite yoda View Post
Is Timmins overrated?

let's see the players on the team who were drafted by Timmins. How are they performing?

A. Kost-4pts 13 gms
Pacioretty-3pts 13 gms
Lapierre-3pts 13 gms
D'agostiny-1pt 11 gms
Latendresse-1pt 13 gms
Stewart-0pts 2 gms
Chipchura-0pts 11 gms
Obyrne-0pts 2 gms
Halak-2.70 GA .898 Sv
Price-3.44 GA .889 Sv

Not one player looks great statisticaly speaking. And you can say stats aren't everything. maybe but these stats are what decide the games in the end and numbers don't lie.

Timmins has been here since 2003, that's 7 years by June.



Also, look at our core on D:

Markov, Hamrlik, Spacek: none drafted by Timmins.

Also, look at our core at forward:

Gomez, Cammalleri, Gionta, Plekanec (,Metropolit?): none drafted by Timmins.

I'll say that Halak seems very promissing but that's it. And do we have a great elite prospect on the farm who can rival with other teams' stars? Maybe Subban. Maybe. That's 1.
most stupid thread I saw in a while
can you take at least other season stat in consideration

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Old
10-31-2009, 03:25 AM
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OneSharpMarble
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
All your posts seem to be the end of the world. Why do you enjoy being miserable?
End of the world? More like same old same old, you think the habs being ****** and mediocre is new? This same junk has been going on for years, this ain't new man. I gave Gainey his 5 years, time to change the guard.

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Old
10-31-2009, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Quarantesix View Post
most stupid thread I saw in a while
can you take at least other season stat in consideration
Errrr, that doesn't change a whole lot of things...

No elite prospect, period.

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Old
10-31-2009, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
Andrei Kostitsyn - Can't skate
Mark Streit - Terrible defenseman, but PP specialist
Mikhail Grabovski - Second liner
Jaroslav Halak - Decent potential
Ryan O'Byrne - Potential
Sergei Kostitsyn - Can't skate
Matt D'Agostini - No brain, soft
Guillaume Latendresse - Can't skate
Kyle Chipchura - Can't skate
Carey Price - Good potential

This is not gonna get us to the Cup, sorry. Other than Price, I don't see any potential core players there.
Funny. Even with Price I don't see any potential core players there.

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Old
10-31-2009, 04:56 AM
  #16
Frank Doby
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The answer to this question: Yes. Our young players are not amongst the best in the league.

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Old
10-31-2009, 05:12 AM
  #17
ECWHSWI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
Mark Streit - Terrible defenseman, but PP specialist.
How many D picked in the 9TH ROUND can get 40+ points per ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
Mikhail Grabovski - Second liner.
a 5th rounder turning into a 2nd liner ? sounds very good to me...


Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
Jaroslav Halak - Decent potential.
considering he to was picked in the 9TH ROUND...

but just so you know, vast majority of the 9th round picks dont play a single game in the NHL...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
Ryan O'Byrne - Potential.
looked like a 4th D before being injured...

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Old
10-31-2009, 05:36 AM
  #18
ECWHSWI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fuhr View Post
Not including drafts since 06, to early.

Andrei Kostitsyn
Mark Streit
Mikhail Grabovski
Jaroslav Halak
Ryan O'Byrne
Sergei Kostitsyn
Matt D'Agostini
Guillaume Latendresse
Kyle Chipchura
Carey Price

- 50+ point defenseman
- Potential franchise goalie and potential number one goalie
- Two time 20+ goal scorer with 30+ upside
- Potential 60 point center (48Pt career high)
- Three 2nd/3rd line offensive upside players,
- Two grinders
- One bottom pair defenseman

Pretty good score from 2003-05, will be interesting to see what guys like Ben Maxwell, David Fischer, Ryan McDonagh, Max Pacioretty, P.K. Subban and Yannick Weber do in development.

Giving lots of rewards at the draft.
and half the players in this list were picked between the 5th and 9th round...

most teams would consider themself lucky to have a 5th or 6th round pick turning into a regular NHLer... Habs managed to get a 2nd liner (Grabovski), a 40+ pts D (Streit), a good goalie (Halak)... not bad at all if you ask me...

I dare anyone to find me a team with a better track record with their 5th to 9th round picks...


If anything, it's in the first two round we have to look at : Cory Urquhart (Bergeron, Carle Weber, O'Sullivan, Backes), Tomas Linhart (Keith, Stajan, Hudler, Christensen, Lombardi), Duncan Milroy (Tyutin, Cammalleri, Pominville, McClement), Marcel Hossa (Orpik, Frolov, Volchenkov, Boyes)

I mean, we manage to turn lots of late round picks into 2nd liners, offensive D, decent goalies, etc... but we cant turn our 1st and 2nd rounders into regular NHLers ? ? ?

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Old
10-31-2009, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
and half the players in this list were picked between the 5th and 9th round...

most teams would consider themself lucky to have a 5th or 6th round pick turning into a regular NHLer... Habs managed to get a 2nd liner (Grabovski), a 40+ pts D (Streit), a good goalie (Halak)... not bad at all if you ask me...

I dare anyone to find me a team with a better track record with their 5th to 9th round picks...


If anything, it's in the first two round we have to look at : Cory Urquhart (Bergeron, Carle Weber, O'Sullivan, Backes), Tomas Linhart (Keith, Stajan, Hudler, Christensen, Lombardi), Duncan Milroy (Tyutin, Cammalleri, Pominville, McClement), Marcel Hossa (Orpik, Frolov, Volchenkov, Boyes)

I mean, we manage to turn lots of late round picks into 2nd liners, offensive D, decent goalies, etc... but we cant turn our 1st and 2nd rounders into regular NHLers ? ? ?
So you are saying that Timmins is terrible at picking players he thinks will be elite but great at picking players he thinks will be mediocre?

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Old
10-31-2009, 08:17 AM
  #20
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LMAO @ this thread !

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Old
10-31-2009, 08:20 AM
  #21
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If your track record in round 1 is bad your not doing your job very well.

Timmins gets an overall C on his performance because in round one he has flat out sucked.

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Old
10-31-2009, 08:53 AM
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Is Timmins overrated? That goes without saying, clearly.

Only in a mickey mouse organization like this is a guy like Timmins given the role of head scout and director of player development.

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10-31-2009, 08:55 AM
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Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by not quite yoda View Post
Is Timmins overrated?

let's see the players on the team who were drafted by Timmins. How are they performing?

A. Kost-4pts 13 gms
Pacioretty-3pts 13 gms
Lapierre-3pts 13 gms
D'agostiny-1pt 11 gms
Latendresse-1pt 13 gms
Stewart-0pts 2 gms
Chipchura-0pts 11 gms
Obyrne-0pts 2 gms
Halak-2.70 GA .898 Sv
Price-3.44 GA .889 Sv

Not one player looks great statisticaly speaking. And you can say stats aren't everything. maybe but these stats are what decide the games in the end and numbers don't lie.

Timmins has been here since 2003, that's 7 years by June.

Also, look at our core on D:

Markov, Hamrlik, Spacek: none drafted by Timmins.

Also, look at our core at forward:

Gomez, Cammalleri, Gionta, Plekanec (,Metropolit?): none drafted by Timmins.

I'll say that Halak seems very promissing but that's it. And do we have a great elite prospect on the farm who can rival with other teams' stars? Maybe Subban. Maybe. That's 1.
So we are supposed to evaluate a head scout based on 13 games regardless of what those players did before or after?

Timmins has been one of the best at his craft since he took over. For whatever reason(s) a lot of our young players in the NHL last year got derailed, maybe that explains Gainey cleaning house in the off season and bringing in high character veterans who have won before.

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Old
10-31-2009, 09:38 AM
  #24
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Some here seem to forget that he's director of players' development also. And the developmental part of the equation has been the issue. Thus, it's his responsibility.

I give him a C-.

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Old
10-31-2009, 09:41 AM
  #25
subbanged
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastScottThornton View Post
Is Timmins overrated? That goes without saying, clearly.

Only in a mickey mouse organization like this is a guy like Timmins given the role of head scout and director of player development.
I truly find you one of the most annoying people on these boards, congratulations you've replaced Leafs fans from the top of the podium

Quote:
Originally Posted by deandebean View Post
Some here seem to forget that he's director of players' development also. And the developmental part of the equation has been the issue. Thus, it's his responsibility.

I give him a C-.
While that may be true, Timmins does not choose when to call them up to play

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