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Old
12-04-2009, 09:04 PM
  #51
I am the Liquor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davalicious View Post
As a 22 year old how many points is Cogs on pace for this year? 23.

Todd Marchant as an old man aged 36 has 7 points at this point. Cogs has 8. And Todd has 4 goals to Andrew's 3.
Cogliano gets to play with an old, soft in the head Moreau every night. Marchant had the young version. They are similar in speed but Todd was much better defensively, and on face-offs. He had hands of stone unlike any other.

Cogliano has more offensive creativity but is horrible on the dot, and doesnt hold a candle to Marchant defensively. Cogs is struggling this year no doubt about it, but I dont think he is playing bad, he just hasnt been put in a position to succeed by either Mact or Quinn. I suspect they want him to pay his dues and become a more complete player before they give him top six time.

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Old
12-04-2009, 09:39 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davalicious View Post
As a 22 year old how many points is Cogs on pace for this year? 23.

Todd Marchant as an old man aged 36 has 7 points at this point. Cogs has 8. And Todd has 4 goals to Andrew's 3.
i seriously can't believe that you're comparing coglianos offensive abilities to marchants, and are backing *marchant* as your horse.... its so crazy that i almost didn't bother responding.... almost....

marchant
career average PPG - 0.45

cogliano
career average PPG - 0.47

stats don't lie.... even though cogliano is very early into his career, he already produces more points per game than marchant has over his career... cogliano's number is very likely to go up as well, since 90% of players have their most productive seasons in the 24-29 age range.... offensively, cogliano is *already* a better player than marchant is/was, and this gap is very likely to increase

an argument could be made that marchant is a better all-around player than cogliano, by comparing the current cogliano to marchants best years that is.... but you would have to wait for another 3-4 years to fairly compare both players peak seasons

but that isn't what you were arguing, you said that because marchant had exactly one season in his career that beat coglianos rookie season offensive numbers, that somehow marchant was the better offensive player.... which is astoundingly incorrect

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Old
12-04-2009, 09:49 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
i seriously can't believe that you're comparing coglianos offensive abilities to marchants, and are backing *marchant* as your horse.... its so crazy that i almost didn't bother responding.... almost....

marchant
career average PPG - 0.45

cogliano
career average PPG - 0.47

stats don't lie.... even though cogliano is very early into his career, he already produces more points per game than marchant has over his career... cogliano's number is very likely to go up as well, since 90% of players have their most productive seasons in the 24-29 age range.... offensively, cogliano is *already* a better player than marchant is/was, and this gap is very likely to increase

an argument could be made that marchant is a better all-around player than cogliano, by comparing the current cogliano to marchants best years that is.... but you would have to wait for another 3-4 years to fairly compare both players peak seasons

but that isn't what you were arguing, you said that because marchant had exactly one season in his career that beat coglianos rookie season offensive numbers, that somehow marchant was the better offensive player.... which is astoundingly incorrect
Sometimes stats do lie. Rob Brown was HOF'er on Lemieux's wing. Rob Brown is no HOF'er.

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Old
12-04-2009, 10:01 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
i seriously can't believe that you're comparing coglianos offensive abilities to marchants, and are backing *marchant* as your horse.... its so crazy that i almost didn't bother responding.... almost....

marchant
career average PPG - 0.45

cogliano
career average PPG - 0.47

stats don't lie.... even though cogliano is very early into his career, he already produces more points per game than marchant has over his career... cogliano's number is very likely to go up as well, since 90% of players have their most productive seasons in the 24-29 age range.... offensively, cogliano is *already* a better player than marchant is/was, and this gap is very likely to increase

an argument could be made that marchant is a better all-around player than cogliano, by comparing the current cogliano to marchants best years that is.... but you would have to wait for another 3-4 years to fairly compare both players peak seasons

but that isn't what you were arguing, you said that because marchant had exactly one season in his career that beat coglianos rookie season offensive numbers, that somehow marchant was the better offensive player.... which is astoundingly incorrect
In the first place I was just saying a player that fit the description that Walsher gave of Cogliano who I quoted earlier. I never once said that Cogliano would never be better than Marchant. I also said that Cogliano has 3 years (in my opinion) to prove me that he can post up those kind of points. Once he proves to me he can consistently put up decent numbers I will say yes he is better. Maybe I will be wrong and Cogliano will have better offensive numbers but Marchant overall game is of much higher quality in my opinion than Cogliano from what I have seen SO FAR. Cogliano's PPG will likely fall lower this year in my opinion. He is on pace for 23 points in 82 games. That's what? 0.28 PPG?

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Old
12-04-2009, 10:14 PM
  #55
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I don't quite understand these boards. Why is everyone always trying their hardest to talk down Cogliano and how he won't be any good. Yet will defend Gagner till their death.

Can't they just both be good potential players?

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Old
12-04-2009, 10:40 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davegagnerskid View Post
Sometimes stats do lie. Rob Brown was HOF'er on Lemieux's wing. Rob Brown is no HOF'er.
but only a fool would only look at browns stats when playing with 66.... the smart thing would be to look at his career stats, paying particular attention to his time away from mario

just like it would be foolish to only look at marchants 1 season over 40 points (his 60 point season) and declare that he is a 60 point player, rather than the 35 point player he was at the height of his career


Quote:
Originally Posted by Davalicious View Post
In the first place I was just saying a player that fit the description that Walsher gave of Cogliano who I quoted earlier. I never once said that Cogliano would never be better than Marchant. I also said that Cogliano has 3 years (in my opinion) to prove me that he can post up those kind of points. Once he proves to me he can consistently put up decent numbers I will say yes he is better. Maybe I will be wrong and Cogliano will have better offensive numbers but Marchant overall game is of much higher quality in my opinion than Cogliano from what I have seen SO FAR. Cogliano's PPG will likely fall lower this year in my opinion. He is on pace for 23 points in 82 games. That's what? 0.28 PPG?
but cogliano *already has* better offensive numbers... i don't get whats so hard to understand about this... i know the single season numbers favor marchant, but as i said in my response to davegagnerskid, it is exceptionally foolish to only look at a players single best season when determining their offensive abilities

and yes, if cogliano's PPG stays the same for the rest of the season (currently 0.29), it will drag down his career PPG to 0.43 (if he plays a full 82 games again this year).... but that would only be 0.02 lower than marchants career PPG, and cogliano's best years are very likely ahead of him still.... again, cogliano is the better offensive player, end of story

also, im not arguing that hes the better all around player, we are in agreement that marchant (so far) has proven to be the more effective defensive player as well as on faceoffs.... but again, when we make this comparison, we are comparing marchants best years to coglianos rookie and sophmore seasons - hardly a fair comparison at all

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Old
12-04-2009, 11:08 PM
  #57
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People who sit here and tell us that Cogliano will '*only* ever be as good as Marchant' are waaaay out too lunch.

There is NOT a single NHL GM under the sun who would be unhappy about drafting a Marchant re-incarnate.

Toddy Marchant is ONE hell of a hockey player. He's a Champion for a reason.

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Old
12-05-2009, 12:58 AM
  #58
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I think Cogliano needs to get away from Moreau before he is really able to do anything productive. I'd like to see Cogliano on a line with Stone rather than Moreau.

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Old
12-05-2009, 01:19 AM
  #59
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Cogs is not going to make it in this league on the bottom 2 lines. That's become obvious so the Marchant comparisons are pretty pointless.

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Old
12-05-2009, 03:58 AM
  #60
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Cogliano is playing steller right now... the turnovers he is causing with is speed is crazy. He caused the Detroit D to make some very uncharactoristic turnovers because of how quickly he ate up the ice in the neutral zone.

I think he has been an under rated player in alot of games this season... mostly because of his lack of production.

But hes doing a ton right on the defensive side of the puck... hes a + player on a very minus team.. i dont notice HUGE defensive plays, but thats because his speed makes it easier for him to be in position... not alot of GA when hes on the ice

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