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#26: Capitals at Flyers - December 5, 2009 - 7:00 PM (ET)

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12-06-2009, 01:24 PM
  #976
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Anyone else hear on WIP today? Pronger was furious at Lavy saying with this coaching staff we arent going anywhere with. I just dont think their used to a coach yelling and other things Stevens didnt do. Should be interesting.
Here we go....

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12-06-2009, 01:26 PM
  #977
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
If it was a suckerpunch then it would be roughing, not fighting + the instigator. So, no, he didn't get what he deserved. The refs twisted the rulebook to award the largest PP they could.
When you're a player of reputation, and a marked trouble maker, you'll never get the benefit of the doubt on those plays. I had the same conversations about Patrick Kaleta and Colby Armstrong last week. When this is the role you play on the team, you need to be able to play off the players, play of the refs' tendencies and use it to your advantage. Carcillo doesn't know how to do it. And if he doesn't figure it out, he'll be out of the league. It's a long way down from playing this role in the NHL, and doing it while riding buses and making roughly 80-90% less, in the AHL.

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12-06-2009, 01:31 PM
  #978
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Anyone else hear on WIP today? Pronger was furious at Lavy saying with this coaching staff we arent going anywhere with. I just dont think their used to a coach yelling and other things Stevens didnt do. Should be interesting.
I would like to hear it all, because we don't need any more of this ****. The fact that it's Pronger is interesting because it doesn't seem like he was a huge John Stevens guy or had any loyalty since he just got here.

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12-06-2009, 01:32 PM
  #979
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Originally Posted by bakunin View Post
Jeez. I can't believe how everybody is ripping Carcillo for that terrible, terrible effort.

No way he should get suspended btw. Bradley dropped the gloves. It's not Carcillos fault the other retard can't fight.
He didn't have a chance to fight, Carcillo was throwing before Bradley was prepared. Keep in mind Bradley threw a clean hit, he had NO obligation to fight.


And because you drop your gloves, doesn't mean you get a major for fighting.

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12-06-2009, 01:32 PM
  #980
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Sounds like Pronger is causing all the problems in the locker room.. now he's bashing the new coach?

what the effff

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12-06-2009, 01:32 PM
  #981
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The players don't have to like the coach. he's not there to be your friend or buddy. He's there to lead and guide you. He needs the teams respect

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12-06-2009, 01:33 PM
  #982
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Anyone else hear on WIP today? Pronger was furious at Lavy saying with this coaching staff we arent going anywhere with. I just dont think their used to a coach yelling and other things Stevens didnt do. Should be interesting.
I find it hard to believe that such judgment would be made by him after one game. He might still be pissed at Laviolette considering Pronger was one of the guys on the Oilers who watched Laviolette raise the Cup in 2006.

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12-06-2009, 01:35 PM
  #983
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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
I would like to hear it all, because we don't need any more of this ****. The fact that it's Pronger is interesting because it doesn't seem like he was a huge John Stevens guy or had any loyalty since he just got here.
I cant really recall it word for word because I only heard apart of it and needed to turn off the radio cause I was leaving my room to go somewhere. But I was 100% sure it was Pronger on Lavy and Pronger not liking the way Lavy coaches. Im sure on that part.

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12-06-2009, 01:38 PM
  #984
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Originally Posted by Charlie_Girl View Post
You guys all know what I think of Carcillo (and did before he was ever a Flyer). But he has been good this year, except in Buffalo and last night. Those moments are the Carcillo I expected.

If (and only if) he sticks to the game, he can be just fine in an energy role - he's shown it this year. I think he does deserve one more chance. But I also think he needs to earn his ice time. I think he should get a handful of shifts in his first game (likely after a suspension), increasing game by game as he shows he deserves it.
I felt the same way about Carcillo, hated the Flyers for bringing him here based on the things he did in the OHL. However, he's been very good for them for the most part this year.

Richards talking to him last night and telling him he had to face the media is a step in the right direction. Don't want to face the music for a dumb move? Don't make the dumb move! Now it's up to Laviolette to deal with him. At it to the list of a million things Laviolette has to do with the team and its members.

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12-06-2009, 01:39 PM
  #985
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I find it hard to believe that such judgment would be made by him after one game. He might still be pissed at Laviolette considering Pronger was one of the guys on the Oilers who watched Laviolette raise the Cup in 2006.
Yeah, really. If Pronger has made such a judgment after one game then he is a problem. No disrespect to sa cyred, but I think he may have misunderstood things.

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12-06-2009, 01:39 PM
  #986
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
I cant really recall it word for word because I only heard apart of it and needed to turn off the radio cause I was leaving my room to go somewhere. But I was 100% sure it was Pronger on Lavy and Pronger not liking the way Lavy coaches. Im sure on that part.
I'm gonna have to say that you misheard. Meltzer has nothing on his recent blog and Tim hasn't twittered or wrote anything.

Perhaps they were referencing something Pronger said about Stevens in the days leading up to his firing?

Anyway, Bill on Carcillo:

Quote:
On last night's play, it looked like Matt Bradley got his stick up on Dan Carcillo along the boards, causing Carcillo to drill Bradley with a pair of cross-checks and then rough him until Bradley dropped the gloves just in time to get kayoed by a single punch by Carcillo. While Carcillo deserved each and every penalty he received, it was a joke for Stephane Auger to essentially reward Bradley and the Caps because he got knocked out with one punch. Bradley was a willing participant in the fight and it was on him to be set when he dropped the gloves.

At absolute minimum, Bradley should have gotten an unsportsmanlike conduct minor. More appropriately, Washington should have had a four-minute power play on canceling fighting majors plus the minors on Carcillo.
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-...-6-09/45/24751

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12-06-2009, 01:40 PM
  #987
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Anyone else hear on WIP today? Pronger was furious at Lavy saying with this coaching staff we arent going anywhere with. I just dont think their used to a coach yelling and other things Stevens didnt do. Should be interesting.
Was this Pronger talking on WIP, or hearsay coming across WIP?

I would be shocked if Pronger was publicly ripping a guy after he'd been in town for 24 hrs and hadn't run a real practice yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
He didn't have a chance to fight, Carcillo was throwing before Bradley was prepared. Keep in mind Bradley threw a clean hit, he had NO obligation to fight.


And because you drop your gloves, doesn't mean you get a major for fighting.
Quote:
“It happened pretty quick,” Carcillo explained. “I don’t know why he waited so long to drop his gloves. Once you see the gloves off as a fighter, you don’t wait to get punched. You punch.”

Bradley said after the game that it "may have been" his own fault.

“I hadn’t dropped my gloves yet,” Bradley said. “Maybe it’s my fault for not expecting that but I was willing to fight him but obviously I didn’t get started.”
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/f...ts_a_call.html

Look, I don't like having Carcillo on this team, and I think he was an idiot for going after Bradley following the hit. However, I agree with him as far as the fight goes, and it appears Bradley does as well. You don't sit around and wait to get hit as a matter of courtesy, this isn't some 18th c. duel. The ref screwed up the call, and rewarded the Caps because Bradley got knocked the F out because he wasn't quick enough to the punch (literally). It should have been a 4 min PP and matching fighting majors, as Bradley was willing to fight, he just got hit before he could act on that.

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12-06-2009, 01:43 PM
  #988
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
I'm gonna have to say that you misheard. Meltzer has nothing on his recent blog and Tim hasn't twittered or wrote anything.

Perhaps they were referencing something Pronger said about Stevens in the days leading up to his firing?

Anyway, Bill on Carcillo:



http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-...-6-09/45/24751

Ill respond back when I get ahold of my friend. He heard the whole thing. I'll try to get the word for word.

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12-06-2009, 01:44 PM
  #989
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I don't think they like each other, because Pronger thinks Richards stinks as a captain, and Richards thinks Pronger is trying to steal his C.
Link?

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12-06-2009, 01:48 PM
  #990
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Look, I don't like having Carcillo on this team, and I think he was an idiot for going after Bradley following the hit. However, I agree with him as far as the fight goes, and it appears Bradley does as well. You don't sit around and wait to get hit as a matter of courtesy, this isn't some 18th c. duel. The ref screwed up the call, and rewarded the Caps because Bradley got knocked the F out because he wasn't quick enough to the punch (literally). It should have been a 4 min PP and matching fighting majors, as Bradley was willing to fight, he just got hit before he could act on that.


Carcillo didn't allow him to have his guard up. If you're gonna fight look like a man and not like a coward. No need to argue about this, Carcillo screwed up big time, hopefully for the last time.

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12-06-2009, 01:51 PM
  #991
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Was this Pronger talking on WIP, or hearsay coming across WIP?

I would be shocked if Pronger was publicly ripping a guy after he'd been in town for 24 hrs and hadn't run a real practice yet.





http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/f...ts_a_call.html

Look, I don't like having Carcillo on this team, and I think he was an idiot for going after Bradley following the hit. However, I agree with him as far as the fight goes, and it appears Bradley does as well. You don't sit around and wait to get hit as a matter of courtesy, this isn't some 18th c. duel. The ref screwed up the call, and rewarded the Caps because Bradley got knocked the F out because he wasn't quick enough to the punch (literally). It should have been a 4 min PP and matching fighting majors, as Bradley was willing to fight, he just got hit before he could act on that.
Doesn't matter, he threw before Bradley was ready. The proper thing to do would be to allow Bradley to be ready, but Bradley threw a clean hit and Carcillo went after him like it was dirty. I don't care what it should have been, it's what it ended up, and it's THAT reason I've repeated ad nauseum as to why Carcillo shouldn't be here.

Carcillo's assessment of the situation is wrong (which doesn't surprise me since the guy is an idiot), because he didn't see Bradley's gloves off before fighting, because Carcillo clearly had his glove off first, hence the instigator. He put himself in that position by not properly allowing Bradley to be able to defend himself. It was a lack of respect, and I have zero sympathy for players who get made an example of, and if it means unfair penalties, hopefully next time he thinks about "what is the right thing to do," based on his history, I'm not counting on that. When Powe and Gagne come back, hopefully Carcillo becomes best friends with Cote, because they're going to watch a lot of games together from the press box. I predict Laviolette will have a much shorter leash. Laviolette didn't exactly defend him like Stevens would have in the press conference. I see from Carcillo's view that if he thought it was a dirty play, then he wouldn't allow it, but that doesn't excuse him. He was wrong, and he was wrong in what he said, not in principle, but just indisputable facts.

The right call was still made in my view regardless. 9-minute power plays have been handed out before. Just because your gloves are off, doesn't mean you get a fighting major. He might have been willing, he wasn't given a chance to, it wasn't a fair fight. That idiot Coatesy had it wrong too. It's not the first time it's ever happened. And if Carcillo is (hopefully) suspended, it won't even be a matter of opinion.

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12-06-2009, 01:54 PM
  #992
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Bradley admitted he was willing tofight might help with suspensionsthough

I also dont think Carcillo should have gotten a fightint major for 1 punch. maybe 4 for rouging and across check for a 6 min PP

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12-06-2009, 01:55 PM
  #993
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
The right call was still made in my view regardless. 9-minute power plays have been handed out before. Just because your gloves are off, doesn't mean you get a fighting major. He might have been willing, he wasn't given a chance to, it wasn't a fair fight. That idiot Coatesy had it wrong too. It's not the first time it's ever happened. And if Carcillo is (hopefully) suspended, it won't even be a matter of opinion.
He doesn't deserve suspended. You always get way too worked up whenever anything physical happens. Even Meltzer, who is as even-keeled as they come, thought that Bradley got his stick up during the hit. And, any way, they both wanted to fight and Bradley all but admitted that it was his fault for not getting his hands up in time.

It should have been a 4 minute PP. That's it.

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12-06-2009, 01:58 PM
  #994
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This. So, again, to all of you people who cheered for a person getting hurt like that, go **** yourself.
uberdittos, dude. I've been embarrassed to be a Philadelphian before, but that broke a new barrier in asinine.

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12-06-2009, 02:02 PM
  #995
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Take it for what it's worth but my friends cousin was dating Jeff Carter (this is a fact since I met him at a thanksgiving dinner) and apparently Scottie Upshall started talking to her and she dumped Carter and started hanging out with Upshall more. Thus causing a rift between those two which led to Upshall being traded. That's the part that I was told and I don't know for 100% certainty.
That is crazy!

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12-06-2009, 02:03 PM
  #996
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Carcillo didn't allow him to have his guard up. If you're gonna fight look like a man and not like a coward. No need to argue about this, Carcillo screwed up big time, hopefully for the last time.
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Doesn't matter, he threw before Bradley was ready. The proper thing to do would be to allow Bradley to be ready, but Bradley threw a clean hit and Carcillo went after him like it was dirty. I don't care what it should have been, it's what it ended up, and it's THAT reason I've repeated ad nauseum as to why Carcillo shouldn't be here.

Carcillo's assessment of the situation is wrong (which doesn't surprise me since the guy is an idiot), because he didn't see Bradley's gloves off before fighting, because Carcillo clearly had his glove off first, hence the instigator. He put himself in that position by not properly allowing Bradley to be able to defend himself. It was a lack of respect, and I have zero sympathy for players who get made an example of, and if it means unfair penalties, hopefully next time he thinks about "what is the right thing to do," based on his history, I'm not counting on that. When Powe and Gagne come back, hopefully Carcillo becomes best friends with Cote, because they're going to watch a lot of games together from the press box. I predict Laviolette will have a much shorter leash. Laviolette didn't exactly defend him like Stevens would have in the press conference. I see from Carcillo's view that if he thought it was a dirty play, then he wouldn't allow it, but that doesn't excuse him. He was wrong, and he was wrong in what he said, not in principle, but just indisputable facts.
Well, the next time each of you is in a fight, I hope you stick your chin out and wait to get punched before you decide it's go time. This view completely ignores the reality of what is going on when you're engaging in fisticuffs.

And, look, I'm not a fan of fighting and would have no problem if they outlawed it from the NHL. But as long as it's in there, and you're out there against a guy like Carcillo and you're dropping your gloves...you better be ready, rather than friggin leaving your head exposed. If you don't think they both knew what was up when Carcillo threw that punch, you're deluding yourself. You don't need to stand in a defenseless position to get your gloves off, which is what Bradley did. And you don't need to wait around for the other guy to hit you first.

Quote:
The right call was still made in my view regardless. 9-minute power plays have been handed out before. Just because your gloves are off, doesn't mean you get a fighting major. He might have been willing, he wasn't given a chance to, it wasn't a fair fight. That idiot Coatesy had it wrong too. It's not the first time it's ever happened. And if Carcillo is (hopefully) suspended, it won't even be a matter of opinion.
The 9-minute PP was egregious. Bradley wasn't an innocent bystander, he was an idiot. And he admitted as much.

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12-06-2009, 02:03 PM
  #997
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Bradley admitted he was willing tofight might help with suspensionsthough
I didn't say he wasn't willing, I said he wasn't given an opportunity to fight. If you drop your gloves, you're willing, but that doesn't mean you're able to fight. I've seen it on the NHL-level, I've seen it live at the AHL-level, in a Calder Cup final clinching game no less.

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I also dont think Carcillo should have gotten a fightint major for 1 punch. maybe 4 for rouging and across check for a 6 min PP
He threw a punch and knocked the guy out. That's fighting. Sometimes they'll be conservative with these penalties, but Carcillo, they have no reason to do that. This is the guy who was given a game misconduct for unsportsmanlike conduct. He's going to get hit hard by the book every single time. And a player like him needs to know that and be able to avoid that. There are a lot of players in this league who know how to do it without taking 29 minutes in penalties.

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12-06-2009, 02:04 PM
  #998
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that'd be sick chilling with Jeff at thanksgiving dinner.

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12-06-2009, 02:04 PM
  #999
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Anyone else hear on WIP today? Pronger was furious at Lavy saying with this coaching staff we arent going anywhere with. I just dont think their used to a coach yelling and other things Stevens didnt do. Should be interesting.
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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
I would like to hear it all, because we don't need any more of this ****. The fact that it's Pronger is interesting because it doesn't seem like he was a huge John Stevens guy or had any loyalty since he just got here.
The quotes from Pronger yesterday regarding Stevens sure made it seem like Pronger thought the wrong guy got sent packing.

Quote:
“It’s disappointing it had to come to this,” Pronger said from his South Jersey home. “What is essentially, whether it be a wake-up call or however you want to legitimize it, it obviously is directed at the players and the way we played.

“Unfortunately, it cost John his job. That’s the sad part.”

“It just depends on the team and where the roster is and all that,” Pronger said. “Sometimes it’s a trade, sometimes it’s firing the coach. We’ve only been in the cap system going on five years now, it hasn’t been that long. At the end of the day, with players’ salaries and what not, it’s a lot easier to use the coach as a scapegoat.

“At the end of the day, the players didn’t get the job done … this is essentially a shot at us that we didn’t do the job.”
I fear this may be a case of the old veteran who had to work for what he got being disdainful of the young whippersnappers who have their big dollars without really having accomplished anything.

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12-06-2009, 02:10 PM
  #1000
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
The quotes from Pronger yesterday regarding Stevens sure made it seem like Pronger thought the wrong guy got sent packing.



I fear this may be a case of the old veteran who had to work for what he got being disdainful of the young whippersnappers who have their big dollars without really having accomplished anything.
Pronger was in the league as an 18 year-old. If anything, Richards and Carter had to work more. Also, Pronger was playing in the era of 10 million dollar salaries. Not that he didn't deserve every contract he signed, but it's not like he was some grinder getting paid 150k a year in the 1980s.

And, as much as we love him, Pronger is just as susceptible to bouts of "superstar ego" as everyone else. Just ask Edmonton.

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