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Game 29 | Colorado at Columbus | 7pm at the Nat | Quotation Edition

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Old
12-06-2009, 01:58 PM
  #451
Feicht
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJalltheway View Post
That doesn't often make sense to do right in front of the net. I think its more complicated that you and Sprague are making it out to be.
Of course, but I'm not talking about Commodore standing in front of the net and having it go off his skates from a bank shot behind the net, that's something else entirely.

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12-06-2009, 03:42 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
Lee - from what I saw Filatov was crucified whenever he made a mistake. If a guy keeps making the same mistake - you obviously have to teach him. But if you sit play a 19 YO talented player 6-8 minutes per game - he's not even getting a chance to make a mistake.

Just my $.02
The 19 YO does need lots of ice time to correct his mistakes so he can play at the next level. The problem is, he hasn't earned a lot of NHL ice time. He should be getting lots of ice time in the AHL where his mistakes don't cost the big club. That is, afterall, our developmental team. We should have assigned him to Juniors last season and then the AHL this season to get used to the smaller ice and more physical game. You don't just play big minutes to learn how to play the game ahead of players who already know how to and are doing it.

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12-06-2009, 04:09 PM
  #453
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Thinking back, I wonder if the first nail in this coffin was calling the kid up from the minors just to sit in the pressbox during our 4 and out playoff "run".

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12-06-2009, 04:17 PM
  #454
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Originally Posted by Feicht View Post
Thinking back, I wonder if the first nail in this coffin was calling the kid up from the minors just to sit in the pressbox during our 4 and out playoff "run".
Yeah, I still don't understand that. He should have stayed in Syracuse and HELPED THE TEAM get to the playoffs and experience the more intense playoff atmosphere actually playing the game. Learn what it takes to battle through the playoffs.

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12-06-2009, 04:38 PM
  #455
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Originally Posted by Feicht View Post
Thinking back, I wonder if the first nail in this coffin was calling the kid up from the minors just to sit in the pressbox during our 4 and out playoff "run".
And if I remember correctly, he was sitting there for days until anyone from the coaching staff said him what the plans for him were. I'd say that was a big first nail to his coffin right there.

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12-06-2009, 06:55 PM
  #456
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Aaron Portzline:
GM Scott Howson: Any talk that CBJ coach Ken Hitchcock could be on the hot seat is "ludicrous."

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12-06-2009, 07:19 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by leesmith View Post
Aaron Portzline:
GM Scott Howson: Any talk that CBJ coach Ken Hitchcock could be on the hot seat is "ludicrous."
I like the word ludicrous.

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12-06-2009, 07:44 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by CBJalltheway View Post
I like the word ludicrous.
When accompanied with the word 'speed' it's even better.

*ass successfully kissed*

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12-06-2009, 07:55 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by CBJalltheway View Post
I like the word ludicrous.
Isn't he a musician or something?

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12-06-2009, 08:02 PM
  #460
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Originally Posted by eljefe72 View Post
Isn't he a musician or something?
No. He's a rapper.

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12-06-2009, 08:06 PM
  #461
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No. He's a rapper.
Just for fun, I'll claim that a rapper is a musician.

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12-06-2009, 08:19 PM
  #462
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Originally Posted by Monk View Post
Just for fun, I'll claim that a rapper is a musician.
Next you'll be saying that drummers are musicians, too.

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12-06-2009, 08:59 PM
  #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlienLanes82 View Post
JacketsFanWest,

I appreciate your perspective, because I also hate stupid cliches, and I also don't think that a losing streak in and of itself, or even being a team low in the standings, means you're not "hungry enough."

I also agree that sometimes winning in shots on goal signify something positive. Tonight was not that night.

Whatever you want to call it - "hunger", "spirit", "determination", "weightyness" - it's absence was palpable tonight. Most players showed no focus and little energy. Our 31 shots were not indicative of either offensive creativity, or winning puck battles, or dangerous scoring opportunities. I'll grant that the last ten minutes of the third, they finally found some desire, and it showed. I also thought that the first ten minutes of the second involved some good hockey. The first period, and the second after the Colorado goal were God awful. The third was terrible until the Chimera goal, which finally seemed to light fire under them. Right before the goal, I heard someone behind me remark "they've given up", and it was true.

I don't know if the players have tuned out the coaches, or if the coaches don't know how to key up the players, but this is just awful hockey - low intensity, low focus, low energy.

I agree 100%. The team's play was so flat that people in my row were joking about giving coincidental minors to both teams for boredom.

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Originally Posted by leesmith View Post
Is this the same Tressel whose team just won the Big Ten outright and is going to the Rose Bowl?!?
You should know by now most fans want to win the flashy way and rack up lots of style points, like USC. It's not as fun to win the surest way. On the other hand, hell hath no fury like a fan whose team just lost a game they should have won, like USC does every year. For all of Pete Carroll's entertaining BS, Carroll and Tressel have won the exact same number of BCS championships and in the same number of seasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feicht View Post
Thinking back, I wonder if the first nail in this coffin was calling the kid up from the minors just to sit in the pressbox during our 4 and out playoff "run".
Quote:
Originally Posted by frito View Post
Yeah, I still don't understand that. He should have stayed in Syracuse and HELPED THE TEAM get to the playoffs and experience the more intense playoff atmosphere actually playing the game. Learn what it takes to battle through the playoffs.

I think you might find this happened when his mother visited. Shortly after her arrival there were whispers about his unhappiness in Syracuse. I understood he was called up because he and mom were threatening to go back to Mother Russia at the end of last season. AIUI, the Filatovs felt he had earned the right to get out of Syracuse and never go back. Howson relented and as it turned out, they weren't just threatening. They either get their way or else- KHL bound

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Old
12-06-2009, 09:50 PM
  #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leek View Post
I think you might find this happened when his mother visited. Shortly after her arrival there were whispers about his unhappiness in Syracuse. I understood he was called up because he and mom were threatening to go back to Mother Russia at the end of last season. AIUI, the Filatovs felt he had earned the right to get out of Syracuse and never go back. Howson relented and as it turned out, they weren't just threatening. They either get their way or else- KHL bound
Yep, and if he wants to stick by that attitude he can stay in Mother Russia as far as I'm concerned. This league isn't for the faint of heart nor for the player that doesn't want to play in all three zones. A lot of goals with a huge - in the +/- category does no good for the team overall. He likes the open ice over there and the time and space he is afforded. That just doesn't exist over here and the sooner he figures that out the sooner he will be playing in what his fellow countryman Alex Ovechin calls the greatest league in the world.

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12-06-2009, 10:25 PM
  #465
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Originally Posted by EDM View Post
Pluckfor, you don't remember anybody quitting on Doug Maclean? You have got to be kidding me. How about the whole team? You don't recall how this team was playing in December when Doug tried to be the coach? Hint, it looked a lot like now. There is a reason that Doug fired himself and inserted Gallant. Even Doug with his monstrous ego realized he had lost the team. I really cannot believe what I am reading on this board. Favorable recollections of Doug Maclean? My lord.

It is really that hard to see? The team has quit on Hitchcock. Heck, even Hitchcock is saying the team has quit on him. And when that happens, you fire the coach. It is not personal. It is not saying Hitch molests little girls. It is just business. Hitch will do quite well in "retirement". He has 3 years guaranteed. But you can't fire all the players. Especially on this team with all the multi-year contracts. so the coach goes. It has happened before. All three of our prior coaches were fired during the season. I happens several times each year around the entire NHL.

This team has a very good measure of talent. But they are not even making a colorable effort anymore. I don't know what happened, no one outside of the internal CBJ environment knows for sure. But roughly around the time Filatov left (I AM NOT SAYING THAT FILATOV'S DEPARTURE IS PART OF A CAUSE/EFFECT RELATIONSHIP) something about the dynamic of the relationship between Hitch and the players changed very, very badly. They really have just tuned him out. But there is no way to turn it around, (no Stevie Saviour is going to fall out of the sky this year) other than to make a change with the coach.

As that post discussing head coach candidates makes clear, there are a lot of good, young HC candidates out there. To me Dino would be almost perfect. Just the announcement of his name would energize the fan base. He is an old school guy who after five successful years in the AHL has learned to translate his passion to young players. (That is the key behind my support for him). And he has CBJ blood inside of him. Yes, I believe that the appointment of Dino would cause a turnaround in this club. And it would be almost immediate. We would make the playoffs with him because he would take the large amount of talent we have and channel it constructively.
Dude, this is now the 3rd season you've insisted upon referring to me as "Pluckfor." Can't you read? Or are you still laboring under the delusion that you're being amusing? Just curious.

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Old
12-06-2009, 10:36 PM
  #466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
I'm a Footer fan and his absence on D is certainly felt.
But we did get 2 pics which got us RJ Umberger from Philly.

I've never heard that Hitchcock "requested" that Howson get the deal done.
Source?
Which is fine JF. My point was that Howson traded away the C and an A from a team and brought back NO bodies to a club and a roster fighting for a playoff spot for the first time in franchise history. Unforgivable IMO. I have never had a problem with getting Umberger with the Foote pick - the idiot move was the timing.

Hitch was quoted as saying he'd asked Howson to retain Foote. It is somewhere in Puckrakers and Dispatch archives. You can elect to disbelieve me, ask Arace or Portzline personally, or dig back on your own.

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Old
12-06-2009, 10:46 PM
  #467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pluckfur View Post
Which is fine JF. My point was that Howson traded away the C and an A from a team and brought back NO bodies to a club and a roster fighting for a playoff spot for the first time in franchise history. Unforgivable IMO. I have never had a problem with getting Umberger with the Foote pick - the idiot move was the timing.

Hitch was quoted as saying he'd asked Howson to retain Foote. It is somewhere in Puckrakers and Dispatch archives. You can elect to disbelieve me, ask Arace or Portzline personally, or dig back on your own.
JF, I recall this vividly as well. I thought Hitch was nuts, but it's another example of how Howson is not Hitch's puppet.

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Old
12-06-2009, 11:29 PM
  #468
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Originally Posted by Pluckfur View Post
Which is fine JF. My point was that Howson traded away the C and an A from a team and brought back NO bodies to a club and a roster fighting for a playoff spot for the first time in franchise history. Unforgivable IMO. I have never had a problem with getting Umberger with the Foote pick - the idiot move was the timing.

Hitch was quoted as saying he'd asked Howson to retain Foote. It is somewhere in Puckrakers and Dispatch archives. You can elect to disbelieve me, ask Arace or Portzline personally, or dig back on your own.
Pluck, that team was not making the playoffs. They might have had a chance had Howson been able to pull off the Richards deal, but the fact was that the team fell like a stone after the All Star break to the point that our coach was walking out of practices in frustration.

Was Howson supposed to let all of his impending UFA's walk out the door to maybe make the playoffs and get swept in 4 games? That would have been horrible asset management. We don't end up with Umberger in that case, who more than replaced Fedorov's production. We let Foote go, and acquired Commodore. I'm not his biggest fan, but the fact was that last year he played no worse than Adam Foote.

Beyond that, that was the year the owner's had a pow-wow with Howson before the deadline as I recall. I think the orders were--get a player that makes this team a sure-fire playoff team or cut salary for the remainder of the year. We'll never know for sure.

And we'll also never know for sure what the negotiation situation was with Foote. Its always seemed to me he set his price intentionally high because he didn't want to come back. The only way he was staying was for a huge overpayment.

There are plenty of things to question Howson about such as the desperation signing of Huselius who never has fit the Hitchcock mold or the overpayment of Mike Commodore that same summer. But I'm not going to go back and second guess the whole Foote situation when none of us really know what happened in that negotiating room.

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12-06-2009, 11:40 PM
  #469
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
Pluck, that team was not making the playoffs. They might have had a chance had Howson been able to pull off the Richards deal, but the fact was that the team fell like a stone after the All Star break to the point that our coach was walking out of practices in frustration.

Was Howson supposed to let all of his impending UFA's walk out the door to maybe make the playoffs and get swept in 4 games? That would have been horrible asset management. We don't end up with Umberger in that case, who more than replaced Fedorov's production. We let Foote go, and acquired Commodore. I'm not his biggest fan, but the fact was that last year he played no worse than Adam Foote.

Beyond that, that was the year the owner's had a pow-wow with Howson before the deadline as I recall. I think the orders were--get a player that makes this team a sure-fire playoff team or cut salary for the remainder of the year. We'll never know for sure.

And we'll also never know for sure what the negotiation situation was with Foote. Its always seemed to me he set his price intentionally high because he didn't want to come back. The only way he was staying was for a huge overpayment.

There are plenty of things to question Howson about such as the desperation signing of Huselius who never has fit the Hitchcock mold or the overpayment of Mike Commodore that same summer. But I'm not going to go back and second guess the whole Foote situation when none of us really know what happened in that negotiating room.
I don't have the energy to re-argue franchise history. I don't expect Howson to fire Hitch ... and I know damn well ownership isn't going to fire Howson. I'm tired of all the crap - ALL the crap. And I very much believe that nothing is going to change all the LOSING until our Captain and his team decide they are ashamed of, and tired of, playing like a bunch of poo piles.

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12-06-2009, 11:46 PM
  #470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pluckfur View Post
I don't have the energy to re-argue franchise history. I don't expect Howson to fire Hitch ... and I know damn well ownership isn't going to fire Howson. I'm tired of all the crap - ALL the crap. And I very much believe that nothing is going to change all the LOSING until our Captain and his team decide they are ashamed of, and tired of, playing like a bunch of poo piles.
I hate to bring it up as another piece of ancient history from that time period, but I was never too keen on how our Captain ascended to that position. One second he didn't want it and the next it was his greatest dream since he was a child. I can't help but feel that Nash may not entirely be comfortable with the position, not unlike his good friend Joe Thornton in Boston. Some guys are just better when they can do their job on the ice and not have to be a leader in the locker room. Is that true of Nash? Well, its something that a real newspaper might ask some questions about.

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12-07-2009, 12:15 AM
  #471
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
I can't help but feel that Nash may not entirely be comfortable with the position, not unlike his good friend Joe Thornton in Boston. Some guys are just better when they can do their job on the ice and not have to be a leader in the locker room.
I can't remember player names, but I recall various situations where captain status was removed and the overall play improved. In a perfect world I'd give C to a shutdown d-man, like Foote was. They play a "simple game" that is much easier to handle with the added pressure and responsibility of a Captain.

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12-07-2009, 12:28 AM
  #472
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I can't remember player names, but I recall various situations where captain status was removed and the overall play improved. In a perfect world I'd give C to a shutdown d-man, like Foote was. They play a "simple game" that is much easier to handle with the added pressure and responsibility of a Captain.
Like who? Hejda? Klesla? I think the naming of Nash as captain was premature, but I don't see many other candidates on this squad.

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12-07-2009, 12:29 AM
  #473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Handyy View Post
I can't remember player names, but I recall various situations where captain status was removed and the overall play improved. In a perfect world I'd give C to a shutdown d-man, like Foote was. They play a "simple game" that is much easier to handle with the added pressure and responsibility of a Captain.
Lecavalier had it taken away from him early in his career, he turned out fine. Modano had it taken away when it was given to Morrow, he was fine with it. Marleau was stripped of the C and he's having a career year.
Nash just isn't a leader, period. There's a reason Ovechkin isn't the captain of the Capitals, he doesn't want to be, the best player on the team doesn't always have to be the captain.

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12-07-2009, 02:14 AM
  #474
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Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post
Like who? Hejda? Klesla? I think the naming of Nash as captain was premature, but I don't see many other candidates on this squad.
That's why I said "in a perfect world"

But yeah, it is sad that this team has got rid of everybody who could have been considered to carry Captain status.

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12-07-2009, 08:29 AM
  #475
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Like who? Hejda? Klesla? I think the naming of Nash as captain was premature, but I don't see many other candidates on this squad.
And therein is the REAL problem with this team.

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