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Old
12-09-2009, 11:59 AM
  #276
NYR Viper
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This board is hilarious. People want to trade away young players because they think they have "peaked" at the ripe old age of 23 or 24. News flash people, this team is very young and slumps like this are going to happen.

Are there things that they need? Of course! Trading away players like Dubinsky and Callahan that are part of the bright future of this team is a bad idea. It would be like trading MDZ when he is 22 if he isnt putting up points.

What if the Devils had traded Zajac? Players go through bad seasons or bad stretches, trading them away just because they dont look as good as before doesnt mean they are done developing.

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12-09-2009, 12:00 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Clearer. But still not correct. This team is much more talented/better than last years ever was.
Which is/was exactly my point. It's better than last years was at the start of the season and better than last years at the end of the season.

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12-09-2009, 12:02 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by amendandrevise View Post
They've both got qualities individually that I wish could be combined into one person. Excellent skating, offensively-minded, defensively sound, hard-hitting, hell of a slapshot, great lockerroom presence, and a knack for sticking up for teammates. Sigh. In an ideal world...

I definitely would rather have Gilly over Mara though, all things considered.
Gilroy isn't a good lockerroom presence? Hoby Baker/National Championship/wearing the 'C'.

Better skater, better defensively, smarter player, better shooter, better passer.

The ONLY thing Mara has on Gilroy is Mara is bigger.

However, at 6-0, 200 lbs, Gilroy isn't exactly small, either.


This isn't even a discussion.

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12-09-2009, 12:05 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
That's a different story. And I agree.
I'm writing a letter to Santa this very moment asking for Slats' dismissal. Old Saint Nick better come through!

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12-09-2009, 12:05 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Gilroy isn't a good lockerroom presence? Hoby Baker/National Championship/wearing the 'C'.

Better skater, better defensively, smarter player, better shooter, better passer.

The ONLY thing Mara has on Gilroy is Mara is bigger.

However, at 6-0, 200 lbs, Gilroy isn't exactly small, either.


This isn't even a discussion.
Hey, I was giving the benefit of the doubt to those that think that this years lineup is awful. I'd take Gilroy over Mara any day all day long. Mara is bigger and is a better physical player and clearly was a leader of the team last year. Gilroy is a talented rookie, but I don't think he's got anyone's ear like he did at BC. Not yet.

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12-09-2009, 12:05 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Clearer. But still not correct. This team is much more talented/better than last years ever was.
One of the major problems this season is that the players that remained from last year are pretty much all having worse seasons.

Not only did a large portion of these boards think that wouldnt be the case, but they all but promised Torts and his system would make them better. Its strange, really.

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12-09-2009, 12:09 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
This board is hilarious. People want to trade away young players because they think they have "peaked" at the ripe old age of 23 or 24. News flash people, this team is very young and slumps like this are going to happen.

Are there things that they need? Of course! Trading away players like Dubinsky and Callahan that are part of the bright future of this team is a bad idea. It would be like trading MDZ when he is 22 if he isnt putting up points.

What if the Devils had traded Zajac? Players go through bad seasons or bad stretches, trading them away just because they dont look as good as before doesnt mean they are done developing.
Zajac, 24:
17 G, 42 Pt
14 G, 34 Pt
20 G, 62 Pt
'09-'10: 9 G, 25 Pt

Callahan, 24:
8 G, 13 Pt
22 G, 40 Pt
'09-'10: 5 G, 9 Pt


There's no comparison.


And it would be NOTHING like trading Del Zotto, who is a 19 year old DEFENSEMAN, that is currently on pace for 48 points.

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12-09-2009, 12:09 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
This board is hilarious. People want to trade away young players because they think they have "peaked" at the ripe old age of 23 or 24. News flash people, this team is very young and slumps like this are going to happen.

Are there things that they need? Of course! Trading away players like Dubinsky and Callahan that are part of the bright future of this team is a bad idea. It would be like trading MDZ when he is 22 if he isnt putting up points.

What if the Devils had traded Zajac? Players go through bad seasons or bad stretches, trading them away just because they dont look as good as before doesnt mean they are done developing.
Some people actually have eyes and, after watching hockey for years and years and years, can make such educated guesses in regards to a player's development.

Ryan Callahan can be on my 3rd line any day. I love his tenacity and grit.

But when you look at his hands, his vision, his overall finishing ability....I think its foolish to assume he'll ever be a consistent 20-25 goal scorer in this league. Those are inheritant talents, and its very difficult for me to believe that Callahan is going to magically develop great hands.

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12-09-2009, 12:12 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Hey, I was giving the benefit of the doubt to those that think that this years lineup is awful. I'd take Gilroy over Mara any day all day long. Mara is bigger and is a better physical player and clearly was a leader of the team last year. Gilroy is a talented rookie, but I don't think he's got anyone's ear like he did at BC. Not yet.
Probably true, but he's still pretty much better then Mara in every aspect of the game.

I wouldn't even say Mara is all that physical, either. He wasn't exactly ever a punishing crease-clearing player.

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12-09-2009, 12:13 PM
  #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
One of the major problems this season is that the players that remained from last year are pretty much all having worse seasons.

Not only did a large portion of these boards think that wouldnt be the case, but they all but promised Torts and his system would make them better. Its strange, really.
Not really. It shows Torts inability to "convert" players into his preachings. He needs a brand new team to succeed. I am not sure if Torts has lost this team, but definitely lost all Renney's leftovers. That, BTW, includes the goaltender.

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12-09-2009, 12:15 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Some people actually have eyes and, after watching hockey for years and years and years, can make such educated guesses in regards to a player's development.

Ryan Callahan can be on my 3rd line any day. I love his tenacity and grit.

But when you look at his hands, his vision, his overall finishing ability....I think its foolish to assume he'll ever be a consistent 20-25 goal scorer in this league. Those are inheritant talents, and its very difficult for me to believe that Callahan is going to magically develop great hands.
Yup.

And if he were getting third line minutes 5v5, and PK time, there would be no issue.

But there's only two forwards getting more ATOI, PP time, top 6 5v5 time... That's the issue.

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12-09-2009, 12:19 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post

Ryan Callahan can be on my 3rd line any day. I love his tenacity and grit.

But when you look at his hands, his vision, his overall finishing ability....I think its foolish to assume he'll ever be a consistent 20-25 goal scorer in this league. Those are inheritant talents, and its very difficult for me to believe that Callahan is going to magically develop great hands.
I agree on Cali, yet Dubinski is a different story, is he not?

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12-09-2009, 12:27 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
I agree on Cali, yet Dubinski is a different story, is he not?
Dubinsky is bigger, stronger, has better hands, better vision, and plays a tougher position.

If he had Callahan's tenacity and brought his A-game every single night, he'd be a legitimate top 6 forward right now.

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12-09-2009, 12:30 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Dubinsky is bigger, stronger, has better hands, better vision, and plays a tougher position.

If he had Callahan's tenacity and brought his A-game every single night, he'd be a legitimate top 6 forward right now.
I'd also add:

As fast, and as good defensively.

Dubinsky is a better player, no question about it.

But it's also true he doesn't bring his A-game consistently enough. That's why he goes through long slumps.

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12-09-2009, 12:33 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
How many shake ups does this team need? They fired the coach last season. They did a pretty substantial overhaul this past season.
Exactly. And it looks like they will be on their way to another overhaul this offseason as well.

If you have to make drastic changes to your roster year after year, and the results are the same, that's a major problem. Obviously Sather's not getting it right otherwise this team wouldn't need an overhaul every season.

If Sather keeps on shaking up the team, we will continue to be mired in mediocrity. There's no chance for the players to form continuity or chemistry, but, then again, you don't want to keep some of these players because they aren't good enough.

Clearly, the contracts of the Big 3 really hold us back. Sadly enough, Drury, Redden, and Rozy are part of the "core" this team which Sather choose to build around. I'm really not sure how much this roster will improve until at least 2 of them are gone. And trading away Redden or Rozy seems unlikely this offseason considering that there are some decent UFA defensemen that can be had for much cheaper than $5 million.

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12-09-2009, 12:43 PM
  #291
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The issue isn't constant shake-ups.

It's constant poor excuses for shake-ups.

Sather adds more bad contracts to the bad contracts we already have.

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12-09-2009, 02:15 PM
  #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Yup.

And if he were getting third line minutes 5v5, and PK time, there would be no issue.

But there's only two forwards getting more ATOI, PP time, top 6 5v5 time... That's the issue.
No, it isn't...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
The issue isn't constant shake-ups.

It's constant poor excuses for shake-ups.

Sather adds more bad contracts to the bad contracts we already have.
I don't even have to say it. You said it yourself. THIS is the problem. THIS is WHY Callahan is playing big minutes. Callahan is not the problem. The problem is that Callahan is forced to assume a role that he isn't fit for. That's what happens when you are paying approximately $21.5 million dollars of your cap space to a third line center, two third-pairing defensemen, and a "PP specialist."

Why trade Callahan? Callahan is one of the league's best for the role that he is best suited for. Holding on to him and trying to allow him to slide into his natural role is what the objective should be.

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12-09-2009, 02:18 PM
  #293
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Shake-up has already happened. Boyle is playing 3rd line left wing..

Watch out you silly Hawks!!

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12-09-2009, 02:21 PM
  #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Zajac, 24:
17 G, 42 Pt
14 G, 34 Pt
20 G, 62 Pt
'09-'10: 9 G, 25 Pt

Callahan, 24:
8 G, 13 Pt
22 G, 40 Pt
'09-'10: 5 G, 9 Pt


There's no comparison.


And it would be NOTHING like trading Del Zotto, who is a 19 year old DEFENSEMAN, that is currently on pace for 48 points.
Just a couple things:

1) I wasnt comparing Callahan to Zajac, I was comparing the fact that the Devils could have traded Zajac when he had a down year and yet they didnt and are reaping the rewards.

2) I know how old MDZ is, I was stating that it would be like trading a 22y/o MDZ(in 3 years) if he is struggling a little bit because it may look like he has hit his ceiling.

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12-09-2009, 03:26 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by Shadowtron View Post
I'm writing a letter to Santa this very moment asking for Slats' dismissal. Old Saint Nick better come through!
Sorry Shadow. I'm pretty sure you're not a kid so I feel I can break this to you. Santa aka Old Saint Nick is a figment of some people's imaginations. He really doesn't exist so Slats survives--again. But the idea is good.

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12-09-2009, 03:29 PM
  #296
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I really don't get the attachment some people had for Paul Mara. A 30 year old bottom pairing d-man. Not really that physical and a a crapola fighter. The positives: he meant well and he yelled a lot and he had a big bushy red beard.

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12-09-2009, 05:15 PM
  #297
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If Callahan was available (which I don't believe he is), there would be a line at Slat's door.

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12-09-2009, 05:23 PM
  #298
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If Callahan was available (which I don't believe he is), there would be a line at Slat's door.
Without a doubt. He's an excellent defensive player, he's a leader, he's mature, he sets an example, and he has the ability to be a decent contributor offensively if he plays with anyone that can even remotely create offense for others, which no one that he is playing with now can.

There are certain pieces of the puzzle that we have in place. We have the goaltender, we have one star forward, and we have some excellent role players. We shouldn't be messing with that. We should be looking to rid the team of the undesirables and fill the still glaring numerous holes.

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Old
12-09-2009, 05:45 PM
  #299
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We had our chance to be a contender this year and blew it. We could of had Heatley, but we didn't want to give up superstar third liner Brandon Dubinsky. Perhaps we can learn from our mistakes. The logic here defines sanity. Buy low, sell high are words of wisdom. Right now guys like Dubisnky, Callahan, Staal, etc all are at their peak in terms of value we'd get in a trade. Yet too many people wanna sit around and wait to see what their hugely overrated "potential" is, and by the time we find out they are no longer worth as much.

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12-09-2009, 06:06 PM
  #300
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We had our chance to be a contender this year and blew it. We could of had Heatley, but we didn't want to give up superstar third liner Brandon Dubinsky. Perhaps we can learn from our mistakes. The logic here defines sanity. Buy low, sell high are words of wisdom. Right now guys like Dubisnky, Callahan, Staal, etc all are at their peak in terms of value we'd get in a trade. Yet too many people wanna sit around and wait to see what their hugely overrated "potential" is, and by the time we find out they are no longer worth as much.
Or we didn't want to add another HUGE contract. Possibly.

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