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Dan Carcillo: suspended for four games by the NHL

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Old
12-07-2009, 04:47 PM
  #276
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I disagree. I am not saying Carcillo is a better hockey player than Pyorala, he is a different kind. Again, not a knock on Pyorala. Powe can also play all three positions and the penalty kill etc. So can Laperriere. Asham and Laperriere are not goons or agitators. They can fight, no doubt, but that is not their role. That is Carcillo's role. I'd rather see Carcillo in the box after a fight and giving the team that boost of energy than Asham or Laperriere. He is there to provide energy and get under the other team's skin. Hartnell does this too, but again, that is not his role. Pyorala is a good hockey player and also an asset to this team, but all things being equal with the team as deep as it will be when everyone is back Carcillo is the right type of player to fill that final roster spot. We have 10 other guys on the team like Pyorala, no one else like Cracillo (reply with all the jokes you want about how that is a good thing).
Lappy and Carcillo are the EXACT same player. Like pretty much mear images. The thing with Lappy though is that he can control himself, and knows how to use his energy to help the team and not hurt it. Also with the amount of injuries this team has do you want Carcillo playing on the top lines...wait...dont answer that haha. Skill wise, Pyorala > Carcillo. Few can argue that and the ones that do are just blind Carcillo fans.


Ian Laperriere has 8 fights this season while Carcillo has 6 (not counting the Bradley thing) So technically, Laperriere is our fighter here.

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12-07-2009, 04:50 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Lappy and Carcillo are the EXACT same player. Like pretty much mear images. The thing with Lappy though is that he can control himself, and knows how to use his energy to help the team and not hurt it. Also with the amount of injuries this team has do you want Caricllo playing on the top lines...wait...dont answer that haha. Skill wise, Pyorala > Carcillo. Few can argue that and the ones that do are just blind Carcillo fans.


Ian Laperriere has 8 fights this season while Carcillo has 6 (not counting the Bradley thing) So technically, Laperriere is our fighter here.
Please, Lappy blows Carcillo out of the water and then bangs Carcillo's mom, twice.

Lappy is a responsible, defensive forward who can play the bottom line and play effectively on the PK.

Carcillo is not. He is just a 4th line agitator. Sean Avery without the murse. Maybe I'll also give you that Carcillo has longer hair and isnt as ***.

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12-07-2009, 04:52 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Cobiemonster5 View Post
My guess is that he'll be on the team like he was before the season started and before the injuries. You don't change up your most consistent and dominant line just because carcillo got shafted. And yes the betts-lappy-carcillo line was our best line early on. This thread should end, it's getting out of hand over an overreaction. Carcillo is the least of this teams problems but we are all so quick to find ourselves a scapegoat not named Richards Carter or emery. And ej since I'm not going to quote if Todd bertuzzi is still in this league carcillos days aren't numbered. That and carcillo won't knock everyone he fights out so I doubt he does get a stiffer penalty.
People are confusing "effective checking line" with "best line" a bit too much lately when discussing the contributions Carcillo and company have made. That group, combined, has scored 4 goals in 65 games played. They were doing some good things, but if they've been our best line, then someone is going to have to explain to me how we managed to win a single game.

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Steve Downie does not have the skill Carcillo does. Steve Downie supports keep claiming about his "great hockey sense." Ya okay.
Steve Downie is a vastly more talented hockey player than Carcillo and has proved it at every single level of hockey they have competed at.

Carcillo career high in points in the OHL? 66. Steve Downie? 92 in 45 games.

Carcillo career high in points in the AHL? 30 in 52 games. Steve Downie? 25 in 23 games.

Carcillo career high in points in the NHL? 24 in 57 (major fluke year). Steve Downie? Has 12 in 28 games thus far this year.

Steve Downie has his demons, but he absolutely pwns Carcillo when it comes to skill-level. This isn't to say Carcillo can't play the game of hockey at this level, he certainly can (he isn't a Cote), but Downie is an objectively more talented player with the puck on his stick than Carcillo and it isn't even close.

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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
If you are going to talk about players hurting the Flyers chances with penalties, I think Hartnell has led the league in minors (or has been close to it) the last few years. Carcillo gets the majority of his penalties from fighting, I believe (could be wrong, but I am already wasting studying time writing this and don't feel like researching the exact facts so if I am wrong someone correct me).
When Carcillo has four consecutive (and when you pro-rate 'em for injuries, it would be 6 including the pace he's on this season) 20+ goal seasons, including a 30 goal campaign, on his resume you can compare him to Hartnell. Until then, they shouldn't even be discussed in the same breath.

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12-07-2009, 04:54 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Please, Lappy blows Carcillo out of the water and then bangs Carcillo's mom, twice.

Lappy is a responsible, defensive forward who can play the bottom line and play effectively on the PK.

Carcillo is not. He is just a 4th line agitator. Sean Avery without the murse. Maybe I'll also give you that Carcillo has longer hair and isnt as ***.
Playing wise though, its pretty noticable. They both get in on the forecheck and fight. The thing is though, Carcillo can not contain is emotions, and hurts us. If Carcillo does this kind of thing again, Lavy wont take his **** and will get him off the team. Stevens would have rewarded him with a chance to play on the first line.

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12-07-2009, 04:54 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
However its undeniable that at least 3 games turned south because of an incident he was involved in.
If you keep criteria this vague then I'm pretty sure you could hold Carcillo responsible for the Nicole Simpson murder.

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12-07-2009, 04:55 PM
  #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Please, Lappy blows Carcillo out of the water and then bangs Carcillo's mom, twice.

Lappy is a responsible, defensive forward who can play the bottom line and play effectively on the PK.

Carcillo is not. He is just a 4th line agitator. Sean Avery without the murse. Maybe I'll also give you that Carcillo has longer hair and isnt as ***.

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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Lappy and Carcillo are the EXACT same player. Like pretty much mear images. The thing with Lappy though is that he can control himself, and knows how to use his energy to help the team and not hurt it. Also with the amount of injuries this team has do you want Carcillo playing on the top lines...wait...dont answer that haha. Skill wise, Pyorala > Carcillo. Few can argue that and the ones that do are just blind Carcillo fans.


Ian Laperriere has 8 fights this season while Carcillo has 6 (not counting the Bradley thing) So technically, Laperriere is our fighter here.

Irish: that is basically what I was saying.

sa cryed: I said that Pyorala was a better hockey player than Carcillo, but they are different kinds of players, and Lappy is not the same as Carcillo and he is not the team's fighter. If Laviolette (or Stevens in the past) wanted someone to drop the gloves to get a little energy, he is not going to send Lappy out there, he is going to send Carcillo. Lappy may drop 'em when he feels like it, but that is not his role. I love Lappy and I'm not knocking his fighting or grit, because he is obviously capable, but that is not why he is here. That is why Carcillo (and to a lesser extent, Cote) is here.

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12-07-2009, 04:58 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Ive been waiting for this one. Pyorala can play all 3 postitions and Carcillo cant. Pyorala can play the penalty kill and Carcillo cant. Pyorala can get moved up to the top lines and not look out of place while Carcillo does. Carcillo isnt needed when Lappy/Asham bring the exact same thing. Versatile players are much more important to a successful team
As you know, this has been the argument since the summer...and it is something that Homer should answer for at some point: what is the purpose of having Carcillo, Asham, and Lappy on this team at the same time? Of those, Asham and Lappy are the significantly more reliable players, and do more for you.

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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Hartnell is another **** who gets away with way to much. Granted, I like him more, he can at least score 60 in a season.

Hartnell is so flighty, you never know if he will score or be an ***hat. He needs to pull his **** together PRONTO.

I'd rather dump Carcillo then Hartnell. Carcillo is a much less talented version of Hartnell, and we really dont need more then one of Hartnell or Carcillo to be honest.
I have a feeling we're going to see Hartnell round into form with a quickness under Laviolette. Hartnell, in my opinion, is the poster boy of what was wrong with John Stevens as a coach...and that's coming from someone that loves what Hartnell brings to this team. 50% of Hartnell's penalties are absolutely idiotic...yet Stevens almost never called him out on this. I say "almost," because there was that benching against the Islanders that was never explained. Instead he's ripping apart Upshall...Hartnell and Briere are the two biggest culprits of stupid penalties on this team, and have been ever since they got here: stick infractions, unnecessary interference, roughing, etc.

Laviolette strikes me as a coach that isn't going to accept that crap and the message will be delivered with severity if it doesn't stop. It isn't hard...if you do stupid things, you don't see the ice.

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12-07-2009, 04:58 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
People are confusing "effective checking line" with "best line" a bit too much lately when discussing the contributions Carcillo and company have made. That group, combined, has scored 4 goals in 65 games played. They were doing some good things, but if they've been our best line, then someone is going to have to explain to me how we managed to win a single game.
I agree here.

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12-07-2009, 04:59 PM
  #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Irish: that is basically what I was saying.

sa cryed: I said that Pyorala was a better hockey player than Carcillo, but they are different kinds of players, and Lappy is not the same as Carcillo and he is not the team's fighter. If Laviolette (or Stevens in the past) wanted someone to drop the gloves to get a little energy, he is not going to send Lappy out there, he is going to send Carcillo. Lappy may drop 'em when he feels like it, but that is not his role. I love Lappy and I'm not knocking his fighting or grit, because he is obviously capable, but that is not why he is here. That is why Carcillo (and to a lesser extent, Cote) is here.
Please I would like you to explain how they are different. Lappy has more fights this year. Why is Lappy here then? Only the pk? Leadership? He is here to get in on that forecheck, start **** around, and start fights when needed. Maybe I am watching a different player, but that is EXACTLY what Lappy is doing this year and what he has always done.

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12-07-2009, 05:00 PM
  #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Irish: that is basically what I was saying.

sa cryed: I said that Pyorala was a better hockey player than Carcillo, but they are different kinds of players, and Lappy is not the same as Carcillo and he is not the team's fighter. If Laviolette (or Stevens in the past) wanted someone to drop the gloves to get a little energy, he is not going to send Lappy out there, he is going to send Carcillo. Lappy may drop 'em when he feels like it, but that is not his role. I love Lappy and I'm not knocking his fighting or grit, because he is obviously capable, but that is not why he is here. That is why Carcillo (and to a lesser extent, Cote) is here.
Laperierre is one of the most frequent fighters in the league over the last decade...if he isn't "here to fight" then Holmgren should have signed someone else, because fighting is a huge part of his game. Now, the fact that he can do some other stuff means that he isn't known solely for that (as is the case with Carcillo), but to suggest that Laperierre isn't a guy that's here to provide some fighting is simply ignoring the player he's been in this league for a long, long time.

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12-07-2009, 05:03 PM
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
People are confusing "effective checking line" with "best line" a bit too much lately when discussing the contributions Carcillo and company have made. That group, combined, has scored 4 goals in 65 games played. They were doing some good things, but if they've been our best line, then someone is going to have to explain to me how we managed to win a single game.



Steve Downie is a vastly more talented hockey player than Carcillo and has proved it at every single level of hockey they have competed at.

Carcillo career high in points in the OHL? 66. Steve Downie? 92 in 45 games.

Carcillo career high in points in the AHL? 30 in 52 games. Steve Downie? 25 in 23 games.

Carcillo career high in points in the NHL? 24 in 57 (major fluke year). Steve Downie? Has 12 in 28 games thus far this year.

Steve Downie has his demons, but he absolutely pwns Carcillo when it comes to skill-level. This isn't to say Carcillo can't play the game of hockey at this level, he certainly can (he isn't a Cote), but Downie is an objectively more talented player with the puck on his stick than Carcillo and it isn't even close.



When Carcillo has four consecutive (and when you pro-rate 'em for injuries, it would be 6 including the pace he's on this season) 20+ goal seasons, including a 30 goal campaign, on his resume you can compare him to Hartnell. Until then, they shouldn't even be discussed in the same breath.
Id take Downie over Carcillo, Downie played a better all round game. He has more mental issues tho.

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12-07-2009, 05:07 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by TheDrizzle81 View Post
Id take Downie over Carcillo, Downie played a better all round game. He has more mental issues tho.
One thing I might agree with you

Mental Issues: Downie has more than Carcillo
Skill wise: Downie has more than Carcillo

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12-07-2009, 05:43 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Mental Issues: Downie has more than Carcillo
Skill wise: Downie has more than Carcillo
During a particularly bad episode, Carcillo might swing a little early in a fight.

During a particularly bad episode, Downie might unsheath a concealed icepick and stab a ref in the eye.

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12-07-2009, 05:46 PM
  #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarfo View Post
During a particularly bad episode, Carcillo might swing a little early in a fight.

During a particularly bad episode, Downie might unsheath a concealed icepick and stab a ref in the eye.
Carcillo's issue is he doesnt shut up and officials dont like that. I could see downie beating a ref to a pulp.

I miss Downie tho.

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12-07-2009, 05:46 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Lappy and Carcillo are the EXACT same player. Like pretty much mear images. The thing with Lappy though is that he can control himself, and knows how to use his energy to help the team and not hurt it. Also with the amount of injuries this team has do you want Carcillo playing on the top lines...wait...dont answer that haha. Skill wise, Pyorala > Carcillo. Few can argue that and the ones that do are just blind Carcillo fans.


Ian Laperriere has 8 fights this season while Carcillo has 6 (not counting the Bradley thing) So technically, Laperriere is our fighter here
.


It's nice if our guys win some of those fights though. Tends to be more effective that way.

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12-07-2009, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Please, Lappy blows Carcillo out of the water and then bangs Carcillo's mom, twice.

Lappy is a responsible, defensive forward who can play the bottom line and play effectively on the PK.

Carcillo is not. He is just a 4th line agitator. Sean Avery without the murse. Maybe I'll also give you that Carcillo has longer hair and isnt as ***.


Yet many NHL GM's feel he is. You are wrong.

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12-07-2009, 05:51 PM
  #292
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Yet many NHL GM's feel he is. You are wrong.
Many?

So far he's worn out his welcome in two organizations...and if he keeps pulling this crap, a third.

Carcillo can and will play in the NHL for some time, but I'm not sure there's a wealth of GMs out there viewing him as more than a 4th line agitator either. He hasn't exactly proven himself capable of holding a role above there.

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12-07-2009, 05:52 PM
  #293
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Ed Snider is on DNL right now, he just said "if Carcillo can't get smarter, he's going to find himself out of the league" FWIW. I didn't hear all he said on the subject, but it was an acknowledgement of what some of us have been saying about how the game has changed with officiating.

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Yet many NHL GM's feel he is. You are wrong.
Carcillo is a defensive forward and many GMs think that way? Surely you have some evidence to back that up.

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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Many?

So far he's worn out his welcome in two organizations...and if he keeps pulling this crap, a third.

Carcillo can and will play in the NHL for some time, but I'm not sure there's a wealth of GMs out there viewing him as more than a 4th line agitator either. He hasn't exactly proven himself capable of holding a role above there.
It should be noted that on the first one (the one that won the Stanley Cup), he was demoted to the ECHL and also suspended in-house as a disciplinary measure by Todd Richards (who is now an NHL coach, the GM also from Pittsburgh -- could be one team who might not want him)


Last edited by GKJ: 12-07-2009 at 05:59 PM.
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12-07-2009, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Many?

So far he's worn out his welcome in two organizations...and if he keeps pulling this crap, a third.

Carcillo can and will play in the NHL for some time, but I'm not sure there's a wealth of GMs out there viewing him as more than a 4th line agitator either. He hasn't exactly proven himself capable of holding a role above there.



OK, many could be an overstatement. Much like saying he's worn out his welcome in 2 organizations is. Last time I checked the Pens were looking for protection for Crosby and Malkin....Laraque fit the bill. Obviously the Yotes got a pretty good deal for him. Your post is as speculative as mine is.

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12-07-2009, 05:57 PM
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If you keep criteria this vague then I'm pretty sure you could hold Carcillo responsible for the Nicole Simpson murder.
According to the American justice system, they've never proven who did it.

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12-07-2009, 06:00 PM
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Laperierre is one of the most frequent fighters in the league over the last decade...if he isn't "here to fight" then Holmgren should have signed someone else, because fighting is a huge part of his game. Now, the fact that he can do some other stuff means that he isn't known solely for that (as is the case with Carcillo), but to suggest that Laperierre isn't a guy that's here to provide some fighting is simply ignoring the player he's been in this league for a long, long time.


He gets beaten with regularity. I have a problem with that. I don't have a problem with Lappy playing, killing penalties and outplaying our goalies with his teeth though. If you can't beat Scotty Hartnell, you're not exactly going to deflect attention away from our stars.

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12-07-2009, 06:04 PM
  #297
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Laperierre is one of the most frequent fighters in the league over the last decade...if he isn't "here to fight" then Holmgren should have signed someone else, because fighting is a huge part of his game. Now, the fact that he can do some other stuff means that he isn't known solely for that (as is the case with Carcillo), but to suggest that Laperierre isn't a guy that's here to provide some fighting is simply ignoring the player he's been in this league for a long, long time.
I didn't say he doesn't or shouldn't fight. I'm saying that is not his role, and it isn't. Yes he fights, and yes he should. But Carcillo is the fighter on this team. Lappy has more and does more for this team that is more valuable than his fighting.

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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Please I would like you to explain how they are different. Lappy has more fights this year. Why is Lappy here then? Only the pk? Leadership? He is here to get in on that forecheck, start **** around, and start fights when needed. Maybe I am watching a different player, but that is EXACTLY what Lappy is doing this year and what he has always done.
Yes, that is why he is here. He is here to be a defensive forward, block some shots, and provide a physical presence on the ice. Yes he fights, and that is definitely a plus and part of his game, but you don't sign a 35-year old guy to a three year $3.5 million contract just to fight. You sign Carcillo to a sub $1 million dollar contract to do that (which hopefully happens after this season).

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12-07-2009, 06:08 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Ed Snider is on DNL right now, he just said "if Carcillo can't get smarter, he's going to find himself out of the league" FWIW.
A well-measured statement from Ed.

It's important to keep an arms-length away from the lightning rod without getting into your personal feelings on the issue.

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12-07-2009, 06:09 PM
  #299
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Carcillo is like the ultimate troll.

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According to the American justice system, they've never proven who did it.
Torts system handled it okay.

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12-07-2009, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club View Post
He gets beaten with regularity. I have a problem with that. I don't have a problem with Lappy playing, killing penalties and outplaying our goalies with his teeth though. If you can't beat Scotty Hartnell, you're not exactly going to deflect attention away from our stars.
I lol'd

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