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Old
12-15-2009, 05:35 PM
  #1
viasyncro
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Giveaways

Out of the top 12 defenseman with the most giveaways, the Habs have 5.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...tssPlayerStats

Seems this could partly explain why we are talking so many penalties and why need to block so many shots, increasing our chances of injury.


In your opinion, why do the Habs have so many giveaways?


What can be done to reduce our giveaways?

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Old
12-15-2009, 05:43 PM
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InglewoodJack
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THe system calls for play which is risky, especially leaving the defensive zone, which causes turnovers.

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12-15-2009, 05:44 PM
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OneSharpMarble
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Gomez being so high isn't a suprise, all he does is skate in and lose the puck. Might aswell have a faster less talented Kovalev that doesn't score.

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12-15-2009, 05:45 PM
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Habs 1909
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Off topic but I was looking at youtube videos and guess who gave the puck away to Stefan who had a gimme into the open net...MAB.

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12-15-2009, 05:51 PM
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Reiher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyG 91 View Post
Off topic but I was looking at youtube videos and guess who gave the puck away to Stefan who had a gimme into the open net...MAB.
Yes, but Stefan is a bigger failure for doing what he did! so of the two, I'd rather have MAB.

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Old
12-15-2009, 05:54 PM
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Reiher
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Gomez being so high isn't a suprise, all he does is skate in and lose the puck. Might aswell have a faster less talented Kovalev that doesn't score.
Well when you look at the take away stats, Gomez pretty much has one give away per take away. I suppose you could say it evens out, except it would be great if he had someone to pass off to that could finish...damn injuries suck.

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Old
12-15-2009, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Reiher View Post
Yes, but Stefan is a bigger failure for doing what he did! so of the two, I'd rather have MAB.
That was just extremely bad luck. Puck for some weird reason jumped over his stick and then tried too hard to stop and fall. He wasn't even trying to be an ass, just slide it in the net. Had Edmonton not scored, it wouldn't be that bad and he'd probably still be playing.

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12-15-2009, 05:59 PM
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They've got so many, Spacek/Hamrlik (who are #1 and #2 in the league) in particular, because they are facing higher quality of opposition than they are used to.

Hamrlik was a second pairing defender last season, we know that. I will assume that Spacek filled the same role for Buffalo. Now, with Markov out, they're playing important minutes and plenty of them, a role they may not be ideally suited for.

As for Bergeron, this is no real surprise. He plays a high risk game. Gill, a little bit more surprising, but I suppose it could be that his relative lack of speed is being exploited - although I'd say he's been much improved overall as of late.

I don't know how you can characterize the system as being risky though.

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12-15-2009, 06:01 PM
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Reiher
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
That was just extremely bad luck. Puck for some weird reason jumped over his stick and then tried too hard to stop and fall. He wasn't even trying to be an ass, just slide it in the net. Had Edmonton not scored, it wouldn't be that bad and he'd probably still be playing.
I'm not denying that, and man that was bad luck. I remember in minor hockey in a hockey tournament the game was 3-2 and the other team pulled their goalie and I had a clear shot from centre ice but the puck boundced funny and hit the crossbar. Though unlike in that game, the other team didn't score and we still won the game. But I mean how can you not laugh and call that a failure play? I mean both from MAB and Stefan. But I still think that the bigger fail is Stefan. Makes me laugh every time I see that video.

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12-15-2009, 06:14 PM
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Watsatheo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viasyncro View Post
Out of the top 12 defenseman with the most giveaways, the Habs have 5.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...tssPlayerStats

Seems this could partly explain why we are talking so many penalties and why need to block so many shots, increasing our chances of injury.


In your opinion, why do the Habs have so many giveaways?


What can be done to reduce our giveaways?
Play more road games. Huge % of the giveaways come from home games.

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Old
12-15-2009, 06:20 PM
  #11
viasyncro
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Play more road games. Huge % of the giveaways come from home games.
So true, it also goes to show how giveaways increase the number of shots that need to be blocked...

MTL is first in Home giveaways by over 100!
http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm...=realTimeStats

MTL is first in Home blocked shots by nearly 100.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm...=realTimeStats

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12-15-2009, 07:01 PM
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Watsatheo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viasyncro View Post
So true, it also goes to show how giveaways increase the number of shots that need to be blocked...

MTL is first in Home giveaways by over 100!
http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm...=realTimeStats

MTL is first in Home blocked shots by nearly 100.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm...=realTimeStats
I think it's more of a score keeper thing. The Bell Centre people seem to count blocked shots and giveaways a lot more than other arenas.

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Old
12-15-2009, 07:10 PM
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Harry Wong
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Our forwards are too soft and small and put little pressure on the other team in the opponents end. Other teams seem to break out of their end with relative ease and shoot the puck in our end.
Its the same small soft forwards who try to help our D out of our own end and often get outmuscled there too.

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Old
12-15-2009, 07:34 PM
  #14
zx81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
I think it's more of a score keeper thing. The Bell Centre people seem to count blocked shots and giveaways a lot more than other arenas.
Totally that.

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Old
12-15-2009, 08:19 PM
  #15
MathMan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
I think it's more of a score keeper thing. The Bell Centre people seem to count blocked shots and giveaways a lot more than other arenas.
Exactly, and the Centre Bell's numbers are exceedingly high. The Habs were credited with 6 giveaways in Atlanta and 14 in Montreal against Buffalo. 7 in Ottawa, but no less than 27 in the Boston Centennial game (a game they won 5-1!)

These stats are so notoriously inaccurate that analysts have taken to using exclusively road numbers to try to tease out the home rink's specific biases.

Here the team numbers from last year, adjusted based on cross-referencing home and road numbers:

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/2008...mgiveaways.php

The Habs were one of the top teams in pure stats, but got adjusted from 965 to 597. Gives an idea of how wildly inconsistent the stat can be between rinks.

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Old
12-15-2009, 08:42 PM
  #16
Watsatheo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Exactly, and the Centre Bell's numbers are exceedingly high. The Habs were credited with 6 giveaways in Atlanta and 14 in Montreal against Buffalo. 7 in Ottawa, but no less than 27 in the Boston Centennial game (a game they won 5-1!)

These stats are so notoriously inaccurate that analysts have taken to using exclusively road numbers to try to tease out the home rink's specific biases.

Here the team numbers from last year, adjusted based on cross-referencing home and road numbers:

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/2008...mgiveaways.php

The Habs were one of the top teams in pure stats, but got adjusted from 965 to 597. Gives an idea of how wildly inconsistent the stat can be between rinks.
It's not as if we're the only team getting credited with tons of giveaways during our home games either. It's actually very common for games at the Bell to have both teams in the 20+ giveaway range. That's the kind of numbers you usually see at AHL games. But during road games, where we play worse, the giveaway total is like half.

My guess is that the Bell Centre people count failed clearing attempts during our PKs (lord knows we have a tons of those) as giveaways. We have the highest PK/home game average so it's possible this can skew the stats.

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