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Old
12-07-2009, 06:24 PM
  #26
Sinurgy
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Originally Posted by PhoPhan View Post
I've never bought the Cardinals argument, as the Coyotes play five times as many home games. It's a much larger commitment.
Specifically when talking about season tickets. I don't bring up the Cardinals argument because I agree it's pretty easy to refute. That said it does hold water when talking about the casual fan. They would not buy season tickets anyway and if they only go to a handful of games over 6 months then it's definitely not any more inconvenient than a Cardinals game.

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Old
12-07-2009, 06:28 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Ovens View Post
So knowing nothing of the local geography how long is the average travel time to Glendale from Phoenix and surrounding towns?, it takes us between 60 and 90 minutes to travel the 35 miles into NYC to the garden, obviously traffic being the issue, the main factor being getting under the Hudson.

Not sure on how that stacks up against you guys?, but there's no point in moaning, we could watch the Devils in Newark but the Rangers are our team.
I did some research on distances awhile back for another post. Here is what I came up with. I tried to see what the distances were from the farthest points of Phoenix where most of the fans would be coming from. This is just distance, not drive time. During rush hour, parts of the valley get lots of traffic and that will impact drive times for weeknight games.

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I did a little research on how far Jobing.com is from different points in the Phoenix area:

US Airways Arena (downtown, former home of the Coyotes) 19 miles
Sky Harbor Airport 23 miles
Fountain Hills (about as far East as you get) 45 miles
Queen Creek (about as far Southwest as you get) 56 miles
Anthem (about as far North as you get) 33 miles

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Old
12-07-2009, 06:30 PM
  #28
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When I was going to lots of games between the 05-06 and 07-08 seasons, I tried to get out to the west side as soon as possible; in other words, leave no later than 3 PM. Once 4 PM hits, then traffic snarls downtown and it took me a good hour to get out to the arena if I was unlucky enough to get caught in it. I didn't mind it though, granted it was partly because I left with LOADS of time to spare and often got to the arena before the doors were even open.

In the past, maybe it would have been valid, but in this day and age where we need butts in the seats more than anything, it's time to suck it up and get out there. As for me, I sort of yearn for the days where it took me an hour to get out there, because nowadays, if I were to drive from my house to Glendale Arena, I'd have to leave at 8 AM for a 7 PM game start, drive 630 miles and spend 3+ tanks of gas round trip. Not gonna happen more than once or twice a year, alas.

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Old
12-07-2009, 06:40 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
Specifically when talking about season tickets. I don't bring up the Cardinals argument because I agree it's pretty easy to refute. That said it does hold water when talking about the casual fan. They would not buy season tickets anyway and if they only go to a handful of games over 6 months then it's definitely not any more inconvenient than a Cardinals game.
That's a fair point, but ultimately these casual fans are not who are going to make the difference. It's the season ticket holders and specifically the luxury box holders. I'm guessing it's not much more cost prohibitive compared to the Cardinals (if at all), but actually showing up takes much more effort (assuming it's a hike at all).

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Old
12-07-2009, 06:48 PM
  #30
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It's not really a distance issue. It's the perception that it's in the middle of nowhere, and totally out of the way. 10, 20, 30 miles - doesn't matter. The major entertainment / nightlife / major destinations in the valley are downtown Phoenix, ASU, downtown Scottsdale & the airport. These 4 spots are about 10 miles from each other. Anything outside of this will get a bad rep for being "too far".

Westgate is just not a "destination". Arguing about miles travelled is beside the point.

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Old
12-07-2009, 09:47 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by zz View Post
Westgate is just not a "destination". Arguing about miles travelled is beside the point.
Ummm Westgate is a destination. Check out some of the stores there sometime.

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Old
12-07-2009, 10:00 PM
  #32
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Attendance figures of OTHER teams?

We all know the attendance figures arent as good as we would like them here (and the crap announcers from other teams have to point this out MULTIPLE times a game), but do we know numbers for other teams?

I keep hearing that many other teams are not selling out their games either, can anyone confirm this? Unfortunately, the poor attendance is getting blamed from the bankruptcy (and rightfully so to a certain degree). But it could not hit at a worst time in this recession... I think we are underestimating the toll of this recession and what it is doing to people's wallets. Maybe other attendance figures from teams can show this.

P.S. If anyone here is in LA and going to the game on Thur, I would love to know I wont be the only Yote in the house

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Old
12-07-2009, 10:06 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Dolemite View Post
Ummm Westgate is a destination. Check out some of the stores there sometime.
I have. They're the same as any of the 100s of malls in the valley. And the selection is just not great. Why would I drive all the way to Glendale to go to a Puma or Fossil store when I have Desert Ridge, Kierland, Biltmore, Fashion Square, PV mall nearby, with 10x the selection?

I've looked at the stores & restaurants. It's just not nearly good enough to justify the drive. Just more chain restaurants with very average food, yet another AMC theater, yet another Cold Stone, and maybe what - 10 stores? It's convenient for people in the west valley, other than that, totally forgettable.


Last edited by zz: 12-07-2009 at 10:17 PM.
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Old
12-07-2009, 10:27 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by zz View Post
I have. They're the same as any of the 100s of malls in the valley.
Actually there's lots of stores there that are unique to Arizona at Westgate.

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Old
12-07-2009, 10:41 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolemite View Post
Actually there's lots of stores there that are unique to Arizona at Westgate.
Really? OK, I'll take your word for it. Although I'm browsing their site, and I'm only seeing about 10 stores total. I guess Puma & Quicksilver are unique to the state?

Meh.

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Old
12-07-2009, 10:50 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by zz View Post
Really? OK, I'll take your word for it. Although I'm browsing their site, and I'm only seeing about 10 stores total. I guess Puma & Quicksilver are unique to the state?

Meh.
Margaritaville for one is Unique to Arizona.

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Old
12-07-2009, 11:07 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolemite View Post
Margaritaville for one is Unique to Arizona.
Pretty sure they are in Vegas or Laughlin at least.
Or did you mean unique as in the only one in AZ?

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Old
12-07-2009, 11:25 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolemite View Post
Actually there's lots of stores there that are unique to Arizona at Westgate.
Yea can't find a sports authority any where else that caries an XS Brian Urlacher jersey like that one

sorry,

Outside the McFarline store, whats unique?

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Old
12-07-2009, 11:51 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by SniperHF View Post
Or did you mean unique as in the only one in AZ?
Only one in AZ.

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Old
12-08-2009, 09:50 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolemite View Post
Only one in AZ.
...and honestly, thank goodness for that. It reminds me of Bubba Gump - cheesy, gimmicky, zero character, basically a tourist trap. A store with MaragaritaVille T-shirts? Really? Like Hard Rock cafe, Planet Hollywood & RainForest cafe? That's just so 1996.

But to each his own I guess.

Back to my original point - I don't think Westgate is any worse than most new shopping malls around. I find it very similar to Desert Ridge marketplace up north, with better fountains . But none of those malls are destinations. No one will (or at least should) drive 25 miles to go there. Sometimes I'm too lazy to drive for 20+ minutes when going out on a date with my wife, so we'll hit one of the chain restaurants at Desert Ridge, like the Yard House. Since it's 5 minutes away, it's convenient. But I'd never, ever consider going there if it wasn't this close. And that's the big problem. You can't rely on people living in the suburbs within a 10 mile radius from the arena to fill 18,000 seats.

The Coyotes need to become the destination, the reason people get in their car and drive for a bit. Because the location sure won't do that for them.


Last edited by zz: 12-08-2009 at 10:57 AM.
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Old
12-08-2009, 11:31 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by zz View Post
...and honestly, thank goodness for that. It reminds me of Bubba Gump - cheesy, gimmicky, zero character, basically a tourist trap. A store with MaragaritaVille T-shirts? Really? Like Hard Rock cafe, Planet Hollywood & RainForest cafe? That's just so 1996.


Well said.

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Old
12-08-2009, 12:11 PM
  #42
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Isn't Westgate like 1/4 built? I thought they stopped building because financing dried up? If that's all they had planned then it wasn't very well thought out.

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Old
12-08-2009, 12:59 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by yakko View Post
Wow, where'd you live?
Good 'ol first city in the US that went "bankrupt" - VALLEJO.....
I must've brought karma...

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Old
12-08-2009, 01:11 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by mon2mon2 View Post
Good 'ol first city in the US that went "bankrupt" - VALLEJO.....
I must've brought karma...
Yeah, that is a rough drive down to San Jose.

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Old
12-08-2009, 01:24 PM
  #45
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Im going to jump in here for a second and hope to not upset anyone.

San Jose has a good number of people commute to games from the central coast which is basically an hour or more each way. Theres not really a traffic issue going north its just that far away. Im one of those people.

Hell two seasons ago we drove from Yuma, AZ to see the yotes play the Sharks. Loved the yardhouse right outside but that was a strike.

My point is, that if you can get a following, you can fill that arena, there is plenty of population within an hour of that place from what I can tell.

The Sharks have spent a lot of time building hockey and youth hockey in the area. The iced teams that played hard early, even if they werent that successful on the ice. The team was accessible to the general public. They have mostly open practices on an ice sheet right in the middle of town across from one of the colleges. I dont know how much of this stuff the yotes do but I do think it was all key to San Joses success in the area.

Aside from that there is or was a ton of corporate money in the valley which purchased boxes and seats which they used for employees and customers which just exposed more people to the game and the team. Whats the industry like in that area? A lot of the corporations can literally get off work, go have a few drinks downtown and head over to the tank for an evening game without much effort. I truly think this helped the team since there wasnt any other major player within an hour away.

I just hope you guys get it together, I really enjoyed the game I saw down there. Good people, Nice arena. Just had a great time.

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Old
12-08-2009, 01:57 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by one2gamble View Post
Im going to jump in here for a second and hope to not upset anyone.
I would hope that post wouldn't upset anyone. I've said myself quite a few times that most of the arguments about why hockey cannot succeed in Arizona seem to be invalidated by the success of the Sharks. If the Coyotes can put a product on the ice worth watching, without the revolving door of mediocre players no one wants to see, the sheer number of people in the area ought to lend itself to a success. You can also look at the Cardinals and see how a little bit of success can turn all of those people that show up wearing other teams jerseys into fans of the local team, at least for most of the games. That alone could result in a significant increase in attendance.

Phoenix and San Jose aren't really that different. The biggest difference is how the economic downturn has effected each region. Arizona has been hit much harder than the San Francisco Bay area. I hope that timing isn't what undoes the Coyotes.

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Old
12-08-2009, 02:09 PM
  #47
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Attendance for the game vs. the Wild (Dec. 7th) noted as 8981, according to NHL.com.
From the hi-lites, it appeared more than that, especially when they scored.
Have any of you been finding attendance going up recently?

I really like the way the team is playing through this adversity.

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Old
12-08-2009, 02:22 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by marknuck311 View Post
Attendance for the game vs. the Wild (Dec. 7th) noted as 8981, according to NHL.com.
From the hi-lites, it appeared more than that, especially when they scored.
Have any of you been finding attendance going up recently?

I really like the way the team is playing through this adversity.
Last night is the first night I used Sandstorm tickets and I can tell you that the section was pretty full. I've also noticed those sections being fairly full in the games where I sat at my regular partial season ticket seat.

8981 is a pretty good number for a Monday night in horrible weather, imo. There were fewer MN fans than I expected, too.

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Old
12-08-2009, 02:59 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by marknuck311 View Post
Attendance for the game vs. the Wild (Dec. 7th) noted as 8981, according to NHL.com.
From the hi-lites, it appeared more than that, especially when they scored.
Have any of you been finding attendance going up recently?

I really like the way the team is playing through this adversity.
Last night was the first time I was genuinely surprised by the crowd. Monday night, the Wild and it was windy/rainy. Man I thought for sure the place would be a tomb but that was not even close to the case. It was a respectable crowd all things considered.

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Old
12-08-2009, 03:57 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
Last night was the first time I was genuinely surprised by the crowd. Monday night, the Wild and it was windy/rainy. Man I thought for sure the place would be a tomb but that was not even close to the case. It was a respectable crowd all things considered.
Completely agree. I got there early and was fearing it might be one of those 5,000 nights. But just before the puck dropped those Sandstorm sections filled up, and the upper level on the bench side looked nearly full.

You still saw lots of empty seats when you looked around, but 10 or 12 sections were jammed.

To my untrained eye I'd say the announced and actual weren't far apart.

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