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Is Pekka Rinne a top 12 starter in the league?

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Old
12-07-2009, 07:19 PM
  #1
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Is Pekka Rinne a top 12 starter in the league?

11-6-1, .908SV%, 2.61GAA, 2SO, faces 30+ shots every night. I say he is and hes only going to get better. He back stops a club with not much fire power up front.

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Old
12-07-2009, 08:25 PM
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MatthewT
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havn't seen enough of Rinne yet, so not sure

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Old
12-07-2009, 09:16 PM
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Albeit a small sample size, but yes.

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Old
12-07-2009, 09:25 PM
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Since the time he's entered the league, its fairly easy to put him in the top 10. He should have won the Calder over "One Month Mason" as well.

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12-07-2009, 09:29 PM
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Hell of a goaltender. I say yes.

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12-07-2009, 09:35 PM
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25th in the league in save percentage.
19th in the league in goals against.

What about that screams top...12?

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Old
12-07-2009, 09:48 PM
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Broduer
Luongo
Backstrom
Ward
Thomas
Kipprusoff
Nabakov
Lundqvist
Miller
Vokoun
Fleury
Turco

I would take these 12 over Rinne if I wanted to win now.

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Old
12-07-2009, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Datsun View Post
25th in the league in save percentage.
19th in the league in goals against.

What about that screams top...12?
The fact that the games are played on ice, and usually visually available on a television, rather then on a piece of paper or on a computer data base perhaps screams top 12 maybe even higher.

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Old
12-07-2009, 11:23 PM
  #9
Senor Catface
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordStanleysMug View Post
The fact that the games are played on ice, and usually visually available on a television, rather then on a piece of paper or on a computer data base perhaps screams top 12 maybe even higher.
Thanks tips.

So by watching the games you can see that he lets in more goals per shots then most NHL starters and is you can watch him let in more goals per game than most NHL starters.

Your snide answer aside, stats don't mean everything, but they speak strongly in extremes. Top 10 goalies don't sit almost dead last in NHL starters in save percentage.

Me commenting on lesser stats compared to other top 10 goalies doesn't equate to me saying I hate him, he's a bad player, or anything of the ilk.

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Old
12-08-2009, 12:43 AM
  #10
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Nope.

You asked now...and someone posted a list that I fairly agree with.

Future, maybe..but now..c'on

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12-08-2009, 12:46 AM
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hes no varlamov thats for sure

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Old
12-08-2009, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CircularTheory View Post
Broduer
Luongo
Backstrom
Ward
Thomas
Kipprusoff
Nabakov
Lundqvist
Miller
Vokoun
Fleury
Turco

I would take these 12 over Rinne if I wanted to win now.
I don't know about these two. Tendency to let in the bad goal.

Also Thomas and Lundquist are not having great years. Or good years for that matter.

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12-08-2009, 12:56 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Datsun View Post
Your snide answer aside, stats don't mean everything, but they speak strongly in extremes. Top 10 goalies don't sit almost dead last in NHL starters in save percentage.
1) Yes, they do.

2) The top 30 goalies in save percentage are not all starters.

As for the OP, I wouldn't say top 12, but probably top 15.

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12-08-2009, 12:58 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Datsun View Post
Thanks tips.

So by watching the games you can see that he lets in more goals per shots then most NHL starters and is you can watch him let in more goals per game than most NHL starters.

Your snide answer aside, stats don't mean everything, but they speak strongly in extremes. Top 10 goalies don't sit almost dead last in NHL starters in save percentage.

Me commenting on lesser stats compared to other top 10 goalies doesn't equate to me saying I hate him, he's a bad player, or anything of the ilk.
King Henrik is 18th in save percentage, 20th in GAA and leads the league in losses, he's not top 10 either I guess. Fleury is 30th in save percentage, but according to most people who infest these boards, he is top 10 as well. Stats get blown out of proportion here. Thats why Marian Gaborik is supposedly better than Dany Heatley and Ryan Miller is all of a sudden better than Luongo or Brodeur around here.

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Old
12-08-2009, 01:15 AM
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Originally Posted by AndreaBargnani View Post
I don't know about these two. Tendency to let in the bad goal.

Also Thomas and Lundquist are not having great years. Or good years for that matter.
You have to be CLINICALLY insane to think Rinne is anywhere near Nabakov, Lundqvist or Thomas. All 3 are arguably top 5 goalies. Rinne is nowhere near.

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Old
12-08-2009, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Datsun View Post
Top 10 goalies don't sit almost dead last in NHL starters in save percentage.
Holy overstatement. There are at least starters that are worse than him in that category: Backstrom, Huet, Fleury, Quick, Leclaire/Elliott, Smith, Emery, Gustavsson/Toskala, Ward/Legace, Mason/Garon. He's nowhere near "dead last" and it's hardly close to unheard of to be a top 10 (or top 12) goalie with stats saying he's only top 20.

LordStanleysMug's comment was definitely not uncalled for. Goaltending is a lot more than numbers.

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Old
12-08-2009, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CircularTheory View Post
Broduer
Luongo
Backstrom
Ward
Thomas
Kipprusoff
Nabakov
Lundqvist
Miller
Vokoun
Fleury
Turco

I would take these 12 over Rinne if I wanted to win now.
Rinne is absolutely in the same tier as Fleury, Turco, Vokoun and Nabokov. He's underrated, that's it. It has happened before and will continue to happen, no shock to anyone.

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Old
12-08-2009, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nashology View Post
You have to be CLINICALLY insane to think Rinne is anywhere near Nabakov, Lundqvist or Thomas. All 3 are arguably top 5 goalies. Rinne is nowhere near.
Lundqvist is ahead of him. Nabokov is very much in the same tier, and Thomas is very close as well. No knock on them in the least, just showing how underrated Rinne is.

I'll keep enjoying my clinical insanity.

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Old
12-08-2009, 05:22 AM
  #19
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Rinne is a good goalie but nowhere near top 12.

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Old
12-08-2009, 01:11 PM
  #20
Senor Catface
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
Holy overstatement. There are at least starters that are worse than him in that category: Backstrom, Huet, Fleury, Quick, Leclaire/Elliott, Smith, Emery, Gustavsson/Toskala, Ward/Legace, Mason/Garon. He's nowhere near "dead last" and it's hardly close to unheard of to be a top 10 (or top 12) goalie with stats saying he's only top 20.

LordStanleysMug's comment was definitely not uncalled for. Goaltending is a lot more than numbers.
And what a list of goalies that sit beneath him. Huet, Garon, Quick, Smith, Toskala...

I didn't say dead last keep in mind, I said near dead last.

Goaltending is more about simple numbers yes, but numbers speak a story. They reflect the reality of what's happening on the ice, and like I said, they speak in extremes...and Rinne having a very pedestrian stat-line is an great example of that.

People list examples of top 10 goalies that are in the lower categories for stats right now, and that's fine. But they get a degree of benefit of doubt because they've earned the acclaim...that's something that Rinne has to be, because frankly he hasn't done anything to get top 10 in the league for goaltenders.

What has Rinne done that puts him up in the top 10?

Maybe instead of detailing the faults in my points, you should list your own.

Unless we're going under the aforementioned assumption, that you just have to "watch" him every game to see he's just that good?

Where does he fit with

Luongo
Kipper
Broduer
Lindquist
Fleury
Miller
Nabokov
Turco
Thomas
Ward


I mean, even goalies like Rask, Roloson and Varlamov are playing better than him at the moment, and yes, I've watched them.

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Old
12-08-2009, 07:38 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Datsun View Post
Goaltending is more about simple numbers yes, but numbers speak a story. They reflect the reality of what's happening on the ice (...)
They reflect other numbers that happen on the ice, the number of shots and the number of saves. Two more numbers that are very much real, but do themselves not hold very much actual value in determining a goaltender's abilities. The difference between a "very pedestrian" savepercentage of around .900 and a top-whatever of .920 can very well be two more converted 2-0 breaks over a span of one hundred shots. Numbers are nice, I love to use them as well, but even using it in a more moderate way as you suggest won't help us a lot to determine their abilities. If numbers worked safely even only "in extremes", a goaltender like Backstrom, who is clearly among the better goalies, could not stand at the number he does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Datsun View Post
What has Rinne done that puts him up in the top 10?
In my opinion, he has played well enough to deserve serious consideration for the top 12, as was asked by the creator of the thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Datsun View Post
Unless we're going under the aforementioned assumption, that you just have to "watch" him every game to see he's just that good?
It would be silly to just have to watch "him", you would have to watch all the other guys as well. Not every game, but the more the better. Personally, I don't feel like I have seen every goalie play enough to be serious about a list. Then I never know how to value certain things in such a list... Of course, the focus needs to be on how they're playing "now", but where am I supposed to put guys like Lundqvist or Ward, who haven't been at their very best so far but are no doubt among the best goalies in the league...?

Anyway: Rinne has been a lot better than Turco last year and is at least on par with him this year, imo. I really don't think Fleury is better than him, either. Nabokov, to me, is basically in the same tier of goaltenders, between who the rankings would change too quickly to really call it. Goalies that are clearly better than him in my opinion are Luongo, Brodeur, Lundqvist and Miller. Kipper is right now, but hasn't been last year. Thomas was last year, although not by a ridiculously huge margin, and isn't far from him this year, either (again: in my opinion). Same could be said for Ward, who was a bit better last year, but is hard to judge due to his injury and play for a struggling team early on. Nicklas Backstrom and Tomas Vokoun are great goalies (with very different numbers this year), who deserve to be mentioned with the likes of Nabokov or Thomas as well, which forms a larger category of goalies that in my opinion Rinne should be included in.

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Old
12-08-2009, 09:46 PM
  #22
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Should have won the Calder last year.

He is a top 15 goalie at least, and eventually will be way up there.

He keeps his team in a ton of games.

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