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...SECOND Best Player of All Time...

View Poll Results: 2nd best player of all time?
Gordie Howe 22 10.95%
Bobby Orr 86 42.79%
Mario Lemieux 71 35.32%
Rocket Richard 3 1.49%
Doug Harvey 1 0.50%
Terry Sawchuk 1 0.50%
Guy Lafleur 0 0%
Other (specify). 17 8.46%
Voters: 201. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-08-2009, 07:00 PM
  #51
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Mariusz Czerkawski

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12-08-2009, 07:06 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by TOMapleLaughs View Post
Coffey is pretty darn underrated if you ask me. Being 12th overall in career scoring while being over a point-per-game for his career is amazing for a defenseman. He either owns or comes fairly close to Orr in every defenseman scoring record.

One of the fastest, if not the fastest skaters ever, Coffey had 'game-changer' written all over him.

Still, i had him ranked 10th. Big deal. Tomorrow i could pick Sakic.
Why they never made Coffey a winger is beyond me. He might've been one of the very best ever at that position. His physical game as a defenseman was nonexistent.

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Old
12-08-2009, 07:19 PM
  #53
Hawkey Town 18
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Why they never made Coffey a winger is beyond me. He might've been one of the very best ever at that position. His physical game as a defenseman was nonexistent.
Because when you have the greatest offensive force you've ever seen on your team and plenty of other very good wingers, you leave a guy like that back on D to get them the puck.

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Old
12-08-2009, 07:46 PM
  #54
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This poll is flawed. I would consider Gretzky #1 but it's just my opinion.

How can you just assume that your own opinion is what everyone else thinks?

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Old
12-08-2009, 08:09 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by hotshot1 View Post
This poll is flawed. I would consider Gretzky #1 but it's just my opinion.

How can you just assume that your own opinion is what everyone else thinks?
There's definitely no consensus for greatest player overall. Positionally, I think Orr is the only guy who nobody will argue against as the best at his position (although Howe and Hull should be consensus at the wing positions IMO).

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Old
12-08-2009, 08:30 PM
  #56
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I'd be forced to take #4 if he'd played a full career, but Howe lasted so many years it's mind boggling.

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Old
12-08-2009, 08:37 PM
  #57
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Rich Peverly. That's still funny, right?

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12-08-2009, 08:46 PM
  #58
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If Mario Lemieux played defence he still woulda hit 200 points.

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Old
12-08-2009, 08:57 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Godric View Post
If Mario Lemieux played defence he still woulda hit 200 points.
I don't see how that is possible seeing as he never hit 200 points as a forward.

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Old
12-08-2009, 10:24 PM
  #60
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I personally feel Lemiux is the best and if he didn't get owned by injuries would pass Gretzky.

I am young though so...... ya

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Old
12-08-2009, 10:27 PM
  #61
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1. Gretzky
2. Orr
3. Lemieux
4. Howe

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Old
12-09-2009, 02:03 AM
  #62
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Gretzky is also underrated by many. While Orr was certainly a great player in his prime, Gretzky absolutely transcended the game.

There will always be an Orr-Gretzky debate, but what Orr-defenders base their argument is how great he would have been, IF he had a long career.

Bummer about the knee, Bobby, but Gretzky, who owns almost every record, had a longer career with more cups. And there's no argument that changes that.


The advantage of having a shorter career is that nobody knows how worse they would've gotten past their prime. All anybody remembers is how this great player was robbed of his longevity. But here's the thing... Longevity matters. Ask Gordie Howe.

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Old
12-09-2009, 02:20 AM
  #63
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Almost everyone would agree that Gretzky is the best of all time... who, in your view, is the second best player to ever lace up a pair of skates?
Orr was the best, Gretzky is the 2nd best.

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Old
12-09-2009, 02:24 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by TOMapleLaughs View Post
Gretzky is also underrated by many. While Orr was certainly a great player in his prime, Gretzky absolutely transcended the game.

There will always be an Orr-Gretzky debate, but what Orr-defenders base their argument is how great he would have been, IF he had a long career.

Bummer about the knee, Bobby, but Gretzky, who owns almost every record, had a longer career with more cups. And there's no argument that changes that.


The advantage of having a shorter career is that nobody knows how worse they would've gotten past their prime. All anybody remembers is how this great player was robbed of his longevity. But here's the thing... Longevity matters. Ask Gordie Howe.
I base what I say on what I saw, and Orr was the best player I ever saw, bar none. Gretzky is the 2nd best bar none. Longevity doesn't matter at all when the question is who is the best player of all time, it does matter if you ask who had the best career of all time.

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Old
12-09-2009, 02:38 AM
  #65
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Adam is clearly #1, with Eve at first runner up.


Jeeez, they could play hockey back then.

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Old
12-09-2009, 02:43 AM
  #66
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I've always liked Lemieux better than Gretzky. And Orr and Gretzky are about even in my mind. I'd have:
1. Lemieux
2. Orr
2b. Gretzky
not2b... wow, lame joke, sorry.. Anyways

But that's really just a personal opinion, I like how Lemieux played better.

I think people have enough time fighting over who the second best player this season is, to pull in all time is just silly.

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Old
12-09-2009, 02:48 AM
  #67
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My arguement against Waynderful being the undisputed #1 is although he put up some unbelievable #'s up, he failed to win a cup after he left Edmonton.

One could argue that the 80's Oilers teams were so powerful that they would have won those cups without The Great One. In fact the Oilers did win the next season after he was traded to L.A. (traded summer '88, won in 90.)

Gretzky made one SCF after leaving the powerhouse Oilers, and I don't remember any memorable playoff performances after that one. (correct me if I'm wrong)

This is not a case for Orr, Lemieux, or Howe, as I only got to see one of them play, so my opinion would likely be biased (I liked Lemieux's style of play, more than Gretzky) I just don't think we can say W.G. is the undisputed best player of all time.


Last edited by Frank Drebin: 12-09-2009 at 02:56 AM.
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Old
12-09-2009, 03:30 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
My arguement against Waynderful being the undisputed #1 is although he put up some unbelievable #'s up, he failed to win a cup after he left Edmonton.

One could argue that the 80's Oilers teams were so powerful that they would have won those cups without The Great One. In fact the Oilers did win the next season after he was traded to L.A. (traded summer '88, won in 90.)

Gretzky made one SCF after leaving the powerhouse Oilers, and I don't remember any memorable playoff performances after that one. (correct me if I'm wrong)

This is not a case for Orr, Lemieux, or Howe, as I only got to see one of them play, so my opinion would likely be biased (I liked Lemieux's style of play, more than Gretzky) I just don't think we can say W.G. is the undisputed best player of all time.
None of the Top 4 players of all time (Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux, Howe) ever won a Cup with more than 1 team. So I'm not sure how the fact that Gretzky didn't is relevant.

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Old
12-09-2009, 03:56 AM
  #69
Frank Drebin
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
None of the Top 4 players of all time (Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux, Howe) ever won a Cup with more than 1 team. So I'm not sure how the fact that Gretzky didn't is relevant.
The other three spent their entire careers with one team, with the exception of Orr who played a handful of games with the Hawks with bad knees.

Gretzky was traded in his prime and failed to bring a home a Stanley Cup "on his own". One could argue that the 80's Oilers were powerful enough to win without him.

Was Gretzky good enough to win a cup on his own? I'm sure he was but he didn't prove it during his career.

I guess a similar arguement could be made against Howe, 25 years in the league (a good portion of it 6 team) and only 3 cups.


Last edited by Frank Drebin: 12-09-2009 at 04:02 AM.
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Old
12-09-2009, 04:49 AM
  #70
TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
The other three spent their entire careers with one team, with the exception of Orr who played a handful of games with the Hawks with bad knees.

Gretzky was traded in his prime and failed to bring a home a Stanley Cup "on his own". One could argue that the 80's Oilers were powerful enough to win without him.

Was Gretzky good enough to win a cup on his own? I'm sure he was but he didn't prove it during his career.

I guess a similar arguement could be made against Howe, 25 years in the league (a good portion of it 6 team) and only 3 cups.

Or for Mario Lemieux, who has a mere 2 Cups, and never won anything until both Jaromir Jagr and Ron Francis came to town.

Minor correction - Gordie Howe has 4 Cups, all early in his career.

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Old
12-09-2009, 05:08 AM
  #71
Frank Drebin
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Or for Mario Lemieux, who has a mere 2 Cups, and never won anything until both Jaromir Jagr and Ron Francis came to town.

Minor correction - Gordie Howe has 4 Cups, all early in his career.
Although a strong team, Penguins do not win those cups without Mario. Can you say the same about the 80's Oilers without Gretzky?

Gretzky was great, no doubt but it just bothers me when he is referred to as the undisputed greatest of all time.

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Old
12-09-2009, 09:41 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
None of the Top 4 players of all time (Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux, Howe) ever won a Cup with more than 1 team. So I'm not sure how the fact that Gretzky didn't is relevant.
Or more appropriately, none of the Big 4 ever won the Cup without a ridiculously stacked team around them.

Gretzky had Messier, Coffey, Anderson, Kurri, Fuhr.

Orr had Esposito, Hodge, Bucyk, Cheevers, etc.

Howe had Lindsay, Delvecchio, Kelly, Abel, Sawchuk, etc.

Lemieux had Francis, Stevens, Coffey/Murphy, Jagr, Tocchet, etc.


Just goes to show that you can't do it all by yourself.

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12-09-2009, 04:16 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by arrbez View Post
Or more appropriately, none of the Big 4 ever won the Cup without a ridiculously stacked team around them.

Gretzky had Messier, Coffey, Anderson, Kurri, Fuhr.

Orr had Esposito, Hodge, Bucyk, Cheevers, etc.

Howe had Lindsay, Delvecchio, Kelly, Abel, Sawchuk, etc.

Lemieux had Francis, Stevens, Coffey/Murphy, Jagr, Tocchet, etc.


Just goes to show that you can't do it all by yourself.
Exactly - though Gretzky did come awfully close with LA; losing in the Cup Finals in '93 and they did beat the Oilers in the playoffs the very first year after he was traded.

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Old
12-09-2009, 04:20 PM
  #74
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#1 Wayne Gretzky
#2 Mario Lemieux
#3 Bobby Orr

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Old
12-09-2009, 04:23 PM
  #75
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Orr
Lemieux/Howe
Gretzky
Peverley

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