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Vyacheslav Starshinov

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Old
12-09-2009, 02:14 PM
  #1
Triffy
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Vyacheslav Starshinov

The discussion in the all-time draft forum caught my attention. I think Vyacheslav Starshinov is getting nowhere near the respect the man deserves. Starshinov is unquestionably one of the greatest Soviet hockey players ever. He played in 10 IIHF World Championships and won nine straight gold medals from 1963 - 1971.

Soviet League Top 5 Finishes
Player1st2nd3rd4th5thTop 3Top 5
Larionov0210235
Petrov5110178
Almetov1211146
Maltsev1120044
Starshinov2131269

This table only contains centers to highlight Starshinov's offensive dominance.

A slightly different view of offensive dominance...

Scoring Index Numbers
PlayerH5H3
Petrov 115,40 123,72
Starshinov 109,37 118,01
Almetov 96,88 100,85
Maltsev 95,49 101,77
Larionov 90,69 97,33

100 points is given to the guy who finished 2nd in every year. For example, in 1978, the scoring chart looked like this:

1. Vladimir Petrov 53 points
2. Boris Mikhailov 52 points

52 points will be given the index value of 100. Petrov's 53 points will earn him 53/52*100 = 101,92 index points. H5 is the average amount of index points for the 5 best seasons the player had. H3 is the average for the 3 best seasons.


The results do not change. Petrov and Starshinov still are the most productive Soviet centers.

Now let's see how Starshinov does against not only centers, but all forwards...

Soviet League Top 5 Finishes
PlayerTop-3Top-5
Guryshev910
Makarov 9 9
Petrov7 8
Krutov 7 7
Bobrov 6 6
Starshinov 6 9
Aleksandrov5 6
B. Mayorov5 6
Mikhailov5 10
Balderis 5 7
Shuvalov 4 5
Almetov 4 6
Maltsev 4 4
Firsov 3 5
A. Yakushev 3 5
Kharlamov 3 5
Larionov 3 5

Starshinov was the most productive Soviet league player of his era. Even if he was fairly one-dimensional player in the sense that his goals-to-assists ratio is very high (I did a little study about this subject but can't find the numbers), he was also known as an inspirational leader, known for his toughness and according to Starshinov himself, he was defensively responsible as well.

Some quotes I once dug up....

Quote:
Originally Posted by chidlovski.com
Vyacheslav Starshinov is recognized as one of the most successful Soviet centers. He was ranked first on the list of the top scoring Soviet leader for decades till Boris Mikhailov broke his scoring record. As a part of the famous Spartak's line where he played with Yevgeny and Boris Mayorov, Starshinov was famous for his goals scored in front of the net and on the rebounds. His trademarks were wicked shot on the net from any angle and a feisty character, his love to play physical and hard-hitting hockey. As a player of Moscow Spartak, Starshinov was one of the most valuable players in its championships of the 1960's. On both national and club level, he was a team leader and enjoyed an enormous respect among his teammates.
http://www.chidlovski.com/personal/1...oster/ru08.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonid Trachtenberg and Starshinov himself
- Due to what you have managed to score so much?

- If you talk about the top three, we were with Boris' left-handed ", that in hockey, as in boxing, tennis or fencing, creating additional inconvenience to the opponent. But just as importantly, we all went out on the ice, kept in a boyish excitement, and were willing to die for their team. And this power, multiplied by ostrokombinatsionny style of play, and was, perhaps, our main weapon.

- However, most often in the "firing line" proved it was you.

- I was just at the right time and place.

- As Phil Esposito?

- Probably. By size, it is true, I concede to him, but, as he rushed to the snout, where, incidentally, very painful beating. And he could score when the two defenders were already hanging on my shoulders. And, incidentally, I like Frontline, it was necessary first to rush to the aid of our defense, which I never forgot.
http://translate.google.com/translat...2-07%2F12_1%2F
Quote:
Starshinov was professional to the bone.
http://translate.google.com/translat...5-10%2F16_5%2F

Quote:
He was not captain, but was an informal leader of the greatest of all our teams.
http://translate.google.com/translat...6%2F62422.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by chidlovski.com
Starshinov's line was famous for their aggressive style. Starshinov and, especially, Boris Mayorov loved to fight.
http://www.chidlovski.com/personal/1...ers/segold.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starshinov
For me and my partners in the Soviet national team of the sample 60-s duty to the country was paramount. We were brought up in the spirit of collectivism and comradeship.
http://translate.google.com/translat...c%26toid%3D338

As already described above, Starshinov was willing and able to get in front of the net to do his thing - score goals.

Quote:
This is generally a difficult thing - to score goals, but strikes in melee - doubly difficult. Place next to the gate rivals - the most uncomfortable for the attacker. Here he does not give a moment's rest, here he earns a lot of bruises and lumps. But Starshinov chose for himself exactly that position, the hardest. Perhaps, in the Soviet hockey was another such a central striker, who, famous for high productivity, yet was able to neutralize the strongest contenders. Starshinov consistently appeared on the ice, when Spartak were in the minority. Outwardly little clumsy, seemingly off-site slow and phlegmatic, he is in such cases was transformed. Starshinov grew towards each assailant, he was always ready to meet feeding the puck, throw a shot, and thus close the gate himself embrasure. Honored Master of Sport Vyacheslav Starshinov - one of the most successful strikers in Soviet hockey.
About his perfomance at the 1963 Stockholm World Championships...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Komsomolskaya Pravda
Eight Stockholm washers Vyacheslav Starshinova - the result of ingenious combinations, not just delighted the fans. Elegance reaction emotsianalnost, chess combination game instinct, allowing Starshinova anticipate developments in the field for a long time in advance - that the qualities which made him one of the heroes of the tournament.
http://translate.google.com/translat...starshinov.php

I guess it's just about appreciation towards Soviet hockey in general in the 60's. Depending on how much you value the best players of the era, you either rank Starshinov very high or low.

My top 10 would probably include (in alphabetical order)...

Balderis
Firsov
Kharlamov
Krutov
Larionov
Makarov
Maltsev
Mikhailov
Petrov
Starshinov

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Old
12-09-2009, 03:00 PM
  #2
Canadiens1958
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Excellent Contribution

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triffy View Post
The discussion in the all-time draft forum caught my attention. I think Vyacheslav Starshinov is getting nowhere near the respect the man deserves. Starshinov is unquestionably one of the greatest Soviet hockey players ever. He played in 10 IIHF World Championships and won nine straight gold medals from 1963 - 1971.

Soviet League Top 5 Finishes
Player1st2nd3rd4th5thTop 3Top 5
Larionov0210235
Petrov5110178
Almetov1211146
Maltsev1120044
Starshinov2131269

This table only contains centers to highlight Starshinov's offensive dominance.

A slightly different view of offensive dominance...

Scoring Index Numbers
PlayerH5H3
Petrov 115,40 123,72
Starshinov 109,37 118,01
Almetov 96,88 100,85
Maltsev 95,49 101,77
Larionov 90,69 97,33

100 points is given to the guy who finished 2nd in every year. For example, in 1978, the scoring chart looked like this:

1. Vladimir Petrov 53 points
2. Boris Mikhailov 52 points

52 points will be given the index value of 100. Petrov's 53 points will earn him 53/52*100 = 101,92 index points. H5 is the average amount of index points for the 5 best seasons the player had. H3 is the average for the 3 best seasons.


The results do not change. Petrov and Starshinov still are the most productive Soviet centers.

Now let's see how Starshinov does against not only centers, but all forwards...

Soviet League Top 5 Finishes
PlayerTop-3Top-5
Guryshev910
Makarov 9 9
Petrov7 8
Krutov 7 7
Bobrov 6 6
Starshinov 6 9
Aleksandrov5 6
B. Mayorov5 6
Mikhailov5 10
Balderis 5 7
Shuvalov 4 5
Almetov 4 6
Maltsev 4 4
Firsov 3 5
A. Yakushev 3 5
Kharlamov 3 5
Larionov 3 5

Starshinov was the most productive Soviet league player of his era. Even if he was fairly one-dimensional player in the sense that his goals-to-assists ratio is very high (I did a little study about this subject but can't find the numbers), he was also known as an inspirational leader, known for his toughness and according to Starshinov himself, he was defensively responsible as well.

Some quotes I once dug up....



http://www.chidlovski.com/personal/1...oster/ru08.htm



http://translate.google.com/translat...2-07%2F12_1%2F


http://translate.google.com/translat...5-10%2F16_5%2F



http://translate.google.com/translat...6%2F62422.html



http://www.chidlovski.com/personal/1...ers/segold.htm



http://translate.google.com/translat...c%26toid%3D338

As already described above, Starshinov was willing and able to get in front of the net to do his thing - score goals.



About his perfomance at the 1963 Stockholm World Championships...



http://translate.google.com/translat...starshinov.php

I guess it's just about appreciation towards Soviet hockey in general in the 60's. Depending on how much you value the best players of the era, you either rank Starshinov very high or low.

My top 10 would probably include (in alphabetical order)...

Balderis
Firsov
Kharlamov
Krutov
Larionov
Makarov
Maltsev
Mikhailov
Petrov
Starshinov
Triffy, another excellent contribution. Keep the info coming.

Saw Starshinov play a few times with touring Soviet teams. He impressed but the level of competition often did not put him to a true test. He had a bit of a bite to his game. Defensive skills were hard to judge since the quality of the opposition did not require the constant adjustments that elite players bring to the rink.

Vyacheslav Starshinov played for Spartak. Spartak players tend to be under appreciated since they did not have the profile of CSKA players. Also their Soviet league stats have to be viewed from the standpoint that they were generated partially in games against CSKA which was the elite squad in the Soviet League.


Last edited by Canadiens1958: 12-09-2009 at 08:26 PM. Reason: typo
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Old
12-09-2009, 03:20 PM
  #3
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I agree, Starshinov is criminally underrated.

From the Red Machine by Lawrence Martin:

Quote:
Starshinov, the most outstanding of the three forwards, was a man of peasant stock whose bear-like strength allowed him to hold position in front of the enemy goal. His style approximated that of Bobby Clarke of the Philadelphia Flyers, but he had twice the heft of Clarke. He was probably the most effective Russian against Canada in the decade. In the Soviet league, where careers were usually shorter than in the NHL, especially for forwards, Starshinov was an exceptional iron man. He played from 1957 to 1975, scoring 404 goals in 510 league games.
I don't think he was similar to Clarke offensively (sounds more like Esposito) but I think they're referring to his feistiness and will to win.

In the book it also talks about how Starshinov he wanted nothing more than to play against NHL players in '72 because he loved the tough, physical brand of hockey they played but he just wasn't as effective any more.

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Old
12-09-2009, 04:30 PM
  #4
seventieslord
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I also think Starshinov is underrated. By some measures he would look almost like Firsov's equal.

Using Russian top-5 and top-3 finishes doesn't always work though. By that chart he would look very close to Petrov, but when Petrov played, the Russians were much closer to the best in the world than they were when Starshinov played.

The All-time draft, which features some of the best hockey history brains on this board, is an indication of what the current valuation is for Starshinov. His draft position has varied wildly, but has averaged 443rd in the last four drafts. Personally I think that should be cut in half, to around 220th, based on the data available in terms of stats, and quotes about his intangibles. He should also get serious HHOF consideration, but only after guys like Makarov, Firsov, Petrov, Mikhailov, and Maltsev do.

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Old
12-10-2009, 02:46 AM
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"He played from 1957 to 1975, scoring 404 goals in 510 league games."

That is insane

/Cheers

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Old
12-10-2009, 03:05 AM
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Based on this, I'd compare him to somebody like Ilya Kovalchuk. Good goalscorer with a fiery edge.

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12-10-2009, 03:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
He should also get serious HHOF consideration, but only after guys like Makarov, Firsov, Petrov, Mikhailov, and Maltsev do.
And after Krutov

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Old
12-10-2009, 09:43 AM
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I had him in an ATD on another forum and felt he was grossly under-rated. I would be cautious about condemning him about the lack of assists though as the research I did, albeit somewhat limited, indicated that the tracking of assists during his day was not exactly thorough and there was apparantly no second assists awarded in those days.

I had him on a line with John Tonelli and Bob Nystrom, killer line in my opinion.

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12-10-2009, 09:55 AM
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Great player, awefull "prof". He was the Chair of Athletics in my university - would never, never show up for work

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12-10-2009, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Preisst View Post
I had him in an ATD on another forum and felt he was grossly under-rated. I would be cautious about condemning him about the lack of assists though as the research I did, albeit somewhat limited, indicated that the tracking of assists during his day was not exactly thorough and there was apparantly no second assists awarded in those days.

I had him on a line with John Tonelli and Bob Nystrom, killer line in my opinion.
In a 16-team draft, yes, that would be a killer 4th line

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