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#29: Senators @ Flyers - December 10, 2009 - 7:00 PM (ET)

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12-11-2009, 10:44 AM
  #701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I agree, despite the results to this point...I see signs of long term improvement that should pay dividends.
I hope long term turns out to be "January" rather than "start of the 2010/2011 season."

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12-11-2009, 10:46 AM
  #702
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I hope long term turns out to be "January" rather than "start of the 2010/2011 season."
I am pretty confident that we will make the playoffs...but probably as the 6-8 seed no one wants, rather than with home ice. They just need to get on a little bit of a tear and we'll be up over .500.

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12-11-2009, 10:50 AM
  #703
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I would bag skate this team again after PP practice. Even know there were not too many bad penalties in last nights game. Just to piss them off and to **** with them. Keep their mind on skating instead of frustration.

Flyers will get Gagne and Carcillo back real soon. gagne with Richards and Hartnell with Carter will help. As strange as it may sound I also think playing on the road will help. No pressure.

I love how Carter plays lately. He did not score yesterday but he was a force.


Last edited by Kaktus*: 12-11-2009 at 10:57 AM.
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12-11-2009, 11:22 AM
  #704
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I think with this new up tempo pressure game, it is going to take our skill players some time to adjust to create scoring chances. Before everything seemed so slow and sloppy, that they had more time to create scoring chances.

When Gags comes back


Coburn and Hartnell for Jack Johnson and ?????
I think that game will definitely be a good fit, it will just take some time for them to change their mentality. Skilled guys like Briere, Grioux and JVR should really benefit from it.

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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
I would bag skate this team again after PP practice. Even know there were not too many bad penalties in last nights game. Just to piss them off and to **** with them. Keep their mind on skating instead of frustration.

Flyers will get Gagne and Carcillo back real soon. gagne with Richards and Hartnell with Carter will help. As strange as it may sound I also think playing on the road will help. No pressure.

I love how Carter plays lately. He did not score yesterday but he was a force.
He did look good last night.....He can be a dominant player when he wants, he needs to put in a more consistent effort.

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12-11-2009, 11:44 AM
  #705
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
I would bag skate this team again after PP practice.
If you were a new coach with a new system to teach and no time in which to teach it, you'd spend precious practice time on skating?

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12-11-2009, 12:10 PM
  #706
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If you were a new coach with a new system to teach and no time in which to teach it, you'd spend precious practice time on skating?
Effort is there, 5 on 5 looks good with one exception bad luck (mostly), players seem to support each other on the ice, rotating looked ok most of the time when our d-men pinched in, PK better, PP generates chances but needs a bit of work (mostly moving people around), like Carter should probably stay in front of the net instead of passing to d-men on point, physical play improved.

Our D did not give up much last night with few exceptions, Spezza’s break away and Coburn ****ed up (he should of never been there in the last minute of the game in the 1st place)

We need some more imotions and we need to limit those penalties (still). Things are getting better.


What improvements would you want to see after Sens game? Not much really. PP improvements and less penalties, more emotions and physical play.


Last edited by Kaktus*: 12-11-2009 at 12:15 PM.
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12-11-2009, 12:19 PM
  #707
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You never bench a guy because they're playing your team.

Unless you're an Eagles fan who listened to WIP and benched Drew Brees when they played the Eagles. They learned the hard way.

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12-11-2009, 12:29 PM
  #708
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Things are getting better.
I think they outplayed some teams in Stevens' last weeks, too.

I'm just saying that is a bad time to try and install new tactics; every second of practice time is too dear to spend on punishment.

It is frustrating to watch, that's for sure.

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12-11-2009, 12:35 PM
  #709
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I don't know what the last off-day brought, but the first one they worked on drills. I'm assuming the second off-day was the power play.

He's not going to start punishing players for making mistakes on a system everyone's not on board with yet.

The problem with this is they're being expected to win games at the same time, which...they should be. But when you're making this type of drastic change, they're going to lose games because of it. It's like pre-season all over again, which is why if they were going to fire Stevens, it would have been nice to do after the Atlanta game so that he would have 5 full days with the team before playing a game.

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12-11-2009, 01:05 PM
  #710
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I don't know what the last off-day brought, but the first one they worked on drills. I'm assuming the second off-day was the power play.

He's not going to start punishing players for making mistakes on a system everyone's not on board with yet.

The problem with this is they're being expected to win games at the same time, which...they should be. But when you're making this type of drastic change, they're going to lose games because of it. It's like pre-season all over again, which is why if they were going to fire Stevens, it would have been nice to do after the Atlanta game so that he would have 5 full days with the team before playing a game.
Holmgren didn't want to fire his buddy...and admitted as much. Understandable, but Holmgren has absolutely butchered this season as a GM thus far. Questionable goaltending situation (hurt or not, Emery has been inconsistent), destroyed the salary cap, and lingered on making a decision about a coach that even he has questioned dating back to previous seasons.

It's great to be a good GM in June, but Cups are not won then.

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12-11-2009, 01:05 PM
  #711
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I don't know what the last off-day brought, but the first one they worked on drills. I'm assuming the second off-day was the power play.

He's not going to start punishing players for making mistakes on a system everyone's not on board with yet.

The problem with this is they're being expected to win games at the same time, which...they should be. But when you're making this type of drastic change, they're going to lose games because of it. It's like pre-season all over again, which is why if they were going to fire Stevens, it would have been nice to do after the Atlanta game so that he would have 5 full days with the team before playing a game.
I feel like that's the best shot they had to do in-season, and that at such a time it would still be questionable (not because Stevens didn't deserve it, but because of the lack of time the new coach would have). I still wish they had the foresight to do it in the offseason.

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12-11-2009, 01:09 PM
  #712
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
I think they outplayed some teams in Stevens' last weeks, too.

I'm just saying that is a bad time to try and install new tactics; every second of practice time is too dear to spend on punishment.

It is frustrating to watch, that's for sure.
Bad time? After two years of doing pretty much whatever the **** they wanted under your boy Stevens it's never a bad time to punish these lazy mother****ers.

We play NJD and Pittsburgh real soon.. NJ, very disciplined hockey team and Pittsburgh would love nothing more then to score 2-3 PP goals against slumping can't score a single goal Flyers

Now, you tell me.. Can we take 5 penalties against any of those clubs? Bad penalties as Hartnell called (trippig or an elbow) or good penalties. Penalties in general.


Last edited by Kaktus*: 12-11-2009 at 01:16 PM.
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12-11-2009, 01:15 PM
  #713
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Another thing to consider about last night is that we were probably absolutely gassed. Back to backs on Monday/Tues playing at a very high tempo, then a hard practice on Wednesday, and then back to playing a high-tempo game on Thursday, I wouldn't be surprised if guys just weren't in shape for it, the Stevens "Stand around and watch in the defensive zone" strategy doesn't exactly require a massive amount of cardiovascular fitness.

I tend to side with those saying that the good signs are there, I wouldn't say Elliot stood on his head, but he was pretty good and we got another bad bounce that went for a goal against just like we were unlucky in the MTL game (BS penalty and if that shot by Bergeron is an inch higher, we're going to OT).

The real question is whether we'll have it turned around in time to make the playoffs, I tend to think we will, the NHL season is pretty damn long, but it's probably going to be a tough road.

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12-11-2009, 01:16 PM
  #714
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Bad tme? After two years of doing pretty much whatever the **** they wanted it's never a bad time to punish these lazy mother****ers.

We play NJD and Pittsburgh real soon.. NJ are very disciplined hockey team and Pittsburgh would love nothing more then to score 2-3 PP goals against slumping can't score a single goal Flyers

Now, you tell me.. Can we take 5 penalties against any of those clubs? Bad penalties as Hartnell called (trippig or an elbow) or good penalties. Penalties in general.
Yeah, the logic doesn't make any sense...getting the stupid penalties under control is just as much a coaching issue to be dealt with as dealing with the systemic stuff.

"Good" penalties will happen, and good teams force you to take some "good" penalties, so it's really just the idiotic BS that needs to get reined in. The unnecessary hit, the hook in the neutral zone, etc.

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12-11-2009, 01:21 PM
  #715
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I have to post this from the other thread:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=711550&page=2

Quote:
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There is no such thing as a bigger problem than goaltending.
Not sorry, JXC.

You need to score goals to win. Even if you go to a shootout, you need to score goals to win.

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12-11-2009, 01:22 PM
  #716
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Yeah, the logic doesn't make any sense...getting the stupid penalties under control is just as much a coaching issue to be dealt with as dealing with the systemic stuff.

"Good" penalties will happen, and good teams force you to take some "good" penalties, so it's really just the idiotic BS that needs to get reined in. The unnecessary hit, the hook in the neutral zone, etc.
Yeah I mean if Spezza is about to break on 1 on 1 with Boucher and you trip him, I am fine with it. If you slash Malkin or Crosby on empty net, I am fine with it. If you take instigator penalty and smash Cooks face because he ran Briere or any of our skilled guys, I am fine with it.. Those type of "good penalties" I am fine with.

Everything else.. work your tail off and show me some god damn effort. Make a play with out taking a penalty. Anyone can take a good penalty.


Last edited by Kaktus*: 12-11-2009 at 01:28 PM.
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12-11-2009, 01:26 PM
  #717
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
If you were a new coach with a new system to teach and no time in which to teach it, you'd spend precious practice time on skating?
No play can get developed without proper skating. Whip the team into shape by have them doing a lot of skating and work on positioning, they know how to do the rest.

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12-11-2009, 01:29 PM
  #718
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I'm 99.9% convinced that the off ice stuff has caused a division within the room.

Something just doesn't feel right, and that's what I'm attributing it to. Stevens is gone, but I think some other personnel changes are in order.

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12-11-2009, 01:31 PM
  #719
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Quote:
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I'm 99.9% convinced that the off ice stuff has caused a division within the room.

Something just doesn't feel right, and that's what I'm attributing it to. Stevens is gone, but I think some other personnel changes are in order.
Winning solves a lot of problems.

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12-11-2009, 01:33 PM
  #720
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Originally Posted by Opus View Post
I'm 99.9% convinced that the off ice stuff has caused a division within the room.

Something just doesn't feel right, and that's what I'm attributing it to. Stevens is gone, but I think some other personnel changes are in order.
I disagree.

All the "partying" and "locker room turmoil" stuff is really bothering me. I'm not saying everyone is best friends, or even gets along for that matter. I think it's just people/the media looking for excuses.

We are just in the perfect storm of things going wrong and the team is feeling pressure. I think we will be absolutely fine.

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12-11-2009, 01:43 PM
  #721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Winning solves a lot of problems.
Absolutely, no question.

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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
I disagree.

All the "partying" and "locker room turmoil" stuff is really bothering me. I'm not saying everyone is best friends, or even gets along for that matter. I think it's just people/the media looking for excuses.

We are just in the perfect storm of things going wrong and the team is feeling pressure. I think we will be absolutely fine.
We agree to disagree.

With all the nonsense we've read, heard...I can't help but to think it's something that's scratching the surface. Generally, where there's smoke -- there is fire. Not saying it's a blazing inferno (by any stretch the imagination), but I can't help but to think there is some sort of division in that locker room.

I can't imagine that players like Laperriere and Pronger are into most of that off ice jazz. Whether it be age/maturity (family), or just a straighter focus on the task at hand...I can't see that it's NOT a problem of some degree.

Before I get flamed, I full well know and acknowledge that I don't think these guys shouldn't have fun...I think it becomes a problem when the fun gets in the way of work. I feel that's the case, as we're seeing this team **** the bed.

We have the talent, the team is lacking heart and focus.

Firing John Stevens doesn't help that, there is (IMO) a bigger issue with this team.

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12-11-2009, 01:43 PM
  #722
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
I disagree.

All the "partying" and "locker room turmoil" stuff is really bothering me. I'm not saying everyone is best friends, or even gets along for that matter. I think it's just people/the media looking for excuses.

We are just in the perfect storm of things going wrong and the team is feeling pressure. I think we will be absolutely fine.
Pretty much how I feel. This speculation crap is just the media contemplating because they have nothing better to write about.

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12-11-2009, 02:05 PM
  #723
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We agree to disagree.

With all the nonsense we've read, heard...I can't help but to think it's something that's scratching the surface. Generally, where there's smoke -- there is fire. Not saying it's a blazing inferno (by any stretch the imagination), but I can't help but to think there is some sort of division in that locker room.

I can't imagine that players like Laperriere and Pronger are into most of that off ice jazz. Whether it be age/maturity (family), or just a straighter focus on the task at hand...I can't see that it's NOT a problem of some degree.

Before I get flamed, I full well know and acknowledge that I don't think these guys shouldn't have fun...I think it becomes a problem when the fun gets in the way of work. I feel that's the case, as we're seeing this team **** the bed.

We have the talent, the team is lacking heart and focus.

Firing John Stevens doesn't help that, there is (IMO) a bigger issue with this team.
Didn't trading Upshall fix this?

Just saying.

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12-11-2009, 05:32 PM
  #724
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
No play can get developed without proper skating. Whip the team into shape by have them doing a lot of skating and work on positioning, they know how to do the rest.
You keep bag skating a team on off-days (never mind in addition to regular practices), and with the schedule they have over the next two weeks, and you're inviting a lot of fatigue related injuries by the end of that stretch (most likely in your best skaters as well). They're probably going to play worse and worse by the end as well. Like you said, everything starts with skating, and you would be giving your team dead legs.

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12-12-2009, 04:01 PM
  #725
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