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Nazem Kadri vs. Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson

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Old
12-10-2009, 07:35 PM
  #26
RangerRed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Morrison View Post
9 goals in 29 games > 7 goals in 50 games.

i'd call that an improvement. in a low scoring league btw. just imagine if he was playing in the OHL. he'd be ripping it to shreds
I don't necessarily agree with that statement. I'm not trying to dog MPS either, but the transition is simply not as easy as it's made out to be. I recall when some Swedish posters predicted, after a strong Ivan Hlinka last summer, that Gabriel Landeskog would ruin the OHL competition he was set to face. He hasn't and that's not taking anything away from Landeskog, the kid's a great talent and probably my favourite OHLer this season. It's a much more difficult transition for a lot of imports than it's often given credit for and I think Landeskog would even agree with that statement.

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12-10-2009, 07:38 PM
  #27
Jim Morrison
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerRed View Post
I don't necessarily agree with that statement. I'm not trying to dog MPS either, but the transition is simply not as easy as it's made out to be. I recall when some Swedish posters predicted, after a strong Ivan Hlinka last summer, that Gabriel Landeskog would ruin the OHL competition he was set to face. He hasn't and that's not taking anything away from Landeskog, the kid's a great talent and probably my favourite OHLer this season. It's a much more difficult transition for a lot of imports than it's often given credit for and I think Landeskog would even agree with that statement.
Landeskog isn't even eligible for the draft until 2 years. MPS has been playing the SEL for 2 years now and is playing his 3rd, it's a little different. Also MPS' offensive skills are alot higher/better than Landeskog's.

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Old
12-10-2009, 07:43 PM
  #28
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two similarily skilled players, u gotta go with the goal scorer over the playmaker, which is why burke chose kadri over MPS last june, though calling kadri a goal scorer is a bit of a stretch.

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Old
12-10-2009, 07:58 PM
  #29
Kevin Malone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Morrison View Post
Landeskog isn't even eligible for the draft until 2 years. MPS has been playing the SEL for 2 years now and is playing his 3rd, it's a little different. Also MPS' offensive skills are alot higher/better than Landeskog's.
Next year is Landeskogs draft year. This season he is averaging .55ppg in the OHL, when many thought he would run through the competition. Kadri averaged .96ppg in the season before his draft year.

I think it is impossible for anyone to say who the better player is at this point in time. Kadri is averaging .74 GPG this season which is quite impressive. I think Kadri is the better finisher while MPS is the better skater/playmaker. Right now it is a toss up.

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12-10-2009, 07:59 PM
  #30
Jim Morrison
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Belfour View Post
Next year is Landeskogs draft year. This season he is averaging .55ppg in the OHL, when many thought he would run through the competition. Kadri averaged .96ppg in the season before his draft year.

I think it is impossible for anyone to say who the better player is at this point in time. Kadri is averaging .74 GPG this season which is quite impressive. I think Kadri is the better finisher while MPS is the better skater/playmaker. Right now it is a toss up.
No, he's draftable in 2011, not 2010. But this is not about Landeskog, this is about MPS. They're not at all similiar players.

Kadri had 22 points in 62 games in his first OHL year when he was 16-17, same age as Landeskog is now.


Last edited by Jim Morrison: 12-10-2009 at 08:05 PM.
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Old
12-10-2009, 08:10 PM
  #31
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Using Landeskog as a comparison for what kind of numbers MPS would put up in the OHL isnt perfect, MPS has always put up more points that Gabriel (but obviously Landeskog has a skill set that makes him valuable in other areas)

Scoring at age 16 in the J20 SuperElit league:
Pääjärvi-Svensson: 7G 15A 22PTS in 18 games (1.22 PPG)
Landeskog: 7G 14A 21Pts in 31 games (0.677 PPG)

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Old
12-10-2009, 08:15 PM
  #32
Jim Morrison
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 40oz View Post
Using Landeskog as a comparison for what kind of numbers MPS would put up in the OHL isnt perfect, MPS has always put up more points that Gabriel (although Landeskog makes up for it in other areas)

Scoring at age 16 in the J20 SuperElit league:
Pääjärvi-Svensson: 7G 15A 22PTS in 18 games (1.22 PPG)
Landeskog: 7G 14A 21Pts in 31 games (0.677 PPG)
Exactly. I have no idea why they brought Landeskog in to the discussion as he's a completely different player than MPS. Is it because he's a swede or what? MPS has alot higher offensive upside

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12-10-2009, 08:21 PM
  #33
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Physically, Pajaarvi-Svensson is obviously the more talented player. He's bigger, faster, stronger. Defensively MPS is said to be a pretty solid 2 way player. I don't know about Nazem Kadri but I haven't heard anything about him being a great 2 way player so lets call that a wash.

Offensively now...Well, we'll see after Christmas at the WJC who the better offensive player is. That's when we'll know who the better offensive player is though by most peoples standards both guys are having pretty fantastic years in their own leagues(most people knowledgable about the SEL on these boards say MPS is having an excellent year.)

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Old
12-10-2009, 08:24 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
No, you are not obligated to say Kadri. Just because he is your teams prospect, doesn't mean it becomes impossible to be objective and use actual evidence and analysis to create an opinion on who you genuinely think is better.


IMO MSP is and will be the better player. His physical attributes with his offensive attributes are rare. I thought he was the #4 best player in the draft at the time, and still do.
He was quoting an Oiler fan saying he had to pick MSP because of his bias. Leaf fans can't do the same? Haters gotta hate I guess.

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12-10-2009, 08:38 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Morrison View Post
Exactly. I have no idea why they brought Landeskog in to the discussion as he's a completely different player than MPS. Is it because he's a swede or what? MPS has alot higher offensive upside
I brought him up and I did so for two reasons. One of which is the fact, as I pointed out previously, that Gabriel showed great offensive promise at the Ivan Hlinka before the start of the season. The second, I would argue, is that Gabriel's game should have translated better to the OHL than Paajarvi's simply because of the alluded to "other elements" that he brings to the table. Once again, this is not meant to deride MPS, whom I will fully agree is an incredibly gifted player with a high offensive ceiling. I'm simply defending the quality of competition in the OHL.

As an addendum, seeing as two strength of Nazem Kadri's are his skating and stickhandling, who's to say that he wouldn't be just as successful playing on the big ice in Sweden as he has been in Europe? I'd actually argue that since Naz would likely be playing with more skilled linemates in Djurgarden or Frolunda or Timra than he is this season in London, his production would actually increase.

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Old
12-10-2009, 08:44 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Madic View Post
Why not? 9 goals in 29 games is great for his age, but I fail to see why 9 goals is proof that his finishing ability is suddenly of no concern. I was an MPS fan last year and I still questioned it. He's a playmaker, I never saw the big deal.

20 goals in 27 games doesn't impress you at all, eh? Not like the Leafs need goalscorers or anything, right?
SEL > OHL

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Old
12-10-2009, 08:45 PM
  #37
Jim Morrison
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Originally Posted by RangerRed View Post
I brought him up and I did so for two reasons. One of which is the fact, as I pointed out previously, that Gabriel showed great offensive promise at the Ivan Hlinka before the start of the season. The second, I would argue, is that Gabriel's game should have translated better to the OHL than Paajarvi's simply because of the alluded to "other elements" that he brings to the table. Once again, this is not meant to deride MPS, whom I will fully agree is an incredibly gifted player with a high offensive ceiling. I'm simply defending the quality of competition in the OHL.

As an addendum, seeing as two strength of Nazem Kadri's are his skating and stickhandling, who's to say that he wouldn't be just as successful playing on the big ice in Sweden as he has been in Europe? I'd actually argue that since Naz would likely be playing with more skilled linemates in Djurgarden or Frolunda or Timra than he is this season in London, his production would actually increase.
MPS playing style is fast/drive to the net. You're telling that wouldn't translate as good to the OHL as Landeskog's abilities? But still, we shouldn't put too much stock in to his rookie season seeing as even Kadri just put up 22 points in 62 games in his first year at the same age. Sure, Kadri could play good in SEL too but I figure it's easier to adjust to go from playing vs men to playing vs boys on the smaller surface rather than the other way around. I've seen alot of north-americans having trouble adjusting to the larger surface.

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Old
12-10-2009, 09:11 PM
  #38
Kevin Malone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Morrison View Post
No, he's draftable in 2011, not 2010. But this is not about Landeskog, this is about MPS. They're not at all similiar players.

Kadri had 22 points in 62 games in his first OHL year when he was 16-17, same age as Landeskog is now.
No Kadri had 65pts in 68gms when he was 16-17 playing for Kitchener. He scored 22pts when he was 15-16, a full year younger than what Landeskog is now.

Next season is Landeskogs draft year. He is no where near the player that Kadri was when he was his age.

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12-10-2009, 09:22 PM
  #39
Jim Morrison
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Belfour View Post
No Kadri had 65pts in 68gms when he was 16-17 playing for Kitchener. He scored 22pts when he was 15-16, a full year younger than what Landeskog is now.

Next season is Landeskogs draft year. He is no where near the player that Kadri was when he was his age.
Okay, but it still doesn't change the fact that it was his first season. But again, this is about Kadri vs MPS not Kadri vs Landeskog.

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12-10-2009, 09:29 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Belfour View Post
No Kadri had 65pts in 68gms when he was 16-17 playing for Kitchener. He scored 22pts when he was 15-16, a full year younger than what Landeskog is now.

Next season is Landeskogs draft year. He is no where near the player that Kadri was when he was his age.
Nowhere near? Really?. Landeskog is a different type of player than Kadri.

As for MSP and his transition, I don't know if he would be in TOP 5 in scoring, or not it depends on many factors. He would surely dominate though.

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12-11-2009, 01:33 AM
  #41
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Hated the pick at first but quickly embraced the guy

Kadri probably is the most skilled player in the draft not named Hedman or Tavares IMO.Its just the rest he needs to work on.

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12-11-2009, 01:53 AM
  #42
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id probably take msp

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Old
12-11-2009, 03:30 AM
  #43
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mps. he is putting up similar numbers to what kopitar did after his draft year. he is 6'0 and will prob grow another inch and has explosive speed. he has finished well this season playing on a sub-par team. if u watch any of his goal highlights he has an nhl caliber shot. he reminds me of a young hossa with a better defensive game (hossas d is great now but used to be ****). i have not seen much of kadri but was very impressed with him in the preseason and has def turned it on as of late. kadri is going to be an integral part of team canada but i think mps might be one of the most exciting players in the wjc

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12-11-2009, 04:03 AM
  #44
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Im a huge fan of MPS. I wanted LA to draft him this year so bad. But I guess were stuck with B Schenn

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Old
12-11-2009, 04:17 AM
  #45
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MPS = Michalek/Hossa

Kadri = D.Roy/Pavelski

my comparisons what do you guys think?

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Old
12-11-2009, 08:28 AM
  #46
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I like how Leafs fans are pointing out the fact that two gms passed on MPS like that's an indictment on him. A lot of gms passed on Cody Hodgson. A lot of gms passed on Kopitar too.

I can tell you this, when Oilers fans were discussing who to take 10th overall none of us were talking about MPS. Because we all assumed he would be gone by AT LEAST the 7th spot. We were all talking about Glennie, Kulikov, and Ellis. No one was talking about picking Kadri.

Kadri definitely isn't a bad prospect, he's quite good actually but MPS just has too much advantages over him. he's bigger, stronger, faster, and has proved that he can play with men a lot physically older than him. Kadri probably has better hands but MPS is no slack in that area either.

I take MPS every day of the week, and so did a lot of leaf fans until the draft.

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12-11-2009, 08:41 AM
  #47
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MPS is a winger, whereas Kadri plays mostly center, n'est pas? For that reason alone I don't think it's a fair comparison.

I think both are essentially going to become very solid top 6 forwards. What they bring is too different to compare them. We will have to see how they do in the next 3-5 years to see if the Leafs made a mistake in taking Kadri earlier. Even still, a later pick may out produce both of them.

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Old
12-11-2009, 10:55 AM
  #48
Valic
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I'll take MPS.

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Old
12-11-2009, 10:59 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eytinge View Post
I can tell you this, when Oilers fans were discussing who to take 10th overall none of us were talking about MPS. Because we all assumed he would be gone by AT LEAST the 7th spot. We were all talking about Glennie, Kulikov, and Ellis. No one was talking about picking Kadri.
The Leafs board was pretty much the same. Most people really didn't know much about any of the prospects and were just going on draft rankings. It's like that for every team though.

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Old
12-11-2009, 11:09 AM
  #50
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Cowen> both... enough said

but seriously.

I would take Kadri if I were the leafs, because he looks to be a solid player, even if he doesn't reach his potential... and the leafs need Kadri to work out or their-build will last a little bit longer.

MPS is a speedy hit or miss kind of guy, but if he hit's his potential, I tihnk he could become a Michalek, or maybe even a Hossa.

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