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Nazem Kadri vs. Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson

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Old
12-11-2009, 11:54 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by All_blueandwhite View Post
Didn't like the pick at the time, and nothing Kadri has done up to this point has changed my opinion.
Finally an honest leaf fan. Pretty much every leaf fan last year hated the kadri pick.

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Old
12-11-2009, 12:17 PM
  #52
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Going by when they've both played important games, I'd go with Kadri. He elevates him game in the playoffs while MPS was garbage in the WJC. I find it funny that people assume MPS will play better in this years tourney when he was so ordinary last year. Can't wait to see how this turns out.

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12-11-2009, 12:23 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Irish Trash View Post
Going by when they've both played important games, I'd go with Kadri. He elevates him game in the playoffs while MPS was garbage in the WJC. I find it funny that people assume MPS will play better in this years tourney when he was so ordinary last year. Can't wait to see how this turns out.
Your name suits you.

MPS wasn't trash at the WJ's last year. Sure, he didn't fire in the final against Canada, but then nor did anybody on Sweden. Apart from that, he played well in alot of games.

I also have no idea why people base a player only on the world juniors. I couldn't give a crap about the WJ, if a player has an upward and strong development curve in his home league. Judge MPS on his play in the SEL, not at the world juniors, which is such a small small sample size. If you intend to use the WJ's to support Kadri ... well Kadri hasn't even played there yet, so the argument has no cross comparison anyway.

When will people learn that using the world juniors to gauge a players future is futile and misguided.

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Old
12-11-2009, 12:26 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Irish Trash View Post
Going by when they've both played important games, I'd go with Kadri. He elevates him game in the playoffs while MPS was garbage in the WJC. I find it funny that people assume MPS will play better in this years tourney when he was so ordinary last year. Can't wait to see how this turns out.
And when did Kadri play the WJCs again?...

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Old
12-11-2009, 12:27 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post

When will people learn that using the world juniors to gauge a players future is futile and misguided.
Yeah it's silly. And even if you do MPS had 7 points in 6 games which is hardly garbage.

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Old
12-11-2009, 12:29 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post

Your name suits you.

MPS wasn't trash at the WJ's last year. Sure, he didn't fire in the final against Canada, but then nor did anybody on Sweden. Apart from that, he played well in alot of games.

I also have no idea why people base a player only on the world juniors. I couldn't give a crap about the WJ, if a player has an upward and strong development curve in his home league. Judge MPS on his play in the SEL, not at the world juniors, which is such a small small sample size. If you intend to use the WJ's to support Kadri ... well Kadri hasn't even played there yet, so the argument has no cross comparison anyway.

When will people learn that using the world juniors to gauge a players future is futile and misguided.
You have to understand that hardly anyone on HFboards have watched MPS enough (if at all) to make valid judgements about his play. The CHL, OHL in particular, are far more accessible but even still you'll find a lot of people making comments based on limited knowledge of a particular player or people just regurgitating what other people have said.

It's cool to come on this board and read about prospects you've never heard about, but a lot of the time you are just exposed to confirmation bias and groupthink. It gets even worse when the thread is about prospects drafted by teams with big fanbases.

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Old
12-11-2009, 12:30 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Morrison View Post
And when did Kadri play the WJCs again?...
To be fair, Kadri would have been a lock for the WJC's last year had he not broken his jaw.

As for who I'd take between Nazem and MPS - I can't say. I have never seem Paajarvi-Svensson play save for the Gold Medal game in the WJC's. Because of this, I am not able to make a fair assessment, and I am not about to judge him off one game.

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Old
12-11-2009, 12:47 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubey View Post
You have to understand that hardly anyone on HFboards have watched MPS enough (if at all) to make valid judgements about his play. The CHL, OHL in particular, are far more accessible but even still you'll find a lot of people making comments based on limited knowledge of a particular player or people just regurgitating what other people have said.

It's cool to come on this board and read about prospects you've never heard about, but a lot of the time you are just exposed to confirmation bias and groupthink. It gets even worse when the thread is about prospects drafted by teams with big fanbases.
Im from England, i understand your point of view. However, i make an attempt to learn information from those who have seen a player before i decide to make cross comparisons and opinions i feel have any validity.

Whereas Mr Trash sees MPS play likely twice, and decides via this small sample size at a tourney where Kadri doesn't even play (and yes i know Canada is too stacked for most 17 yr olds to make it) and decides Kadri is going to be better.

Im fine with Leaf fans pimping Kadri, and giving a detailed idea of why they think he'll translate to the NHL very well, and if they are knowledgable on MPS, then giving a cross comparison as to why they think he'll translate to the NHL in a superior way to MPS. But you never see that ... you just see illogical ramblings because ZOMG KADRI GOT DRAFTED BY THEM. (Some Edmonton fans do the same with MPS as well btw).

The world juniors cannot be used to compare these two. Kadri has yet to play (through no fault of his own, stiffer competition than MPS has had to face to make it) whilst MPS had one or two bad games, and thus people make a terrible snap judgement on him.

It just seems like most of HFboards is incapable of ever providing an intellectual conversation anymore.

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Old
12-11-2009, 12:59 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Incognito View Post
To be fair, Kadri would have been a lock for the WJC's last year had he not broken his jaw.

As for who I'd take between Nazem and MPS - I can't say. I have never seem Paajarvi-Svensson play save for the Gold Medal game in the WJC's. Because of this, I am not able to make a fair assessment, and I am not about to judge him off one game.
Refreshing to read. Too many people on this board pretend, judge and know for sure just by looking at some statistics or rankings made by other people. Due diligence does not exist on this board it seems.

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Old
12-11-2009, 01:00 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Incognito View Post
To be fair, Kadri would have been a lock for the WJC's last year had he not broken his jaw.

As for who I'd take between Nazem and MPS - I can't say. I have never seem Paajarvi-Svensson play save for the Gold Medal game in the WJC's. Because of this, I am not able to make a fair assessment, and I am not about to judge him off one game.
A Lock ? he's not even a lock this year....wtf ? i still think he's going to make the team but a lock no way

Kadri is a nice prospects with a LOT of skill but has a lot of work to do (he remind me of ribeiro at the same age)...call me a homer but i still prefer Leblanc to kadri but thats not the topic...

as for MSP, i was shocked he dropped to 10th and that guy is going to be deadly on edmonton ice

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Old
12-11-2009, 01:03 PM
  #61
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Bottom line...I'm excited for Canada's camp to start, and then all the teams to arrive, and to move day-by-day to the REAL Christmas Day: Dec 26.

Sunday Dec 20, TSN2 is carrying the Sweden v. Canada game. For a pre-tournament game, that should be a classic.

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Old
12-11-2009, 01:06 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Markov79fan View Post
A Lock ? he's not even a lock this year....wtf ? i still think he's going to make the team but a lock no way

Kadri is a nice prospects with a LOT of skill but has a lot of work to do (he remind me of ribeiro at the same age)...call me a homer but i still prefer Leblanc to kadri but thats not the topic...

as for MSP, i was shocked he dropped to 10th and that guy is going to be deadly on edmonton ice
Shocking..

So i remember when MPS was drafted the knock on him was hands of stone around the net...now all of a sudden he is the next marian hossa? or was it marcel perhaps, dunno, i only seen someone compare him to hossa...

If kadri turns into ribero (post montreal) i would be thrilled

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Old
12-11-2009, 01:18 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by King of Kelvington View Post
Shocking..

So i remember when MPS was drafted the knock on him was hands of stone around the net...now all of a sudden he is the next marian hossa? or was it marcel perhaps, dunno, i only seen someone compare him to hossa...

If kadri turns into ribero (post montreal) i would be thrilled
i just loved Leblanc better and that was WAY before the draft. Kadri has more natural skill (not a lot of prospects have more skill than Kadri imo) but you need more than skill to be an effective nhler. i just love Leblanc game, such a complete players

btw , i dont know who said MSP had hands of stones but clearly he's an idiot

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Old
12-11-2009, 01:19 PM
  #64
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i compared his to hossa because his size and speed and the way he drives to the net is similar. gm's were worried that he didnt finish on enough of his chances...not that he has hands of stone like your suggesting...but when u create 3-4 good scoring chances a game and ur 17 on a bad team that can happen. he has already eclipsed his goal totals from last year with 20 games to go.

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Old
12-11-2009, 01:34 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Incognito View Post
To be fair, Kadri would have been a lock for the WJC's last year had he not broken his jaw.

As for who I'd take between Nazem and MPS - I can't say. I have never seem Paajarvi-Svensson play save for the Gold Medal game in the WJC's. Because of this, I am not able to make a fair assessment, and I am not about to judge him off one game.

Gotta disagree and I'm a Leafs fan. He wasn't even close to a lock last year. For that matter, neither was Duchene (din't make it) or Evander Kane (injury replacement).

I thought Kadri looked great in the pre-season with the Leafs but he hasn't dominated in the OHL this year like I thought he would.

MPS on the other hand had a great start in the SEL but has tailed off recently. (and yes i have watched most of Timra's games this year).

Undoubtedly MPS will play a bigger factor from Sweden at the World Junior's as Kadri could be slotted anywhere from the 1st line to not even on the team. This year there are very few locks. (Hodgson pulling out helped him more than ANYBODY).

I for one vote MPS now and long-term.

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Old
12-11-2009, 01:41 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Markov79fan View Post
i just loved Leblanc better and that was WAY before the draft. Kadri has more natural skill (not a lot of prospects have more skill than Kadri imo) but you need more than skill to be an effective nhler. i just love Leblanc game, such a complete players

btw , i dont know who said MSP had hands of stones but clearly he's an idiot
The knock on him is that he's got no finish, it's been the knock on him for a while now. A lot of dumb NHL scouts based on your expertise.

It's simply unreal how overrated MPS is on these boards but it's the same way every year I suppose. The HF boards seem to come to a consequences on one guy to hype and heaven forbid if he falls below where they think he'll go because he becomes a martyr around here.

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12-11-2009, 01:57 PM
  #67
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The knock on him is that he's got no finish, it's been the knock on him for a while now. A lot of dumb NHL scouts based on your expertise.

It's simply unreal how overrated MPS is on these boards but it's the same way every year I suppose. The HF boards seem to come to a consequences on one guy to hype and heaven forbid if he falls below where they think he'll go because he becomes a martyr around here.
Before Burke passed on him, I remember very little talk of MPS's problems finishing(in fact McGuire, when asked about our chances of drafting MPS, said that if MPS fell to 10 then some GMs didn't do their homework, why would he say that about a kid with known scoring issues?), and it always struck me a bit as Burke PR to start up the Kadri hype-train. Now that MPS has surpassed his goal totals of last year in roughly half the games, it seems that criticism may have been nothing more then Burke hot-air.

I can't wait for the WJC to help settle some of these early debates

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12-11-2009, 02:06 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
Before Burke passed on him, I remember very little talk of MPS's problems finishing(in fact McGuire, when asked about our chances of drafting MPS, said that if MPS fell to 10 then some GMs didn't do their homework, why would he say that about a kid with known scoring issues?), and it always struck me a bit as Burke PR to start up the Kadri hype-train. Now that MPS has surpassed his goal totals of last year in roughly half the games, it seems that criticism may have been nothing more then Burke hot-air.

I can't wait for the WJC to help settle some of these early debates
Neither can I.

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12-11-2009, 02:17 PM
  #69
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I can't wait for the WJC to help settle some of these early debates
You said it.

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Old
12-11-2009, 02:34 PM
  #70
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I'm actually really impressed with the honesty of some of the Leafs fans. Normally this thread would have all the Leafs fans voting for NK and all the Oiler fans voting for MPS. Nice to see we can be subjective. When the Oil drafted MPS at 10th I was literally jumping up and down with joy. I think he's going to be a special player. Maybe not Hossa special but still a decent 1st line LW. And for the record NK is going to be a great NHLer as well.

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Old
12-11-2009, 02:35 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Poor Irish Trash View Post
Well how dare you have a differing opinion.

I'm being called out for my name, like its somthing I didn't choose. It's quite childish and a bit reckless to be so adament about a player whos yet to play in the NHL.
To be fair, you were called out because your comparison made absolutely no sense and you called a player, who was 17 at the time, "garbage" for putting up 7pts in 6 games during the WJC. The name calling was a bit much, but he certainly made a fair point.

Edit: Just to add to this, I remember how Evander Kane was praised and hyped for his fantastic play as a 17 year old, putting up a stellar 2G, 4A in 6 games. Yet, for some reason, people were underwhelmed with MPS, who certainly didn't finish strong, but definitely had some great moments and definitely was more of an offensive catalyst than Kane.


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Old
12-11-2009, 03:11 PM
  #72
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To be fair, you were called out because your comparison made absolutely no sense and you called a player, who was 17 at the time, "garbage" for putting up 7pts in 6 games during the WJC. The name calling was a bit much, but he certainly made a fair point.

Edit: Just to add to this, I remember how Evander Kane was praised and hyped for his fantastic play as a 17 year old, putting up a stellar 2G, 4A in 6 games. Yet, for some reason, people were underwhelmed with MPS, who certainly didn't finish strong, but definitely had some great moments and definitely was more of an offensive catalyst than Kane.
Didn't MSP score both of his goals in the same game... Im pretty sure it was against Latvia, who had terrible goaltending. And both goals were kinda lucky and didnt go in because of his talent but rather because the goalie was awful. I remember thats why scouts were criticizing his ability to finish. And I went to the russia vs. sweden game and MSP was pretty much invisible that game and I watched the goal medal game on tv and he didnt do much in that game aswell, although all of team sweden didnt play that well in the gold medal game. So I wouldnt brag too much about MSP being an offensive catalyst, it was Karlsson and Backlund and Markstrom that carried that team, MSP was just along for the ride. Hopefully he'll have a better tournament this time around.

Kane is definitly the better player compared to MSP, at least up untill the present time.

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Old
12-11-2009, 03:21 PM
  #73
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Edmonton has a great looking future, young forwards-wise. Hemsky, Gagner, Colgiano, Eberle, MPS, Penner, Brule......

Kadri, in Toronto though, is expected to be top-dog offensively along with Kessel. Hopefully he develops into a competent 1st line player in the NHL (atleast).

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Old
12-11-2009, 03:23 PM
  #74
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MPS vs. Kadri. Interesting. WJC will settle this, but there has ALWAYS been MPS homers here on HFboards. At times it almost seems like people claim that MPS is the perfect player. I can't wait to see first hand to evalute them both at the same level.

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12-11-2009, 03:26 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by tyler_sens View Post
Didn't MSP score both of his goals in the same game... Im pretty sure it was against Latvia, who had terrible goaltending. And both goals were kinda lucky and didnt go in because of his talent but rather because the goalie was awful. I remember thats why scouts were criticizing his ability to finish. And I went to the russia vs. sweden game and MSP was pretty much invisible that game and I watched the goal medal game on tv and he didnt do much in that game aswell, although all of team sweden didnt play that well in the gold medal game. So I wouldnt brag too much about MSP being an offensive catalyst, it was Karlsson and Backlund and Markstrom that carried that team, MSP was just along for the ride. Hopefully he'll have a better tournament this time around.


Kane is definitly the better player compared to MSP, at least up untill the present time.
You say this because you have seen them both play quite a bit I hope?

Kane may or may not be the better prospect at this time, we won't really know until they are both in the NHL. These are 18 year old kids we are talking about, we won't get an understanding of what they are truly capable of for another 5 or 6 years. That's besides the point though, I only brought up Kane, because he was praised, despite the fact that he wasn't looked to as a catalyst for his teams offense like MPS was, that's a lot of pressure to put on a 17 year old, and I thought a lot of the time he was trying too hard to do things on his own, something he'll learn maturity and experience.

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